How to remove UGF safely

[rockies]

I have a 50 gallon setup with sand (2 inches), CC (2 inches) an UGF. I also have powerheads on 2 uplift tubes for the UGF and a hangon filter for mechanical (& biological) filtration. I've learned from several sources that my "The Complete Aquarium" book was misleading when it recommended the UGF and it seems like good advice to remove it.
My question is how to remove it safely. The tank is only a week old and I've had 2 tomato clowns for 5 days. (NTS I suppose). So I'm starting to get some ammonia, but not a lot.
My plan is to do a water change (turns out the salt I used was not the best I could have, now I'm going to use Instant Ocean, instead of Red Sea) and remove the UGF at that time. I'll just keep the powerheads mounted to the glass to provide water movement and I'd like to simply keep the substrate (CC and sand) that I have now.
I figure I'll just place the 2 tomato clowns in a holding bowl while I do the messy work to pull up the UGF. The water will be incredibly cloudy after this (it was when I first added water to the tank even after rinsing the sand multiple times). The filter does a pretty good job filtering out the water in a few hours.
Is there a better way to accomplish this?
Thanks,
Allen

 

[marvida]

Your tanks been set up for 1 week & there are already fish in there? It sounds like you may have been given bad advice all the way around. First off, you need to find the fish a new home. Can you take them back? Do you know any one else in the hobby that will take them? Second thing, I use Red Sea & have had no problems. Once the fish are gone you can make whatever changes you want. Get to know the search function of this board and start your research. It will be several weeks before you will want to add fish, so you have time.
Good Luck and WELCOME to the board!
Ken

 

[cprdnick]

I agree about taking the fish back. If you will read up on 'plenums' you will find that they are beneficial to your nitrification process. When you get things straightened out, try this. From what I understand, the plenum is nothing more than an UGF. To properly set up a plenum, you attach a tube to a hole in the top of the plenum, attatch a PH and plug her in. Once your ammonia and nitrates have zipped to 0, remove the PH and tube and cover the hole. This provides a dead space of low oxygen water, which will help in the last part of the nitrification process.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[scotts]

I bumped up a thread for you that might help you.
Scott

 

[lesleybird]

Gee, Didn't that book tell you to cycle your tank first? I would get another book! I can forgive it for saying to use the UGF if it is an old book, but what about the cycle? Did the book not meniton it? Or did you ignore it? These fish cannot tolerate any amonia. If the fish store will not take the fish back you better buy a bottle of cycle bacteria, buy some fully curred live rock at your LFS and place it in the tank, do partial water changes of at least 20 percent every 5 days and pray a lot! You might be ok if you do all this and keep the bioload low with just these two fish if you don't over feed....but they may not make it. I have done uncycled tanks and kept the fish alive, but it is a real challenge. I used live sand also when I did this. If you can buy at least about 35 pounds of live rock that has no die off on it from your LFS this will help to keep the amonia and nitrites down. Smell it first, if it has a bad odor it is not fully curred. Live rock has the good bacteria cultures all over it and in the pores of it.
Good luck, Hope it works out. Lesley

 

[rockies]

I'll admit it: I was impatient and I screwed up. All the material I have talk about the 'cycle', but also indicated that hardy fish like a damsel or clownfish could get the cycle going. Sounds like that was bad advice. I thought I was patient, but I guess I have some learning to do regarding that virtuous trait.
As for the UGF, the recommendation was to place a barrier between the sand and the substrate underneatch to keep the waste (& sand) on top of the UGF. I skipped the barrier since I couldn't find one at any of the places I visited thinking that I would just vacuum regularly anyway. In retrospect, perhaps the barrier would have made the UGF a safe option.
In any case I was stuck with removal of the UGF since I didn't have the barrier. I removed it last night. After placing the fish in a secondary tank, I removed the UGF. After vacuuming and getting rid of around 50% of the water, it was extremely cloudy. This occured when I first set up the tank, but the UGF did a really great job of getting rid of the clouds. Now there's no UGF and the hang on filter (TetraTec Pro II 330) has all the responsibility for filtration mechanical filtration.
The cloudiness is still there this morning. I changed 2 of the four filter pads in the filter box thinking they might be saturated from the previous work they'd done.
Does anyone else have trouble with cloudy water after vacuuming or rearranging rocks? Is there any way to accelerate the removal of the clouds?
Allen

 

[scotts]

First of all, Welcome to the board.

