How to convert.....Quickly

[king_neptune]

Originally Posted by dffhogs
http:///forum/post/2867512
Is this the type of sand you are talking about?
http://www.*****.com/product/15439/N...LAID=201379771

any fish store will sell it. plain white beach sand is what i personally would recommend. thats because I have intreast in bottom feeders and sand sifters. small particle sand is easy for them. larger bottom feeders need larger grain.
hears a sand calculator. you can order hear on this site. they have a fair price.
http://www.cyberreefguru.com/calc/sand_cost.html
just input the dimensions of your tank and how deep you want it. probably about 125-150 worth of sand and it can be shipped and arrive at your home mid week...plenty enough time before you get your new tank.
I know you really want to save the live stock. but as long as you brace yourself for the likelihood that you will have casualties you wont be discouraged.
keeping the livestock in a temp holding container is ok as long as your doing weekly water changes to prevent filth and buildup will give them the best possible chance of success(id say %25-30 a week would be ok...anyone else +1 that for me?). keep in mind that you have to do the main tank setup as your priority. you cant evade the fact that your going to have to cycle it properly and start over, so 3-5 weeks plus the 3-4 weeks of a cleanup crew). i know you want to save the livestock,but they can be replaced.
if your doing the best you can then i personally don't see you as cruel. and i don't think many people hear would hold it against you if they died. keeping that in mind...putting them in a rushed tank is cruel and you can lead to a lot of pain and suffering and a prolonged death that way. that to me is shame full.
the only other option would be to have an already precycled tank set up and ready. but since this is spur of the moment, you dont have that option. which is why your best bet IMO is to keep them in temp bins w/heat and water changes for the next 2 months.

 

[king_neptune]

Originally Posted by dffhogs
http:///forum/post/2867406
Thank you for your help.
When I clean the skimmer under the tank, do I take it apart and clean everything with vinegar and water? Does the skimmer look large enough (OK brand)? Rinse the bio balls with water or vinegar and water?
I thing I want to get new sand. Is this ok? If so, what kind and how much does it take for a 210 gal. tank?
you want a skimmer that's at least rated for a 400gallon tank. youle have to look it up. rule of thumb is double your overall water volume and that's the size skimmer you want.
from what ive heard 50/50 mix of viniger and water in a spray bottle. spray...wipe down. as for the equipment....get out a chizzle. ha ha. that stuff looked crusted. id personaly boil alot of the pieces and parts for a good 15-20 min to sterilize them. dont use chemicals dont dont dont!
bioballs can be rinsed clean...but again a vinegar water rinse should be fine.
honestly the bio balls are ok. but consider using live rock in the sump instead. natural filtration is always better than artificial.

 

[mboswell1982]

neptune, u give good advice man, you're learning, you're learnin

 

[king_neptune]

Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2867615
neptune, u give good advice man, you're learning, you're learnin

thanks!! i still reserve the right to a disclaimer

i seriously want anything i say to be double checked by someone more compliant.
but that defiantly makes me feel good^^

 

[mboswell1982]

hey man, check out my thread in the nano section, it may be small, it may be tiny, but, its a TANK, an its alll MINE

 

[dffhogs]

