How to Lower Calcium?

[flydan]

Hey,
Does anyone know how to lower calcium levels? It seems odd, but I can't get my calcium levels below 800ppm!
Just a little history: I have a 55gal reef that has been doing very well. I dose with Kents pH Buffer, Calcium, Iodine, and Coral-vite. I had some unexplained deaths to all my hermits, emerald crabs and 2 pair of shrimp. (Cleaner and Peppermint) I tested for all the usual stuff like sg, Ni, Na, Am and pH and the only thing out of wack was my pH was a little low at 7.8. Then I tested for calcium and holy cow! It was 880! I did a 20% water change right away and it went to 840. I waited a day and did another 20% water change and it's at 820. At this rate it will take several very large water changes to get back to any where near normal.
BTW, I haven't dosed with calcium for over a week now.
I was wondering if it would help to put charcoal in my HOT filter? I don't have any medium in there now since I just use it for surface water movement. I've never heard of that effecting Ca levels but I don't know what else to do. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Dan'l

 

[ironreef]

try testing it again. use 880 would snowstorm. But keep the w/c. I suggest testing your make up water just to test the kit your using. usually make up water is aroung 350ppm
[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Ironreef ]

 

[seabass]

what test kit are you using, how are you using it?

 

[seabass]

iron reef we posted at the same time lol

 

[ironreef]

No i posted before you

 

[big tuna]

i would stop adding cal. and check your alk, a ph of 7.8 is low, are you adding anything to get your ph up. I add seachem marine buffer and it maintains it at 8.3. My cal was high once and i rode it out.i wouldn't do so many water changes. i've learned that you need patience. it just will take so time.

 

[q]

Another vote for having a snow storm. Try retesting or buying another kit.

 

[fshhub]

if it really is 800+, idon't know about reeefs, but with pools: the only way to get cal downis to change the water, it cannot be removed, the only thing with reefs, is that you do have some life in there that will use it(unfortunately it is very slowly), keep on changing, but check your tester, take it and a sample to your lfs, have them test your water, then test their water with your kit and theirs, and compare readings, I know ours would do this for us, this will tell you if your readings are accurate or if you have a kit which is not testing properly without having to buy one first
ALSO, if this is a fw calcium test kit you will probably get weird readings anyhow
HTH

 

[kris walker]

Yes, PLEASE get this tested by another source like your lfs. I am very interested in the results. I have been very curious as to whether or not pH plays a role in the solubility of Ca. Others have reported very high Ca levels, which traditionally most have been interpreting as inaccurate Ca test kits.
cheers,
sam

 

[nm reef]

Right away two potential problems or potential problems come to mind...
Three factors play a part in a well maintained/balanced system...ph@8.3...calcium @ 400-450 ppm...alkalinity @ 2.8-3.5 meg/l...its been my experience that any one of these levels out of wack can and will throw the other two off also...so test all three and try to regain a balance
second it may very well be a bad or miss used test...normally calcium will precipitate (sort of like a snow storm) at levels above 600 ppm...take a sample to a trusted LFS and have them test then compare results.......
hope some of this helps ya a bit

 

[javajoe]

My 2 cents....
I have had a high calcium content about 950ppm with no snowstorm. this was associated with a low ph as well 7.8.
I believe you can have high calcium levels if your ph is lower. i used a redsea kit and a saltifert- had my LFS test too- same results with each kit
I was using DI water, and not adding anything to increase the ph... i started adding a buffer, and my ph went up to 8.3 eventually, and my calcium level went down to 450ppm.
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Javajoe ]

 

[kris walker]

Javajoe, thanks so much for this information. It has been puzzling me for some time now.
sam

 

[ironreef]

if calcium is too high it will precicipate out of the water = not possible. like putting oil in the water. Hobby test kits are cheap some are really not accurate and if old they may not even work. Go ask a chemist some things just aren't possible

 

[big tuna]

your system should use cal. if it didn't, why would you add supplement cal??? I do agree with the ph and alk playing a factor. i'd get those balanced and see whats up with the cal.

 

[flydan]

Hey,
Thanks for all the replies. I'm using a Hagen Ca test kit. Brand new out of the box. I followed directions to the "t" adding one drop at a time until it changed from pink to violet and then multiplied number of drops by 20. I've tested it three times now and never gotten a reading below 800. FWIW, when I add Kents pH Buffer I have been getting little snow storms from it when it hits the water. If I drip it in slowly of course this doesn't happen, but if a drop in a cap full, poof!
Thanks again for all the replies. Still don't know how I'm going to get it too come down. My corals: elegance, flowerpot, finger leather, shrooms and polyps seem to like it. Weird.
Dan'l

 

[kris walker]

Hey FlyDan,
If you are adding Kent's pH buffer, and it is causing a snowstorm where you poor it, what is probably happening is that your pH or CO3 (alkalinity) is "locally" going up where you are adding this buffer. As a result, this is locally lowering the solubility threshold, yielding a local snowstorm. It sounds to me that if you somehow raise the pH and/or alk of your entire tank to 8.3, your Ca will snowstorm until your Ca concentration is around 550-600 ppm (the threshold reported by many).
sam

 

[fishfood]

About the snowstorm issue. My tank did it about 5 days ago. I had been trying to get the pH and alk up by using seachem sea buffer. It had dropped to 7.8 for pH and 1.0 for alk. I was adding kalk to the tank and all of a sudden i couldn't see an inch into the tank. It took a day to settle and everything was cover in the tank. I hadn't added Kalk for about a week and a half prior. I'm about to go check the calcium level in the tank.

 

[flydan]

Hey,
That was my guess as well. That by raising the pH I was causing the calcium to convert into a solid form. Still at a loss as to how to lower the calcium level. I could just start overdosing the pH Buffer but will that cause more damage than the high calcium? I'm still very suprised that the calcium isn't being used up and lowering naturally. It's been over a week now and it's still around 800. sigh....
Dan'l

 

[ironreef]

I would try another test kit. hagons I don't like Sailfort is a good test kit. fast test is fair. But any test kit straight out of the box still can be bad. They have a shelf life= the chemicals. Go to a lfs and let them test with a different kit. But hagons still shouldn't be that off unlessit was bad?? I still would try another test kit. and test you makeup water. It should read to much more than 350ppm or closein that area.

 

[kris walker]

Hi FlyDan,
I think we are talking past each other. By raising the pH of your tank by using that pH buffer you were using before, I think that will cause a major snowstorm. But the snowstorm will *lower* the Ca in your tank because that snow is probabably CaCO3, not the solid form of Ca. Ca in solid form is very, very unstable as I understand. In fact, if you wanted to, you could take a chunk of solid calcium, throw it into a lake, and it will explode on contact with the water, or so I've heard.
Anyway, if you want to be safe, why don't you try taking a half gallon of your tank water into a separate container, then add a little of the pH buffer into it. Stir. Then test the Ca level after several minutes. I bet it will fall considerably.
I agree with Ironreef that test kits can be bad. But IMO, too many people have come forth and reported high values of Calcium. Even more important than that, Javajoe has said that he used a RedSea and a Saltifert kit, and get his lfs to test his water, and it was 950ppm. We can either call Javajoe a liar, or give him and everyone else who has reported high levels of Ca the benefit of the doubt. I choose the latter.
sam