I missed this on my first post.
Now for some good news and some bad news. (Remember I am no expert, just have read alot on this board.) Congratulations on getting rid of the UGF. They are not real popular on this board. Now the bad news. A combination of sand and CC is also not real popular on this board. They are both used, but work in two different ways. The CC will trap the debris and needs to be vacuumed to get it out. You do not want to vacuum the sand because then you get rid of all of the good bugs that are in there. Most people go with the sand and many people have posted here asking how to change over from CC to LS. Now might be a good time to filter the CC out of the sand. I think you could pour it through something like a window screen and get the CC out of the sand. This is just my opinion, but I am just passing on what I have read here on this board.
Now onto your question about the cloudiness. It will settle down, just give it time.
If you are concerned about the time all of this will take you might be able to take your fish back to your lfs where you got them and have them hold them for you for awhile. This has been done before.
Now if you don't mind a word of advice. Read all that you can on this board. I had a tank for 6 months, then I found this board. I learned more this board in the first 3 months than I had in the 6 months I had my tank.
Sorry if I sound preachy, just trying to help.
Scott

 

[rockies]

Thanks for the welcome and don't worry about being preachy. I deserve it.
I'll investigate the merits of CC vs. sand. It might easier to just let the vaccum take up the sand and leave the CC rather than filter via a screen as you suggested. I don't mind vaccuming.
Anyway, thanks for helping this newbie. I'll report back after I get things back on track.
Allen

 

[scotts]

You can search this board about the merits of CC and LS. Go to the top of these pages and click on the search function. Once again I would recommend now is the time to do a change to LS. Why do you ask? Well a CC will trap the debris and collect it, then it will eventually break down and cause nitrates in your tank. Sand has bugs and stuff in it that breaks down the debris in your tank and reduces the nitrates in your tank. That is why they call it live sand. BTW what kind of sand do you have in your tank? Also how much rock?
At least that is what I have read that goes on. If an idiot like me can keep a tank with LS I think almost anyone can.
Scott

 

[rockies]

Well, taking much advice from this board and the LFS, I've now done the following:
1) Removed my UGF, CC and dirty sand. (I rinsed the sand before putting in the tank, but being new at this, I was woefully inadequate).
2) 40lbs of live rock. So far I've seen the following organisms: 4 or 5 spider-like stars, 1 bug (black, looks like a small beetle).
3) I now have a little LS (Arag-live from CaribSea), but only a little at the advice of LFS.
4) I've done a complete water change to get rid of the suspended sediment from the unrinsed sand.
5) 16 capfuls of 'Cycle' starter product.
The water is completely clear and the levels are currently:
pH 8.2, Alk 300, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10, Temp 80F, SG 1.020, Ammonia 0.1
The LFS said that there's no need to wait weeks since the LS and living rock have the cycle going already. Is this true? Can I add my tomato clowns back in? (They've been in a 10gal until I get the 50gal back up.)
Thanks,
Allen

 

[rockies]

bump

 

[theplowking]

I replaced my UG and CC in my 55 gallon two months ago. This is an overview of what I did:
Purchased a 32 gallon trash can
Prepared 20 gallons of RO salt water two days before task in another container.
Filled two 5 gallon buckets with water from tank. Placed Inverts in one and Fish in another. Placed an airstone, power head and heater in the buckets.
Remove all heaters, powerheads, skimmer and filters.
Fill trash can with 30 gallons of water from tank. Place all Live Rock
80lbs in trash can
Drain the rest of water from the tank.
Remove UG and CC. Placed CC in large bucket. Searched for sails and hermits I may have missed.
Add 40lbs of Carib sand and 20lbs of live sand.
Add 20 gallons of fresh RO salt water.
Add Live Rock
Add remaining water from trash can to top off
Add Filters, Powerheads, heaters and skimmer.Turn on
After tank tank settles down in about 4 hours add back
Inverts and fish.
Results no loss of livestock. Water tests have been normal.