Originally Posted by cveverly
http:///forum/post/2867556
I would set up one of your 55 gallon tanks for a temporary tank. Fill it about 25% - 35% full with fresh saltwater. Add the heater and a couple power heads. Have a spare tank, tub or tote of saltwater made up and heated.
When moving, I would put the fish in a cooler with a battery powered air pump. Skip the bagging. Save enough of the old water to fill your 55 gallon the rest of the way. Use totes or clean garbage cans to keep rock covered in water.
Warm the room up to 78 degrees if you can. This may help reduce heat loss while you are getting everything ready. Add some of the cleanest rock you have to your 55 gallon tank (about 50 pounds if you can). Try to swish the rock in the tote to remove debris before adding to the 55. Then fill the 55 gallon with with the old water.
Now you can start to acclimate the fish. I like the drip method but others may disagree. If you drip acclimate this is where you will need the extra tote of saltwater mentioned above. As the 55 drips into the cooler you will need to refill the 55 with new saltwater. This process can take a couple hours.
Once the fish are acclimated you can move them to the 55. I would not run a long light schedule on the 55. You don't want to give the algae a chance to start again. I would do a 10-20% water chance every week on the 55 until you move everything to the 210.
Make sure you keep a heater and powerhead in the container with the rock.
Now you can start the process of cleaning the 210 and all the accessories that went with it. It looks like there are a few softie corals on the rock. You may want to try and save them.
Once it is clean I would fill it about 75% with clean salt water. Add sand(if you want it), heater, wet/dry filter (if you are going to use it), skimmer and a couple more power heads. It is very important to keep the flow moving across the live rock. That is your primary filter.
Clean the live rock by swishing and scrubbing with a brush. Make sure the brush is clean and has never been used. Give the rock a final rinse in fresh saltwater before adding to the 210. After the rock is added fill the 210 the rest of the way with fresh saltwater.
This may be some what controversial. I would keep the 210 dark for a few weeks. Even cover the tank if you can. The tank is going to cycle and if you leave the lights off it should kill any left over algae. Make sure the powerheads, heater and filters stay running.
Once the tank is ready you can start adding your fish slowly. Maybe one every couple weeks. Add the tang last. Start adding the lights a few hours a day. Building up to your lighting schedule.
As you add fish add a little of the rock from the 55 to the 210. After the last fish is moved you can move the last of the rock to the 210.
Drain the 55 and clean. By then you will be wanting to set it up as a reef tank.

Go outside and sit on the swing and enjoy the nice warm day. Because by this time it will be spring.

If you have an RO filter use it. If not go one or buy some RO or distilled water from the store. One of the keys to success is a good RO/DI filter (in my opinion). Don't use it for your fresh water fish just the saltwater. You can use tap water but you may end up fighting phosphates, algae and bacteria.
As the tank evaporates you will need to top it off with fresh water. Use RO for this also.
Kind of long and I still missed a LOT of steps. I hope others step in and fill the holes and offer other opinions.
You said I may have a few softies on the rocks, you may want to save them...How do I save them?
The tank had 2 powerheads (dont know what kind or size) and they looked to be pointing across the top of the tank. Are two of them enough? Should they be pointed more into the rock?

 

[dffhogs]

Originally Posted by Saltman23
http:///forum/post/2867566
I would do 150 pounds of "dead" aragonite 30lb bags for 25$ (just to make sure were looking at the same one.) and then i would add 2 bags of the arag alive which is 20lbs for 27$. place those 2 bags ontop of the regular sand. Live sand is packaged with actual water and has bacteria that will promote the health of your tank.

I am going to order 4 bags of Carib Seafloor Grade Reef sand @ 40 lbs each. Grain size is 1.0 - 2.0mm. They cost $19.27 each...$77.08 total.
I am also goinig to order 2 bags of Carib Ocean Direct live sand @ 20 lbs each, no grain size listed. They cost $10.74 each...$21.48 total.
Should this do it?

 

[dffhogs]

Originally Posted by vince-1961
http:///forum/post/2867572
DiffHogs, you are in a much better position than I was. In August I bought a set up just like the one you are getting, except mine came with 65 gallon sump, fully operational and stocked with aggressive fish and rocks, but no clean up crew. At the time, I knew ZERO about saltwater tanks. I kept about 100 gallons of the water and as much of the sand as possible (in the same container as the water, which was not the aquarium) and about 1/3 of the rock. I ran out of room, so that was all I could transport.
I set it all up ASAP, which is to say that it took me about 3 or 4 days to get it up and running again. I finished the tank with water from the local ocean. (NOTE: given the cost of gasoline to operate my boat, it would've been cheaper to have made my own saltwater from store-bought salt and regular tap water - - - probably a lot healthier for the tank too.)
Speaking of tap water...don't use it. It has phosphates. Phosphates = coating of ugly brown crud everywhere, a/k/a diatoms. You need to spend $175 and buy a reverse omosis filter, which you can use to make some awesomely good tasting drinking water!
At any rate, do whatever you can to keep as much of the original set up as possible. Get the thing up and running as quickly as possible and put everything back in, but beware. Chances are that the tank will end up re-cycling, meaning that that tank will probably go through a little "mini-cycle" lasting about a month, just not with the huge swings you get with a totally raw set up.
To "cycle" a tank means that in the first month, you have a large rise in ammonia which is fatal to livestock, followed by a large rise in nitrite which is fatal to livestock, followed by a large rise in nitrate, which is also fatal to livestock. Then things start to settle down.
Of ultimate concern is the nitrate. That is the end product of the "cycling." To get rid of nitrate, you need either (or preferably a combination of) a deep sand bed, plants or some infernal contraption to get rid of them. Well, forget the infernal contraption, a/k/a "nitrate remover" by whatever name the current marketing lingo calls it.
Put some Cheato in your sump and add enough sand to your main tank to have at least 3" to 4" worth in a fair portion of the floor surface of your tank or the refugium section of your sump. The cheato feeds off of nitrates. In the deep sand live anaerobic (a/k/a "oxygen-less") bacteria that feed off of nitrates.
I send this to you at 11 PM Sunday. I have no doubt that you are playing with it as I write....

Thanks for the info. I may have found a "fish sitter" which will give me some extra time.

 

[cveverly]

Originally Posted by dffhogs
http:///forum/post/2868096
You said I may have a few softies on the rocks, you may want to save them...How do I save them?
The tank had 2 powerheads (dont know what kind or size) and they looked to be pointing across the top of the tank. Are two of them enough? Should they be pointed more into the rock?
To save the coral you have a couple choices. If the rock they are attached to does not have algae on them you can just add the rock to the tank. If the rock has algae and you do not want it in the tank you can use a hammer and chisel to break the rock. Another option is is to use a razor blade and cut the soft coral at the base. The reattach the coral to a smaller rock. There are many "how to" articles on fraging coral.
My opinion is to have more than two powerheads in a 210. I would add a couple Koralia 4 powerheads. Having one pointed at the surface is a good idea. You will need to play with the locations to get the best flow. I like to point 2 at each other near the top. This creates a turbulence at the surface and underwater. Then use two others to generate flow through the rocks.

 

[dffhogs]

Originally Posted by King_Neptune
http:///forum/post/2867602
any fish store will sell it. plain white beach sand is what i personally would recommend. thats because I have intreast in bottom feeders and sand sifters. small particle sand is easy for them. larger bottom feeders need larger grain.
hears a sand calculator. you can order hear on this site. they have a fair price.
http://www.cyberreefguru.com/calc/sand_cost.html
just input the dimensions of your tank and how deep you want it. probably about 125-150 worth of sand and it can be shipped and arrive at your home mid week...plenty enough time before you get your new tank.
I know you really want to save the live stock. but as long as you brace yourself for the likelihood that you will have casualties you wont be discouraged.
keeping the livestock in a temp holding container is ok as long as your doing weekly water changes to prevent filth and buildup will give them the best possible chance of success(id say %25-30 a week would be ok...anyone else +1 that for me?). keep in mind that you have to do the main tank setup as your priority. you cant evade the fact that your going to have to cycle it properly and start over, so 3-5 weeks plus the 3-4 weeks of a cleanup crew). i know you want to save the livestock,but they can be replaced.
if your doing the best you can then i personally don't see you as cruel. and i don't think many people hear would hold it against you if they died. keeping that in mind...putting them in a rushed tank is cruel and you can lead to a lot of pain and suffering and a prolonged death that way. that to me is shame full.
the only other option would be to have an already precycled tank set up and ready. but since this is spur of the moment, you dont have that option. which is why your best bet IMO is to keep them in temp bins w/heat and water changes for the next 2 months.
I think I found someone to "fish sit", hope so, that would releive some stress.

 

[dffhogs]

Originally Posted by cveverly
http:///forum/post/2868123
To save the coral you have a couple choices. If the rock they are attached to does not have algae on them you can just add the rock to the tank. If the rock has algae and you do not want it in the tank you can use a hammer and chisel to break the rock. Another option is is to use a razor blade and cut the soft coral at the base. The reattach the coral to a smaller rock. There are many "how to" articles on fraging coral.
My opinion is to have more than two powerheads in a 210. I would add a couple Koralia 4 powerheads. Having one pointed at the surface is a good idea. You will need to play with the locations to get the best flow. I like to point 2 at each other near the top. This creates a turbulence at the surface and underwater. Then use two others to generate flow through the rocks.

Thanks, when you say "use the two other to generate flow through the rocks", do I install them about mid way in the tank pointing from each end?

 

[vinnyraptor]

Originally Posted by dffhogs
http:///forum/post/2861861
I have several freshwater tanks and need to convert one or more to saltwater...quickly!
Someone is giving me a 210 gal. tank complete with fish....I will not see it until Sunday so I dont know anything about it. I am not sure if it is a fish only or reef tank, I will find out Sunday.
Problem: I have no place to put a 210 gal. tank. It will take me a few weeks to get the tank set.
Question: Can I convert some of my freshwater tanks to saltwater by next Tuesday or Wednesday? I will convert them back after I get the 210 gal. tank set.
I currently have 2 @ 55 gal. tanks, 3 @ 29 gal. tanks and 4 @ 10 gal. tanks.
TIA for any help....
probably late but heres what i would do.
1. buy 2 new 50+gal plastic garbage cans. and rent a small u-haul truck or cargo van. and pick up some bristle brushes
2. when you get to the tank syphon out enough water to fill one garbage can about halfway. then do the same thing in the other can. take each piece of LR out and scrub it under water in one can getting it as clean as possible. after each piece is clean transfer it to the other can. once first can gets really dirty dump it and refill until all the rock is clean and in 2nd can. try to remove fish and add them to a smaller container as you remove/clean the rock. also be sure to keep the clean rock covered in tank water as you add pieces to the 2nd can.
3. once all fish and rock is out and cleaned drain the tank completely. along the way look for any snails, crabs, shrimp, etc. if any corals are on rock keep submerged and gently clean around them.
4. you should have a can filled with clean LR and covered in tank water. if the sand is really dirty you should probably dicard it except for a few cups. if its not too bad just skim off the top and keep the clean stuff underneath. you can add this to the 2nd can w/ the LR.
5. just get everything home. keep heaters and powerheads in containers with fish and LR.
6. really clean/scrape (window type razor blade scrapers work well) until tank and equipment are like new. find a spot away from sunlight and drafts for the new tank. set it up, make sure its level.
7. make a list of any new equipment/supplies your gonna need. new skimmer? powerheads? test kit? your gonna need enough saltmix for 200 gallons, probably 50 to 100 lbs of sand, new bulbs for your lights, etc... investing in an RO unit is a good idea or you can buy RO water from a LFS or buy distilled water from the grocery store. if you use tap you will have algae problems. it's not the end of the world and can be treated but is a hassle in a new set up. see if the LFS will give you store credit for the fish/inverts and trade them in. if you can keep them in the orginal tank water for a month or more thats fine.
8. might wanna fill it with the garden hose to make sure it didnt develop any leaks in transport and to ensure its stable and level. if you do let it sit overnight then drain.
9. fill about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way with new freshly mixed salt water. put a powerhead in there to really ensure you have a good mix and to oxygenate the water let it sit overnight atleast. add a heater too 78 to 80 degrees (read step 11 )
10. add the LR from the can you can aquascape now or later but you'll probably change the rocks around several times before you like they way they look. add the new/old sand. i would keep atleast a few cups of the old sand because its "live"
11. once all the rock is in top off the tank with more fresh salt water. its a good idea to mix your salt a few days before you need it. the other garbage can can be used for this a powerhead and heater should be used in there too.
12. get all filtration running, powerheads in place, etc..
13. wait for the cycle and enjoy.... you'll have about a month to decide what exactly you want to do with this huge freebie. good luck!

 

[king_neptune]

Originally Posted by dffhogs
http:///forum/post/2868125
I think I found someone to "fish sit", hope so, that would releive some stress.
your in buisness!!! with that stress gone you can now focus on proper cycling and cleanup crew. WAy to GO!!
inside of 2 months youlee be pretty much ready to have the fish put back in since you got a fish sitter.....take all the Live rocks you can and put it in the tank, that will give you the best cycle possible and best success in the future.

 

[saltman23]

Have you thought about a stock list yet?

 

[vince-1961]

You should think about water flow now before you set it up. On a 200 g tank, you'll need, at the very minimum, 2,000 gallons per hour (GPH) water flow. 3,000 or even 4,000 GPH would be better.
Koralia 4's are great for creating water flow. All they are is water fans, to blow water around the inside of the tank. There's a new Mega-Koralia out now that blows something like 1,200 GPH. You might want to check those out.
Also, you could add a "closed loop." A closed loop is a pump that sucks water out of the tank and then pumps it right back into the tank without it ever contacting any air or having any opening in the pipes anywhere. A closed loop is good for creating waves. I used two 1" SCWD's ($90 each) on mine and a ReeFlo Dart ($210) pump, plus the requisite PVC etc. See my thread "Plumbing re-design blog" for a list of mistakes to avoid and for general ideas. https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/336805/plumbing-re-design-blog. Also, Mr. X has a thread where he posted phtos of his closed loop, which utilizes an Ocean Motion 4 (OM4), a device to alternate water flow between 4 pipes. He drilled holes in the back and side walls of his tank to accomodate the pipes, whereas I just hung two 90 degree elbows over the back wall.
My system came with a sump pump that does about 1,000 GPH. I added the closed loop for another 1,500 GPH, then two koralia 4's for another 1,600 GPH (800 GPH each, if I remember). I wish I had more water flow, but it's adequate.
The SCWDs are really quiet and use no electricity. I highly recommend them for creating alternating currents.

 

[vince-1961]

Your budget might be something like this:
-RO filter $175
-clean up crew $250
-salt $50 per bucket. 1 bucket does about 150 gallons.
-koralia 4's $55 each if you shop around; otherwise $80.
-closed loop: pump $200, 2 SCWD's $180, one OM4 $400, PVC glue, etc $100 (assuming you make as many mistakes as I did

).
- cheato $10
- scraper $10
- mag float scraper ?$15?
- razor blade scraper $10
- calcium reactor system $325 (used)
- chiller ($500 used, if you can find a good deal)
- sand - you've already priced it. (I'd recommend only 1 bag of live sand instead of two. All you need to do is seed the tank. The bacteria will multiply on their own.)
-lightbulbs (what kind of lighting are you getting? Metal Halides are great, but expensive. T5 is a better alternative IMHO. I have a 72" 250 watt double ended MH with PC for actinics and moonlights for sale for $550.)
- thermometer $10
- dual stage temperature controller $130
- real time pH monitor ????
- standard kit tests for ammonia, nitritie, nitrate and pH - $30
- then also calcium & alkalinity, copper for hospital/quarantine tank $12 each
- a 10 or 20 gallon quarantine / hospital tank with HOB filter, $75.
- ick medicine (a/k/a copper in a bottle) $10
-
I'm sure I left a bunch of stuff out. Lastly, your water and electricity bills will rise, especially your water bill.
everyone, chime in with all the stuff I failed to list......

 

[saltman23]

I doubt you will need a chiller or a dual stage temperature controller or calcium reactor and may not need a 250$ cleaning crew. All depends on what kind of fish your doing.

 

[dffhogs]

Originally Posted by Saltman23
http:///forum/post/2868710
Have you thought about a stock list yet?
I have not! Any sugestions would be great.

 

[dffhogs]

Originally Posted by vince-1961
http:///forum/post/2868852
Your budget might be something like this:
-RO filter $175
-clean up crew $250
-salt $50 per bucket. 1 bucket does about 150 gallons.
-koralia 4's $55 each if you shop around; otherwise $80.
-closed loop: pump $200, 2 SCWD's $180, one OM4 $400, PVC glue, etc $100 (assuming you make as many mistakes as I did

).
- cheato $10
- scraper $10
- mag float scraper ?$15?
- razor blade scraper $10
- calcium reactor system $325 (used)
- chiller ($500 used, if you can find a good deal)
- sand - you've already priced it. (I'd recommend only 1 bag of live sand instead of two. All you need to do is seed the tank. The bacteria will multiply on their own.)
-lightbulbs (what kind of lighting are you getting? Metal Halides are great, but expensive. T5 is a better alternative IMHO. I have a 72" 250 watt double ended MH with PC for actinics and moonlights for sale for $550.)
- thermometer $10
- dual stage temperature controller $130
- real time pH monitor ????
- standard kit tests for ammonia, nitritie, nitrate and pH - $30
- then also calcium & alkalinity, copper for hospital/quarantine tank $12 each
- a 10 or 20 gallon quarantine / hospital tank with HOB filter, $75.
- ick medicine (a/k/a copper in a bottle) $10
-
I'm sure I left a bunch of stuff out. Lastly, your water and electricity bills will rise, especially your water bill.
everyone, chime in with all the stuff I failed to list......

What is involved in a 10 gallon quarantine tank? Can I use some of the sand and rock from the 210g tank?
I was thinking:
10 gal. tank
Marineland bio wheel 100 (up to 20 gal.)
maxi jet 106 powerhead
50w heater
What kind of lights?

 

[cveverly]

Originally Posted by dffhogs
http:///forum/post/2869388
What is involved in a 10 gallon quarantine tank? Can I use some of the sand and rock from the 210g tank?
I was thinking:
10 gal. tank
Marineland bio wheel 100 (up to 20 gal.)
maxi jet 106 powerhead
50w heater
What kind of lights?

I might consider a 20 gallon quarantine tank. A small bio wheel filter is ok. I like the AquaClear because they use a foam bio filter. You can have the foam in your sump until you are ready to use it. That way it will be loaded with good bacteria. When you are done just clean the filter good and put the sponge part back in the sump. Small power head is good to keep the bottom clean. You don't want to have to much flow and stress the fish. The lights don't matter much. Anything you have will work. Even a clamp light will work. Skip the sand but you can add some sections of PVC pipe for the fish to hide.
What are you going to do with the 210. If it is FOWLR (fish only with live rock) it will be cheaper and easier to get started. In my opinion sand is a determent because of the waste it traps. If you do use sand I would use just a thin layer. My tanks are bare bottom. I never have any waste with the exception of what gets trapped in the rock. You can use a turkey baster to blow the rocks off and let the sump filter sock and skimmer pull out the debris.
I would invest in a good skimmer. Since you have a sump look into the MSX or Reef Octopus skimmers. If your tank is not overstocked the Reef Octopus Extreme 200 would be a good choice. There are better skimmers but these are great for the money.
In addition to that get a couple more power heads. Like mentioned above the K4 is a good choice. Personally I would get 4. Point two at the live rock so water move through the rock. The other two at opposite side of the tank pointed at each other.
With FOWLR you do not need the high power lights or wave systems.
If you want to do a reef tank they require more lighting, better filter/skimmer and would benefit from wave makers.