 

[rockies]

Things continue to go well with the new tank.
Live things: 2 tomato clowns continue to do well. Peppermint shrimp for aptasia was added a few days ago. Crab is reclusive, 1 bristle-worm (that I've seen), a few small snails and a bunch of brittle stars and a few very small shrimp-like (clear/white) bugs.
Dark brown algae formed in the last week (diatoms).
I've done water changes (& vacuumed the sand), filter replacement (1/2 the pads) and monitored Temp, SG, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH & Alkalinity.
Temp = 78F
SG = 1.023
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5-15
pH = 8.2
Alkalinity = 120 - 300 (started as 300, now down to 120, but pH is steady)
I'm continuing to watch things closely (& pray) to make sure I don't lose any livestock. So far, so good, thanks to the advice on this board.
and all are within normal levels. Water clarity is great.

 

[rockies]

I've been using tapwater (treated to remove chlorine) and will change to RO asap in order to reduce the diatoms. I've also vacuumed to clear up the sand. I have no cleaning crew, but it is probably a good idea to get one after things settle down some.

 

[scotts]

R, Glad to hear that things are working out for you. It sounds like your tank went through a mini cycle and is coming along. It is normal for tanks when the cycle to get a brown algae, and this algae should go away.
However I would recommend against vacuuming the sand. Sure the sand will look better, but you are sucking out the good bugs that make LS work. What I did to help my tank was to order a clean up crew from this site. The clean up crew consists of hermit crabs and a conch. The hermit crabs and the conch not only eat the stuff on the sand, they also stir it up to make it look better.
IMO. Something to think about in the future.
It sure sounds like you have done some research .
Scott

 

[rockies]

Yes, I have done a ton of research. I'm not afraid to admit I made some huge mistakes and I'm blessed with a wife that doesn't mind sending me (back) to the store to fix (buy) things.
Scott, your advice on not vacuuming and the cleaning crew have been taken already. I've stopped the frequent water changes and am letting the diatoms & cleaning crew work it out. I'm now on a more normal schedule of water changes (planning on 10-20% every 2 weeks or so).
Since the last report, I've added a cleaning crew (10 small blue-legged hermit crabs, 10 astrea snails, 1 black-banded serpent star), a single yellow-tail blue damsel and 20 more lbs cured LR (total of 60 now).
I also have a 10 gal quarantine tank getting started on the cycle to protect the investment in the display tank.
So, yeah, I'm pretty happy with the conditions at this stage and I think that any problems I have from this point on would be the result of other problems, not the initial setup & removal of the UGF.
Thanks to all for your input.

 

[thomas712]

Whoo-ah., how did I miss this thread :notsure:
Sounds like you were taken care of by Scotts and Others, and went through quite a learning experinece!
I think eveyone knows how much I hate UGF's for saltwater applications. Just can't stand them. You will be much better off without it.
You will of course go through the new algea blooms, but these will get better now that you are switching over to the RO water.
Ive ordered full cleanup crews from this site too and they are healthy, packed really well, and awesome.
I have two fighting conches, and they do a great job on the sandbed in my 90 gal. Heres a clue - cerith snails they do it all, add some asteria or turbo snails and your scarlet hermit crabs and your good to go.
Always glad to hear from those that have made the switch from UGF's and CC to sand and a more healthy tank. Love the updates. It won't be too long and someone else will need the help and you'll be right there telling them how you did yours.
Any chance for pics of your tank? before and afters?
Good luck and keep us posted
Thomas

 

[scotts]

R,
Looks like you are doing good. If Thomas says that you are on the right path then you definitely are on the right path. One more word of warning (Here I go sounding preachy again.) You will invetibaly develop problems in your tank. I know that I had my share of problems. Every time that I went to the lfs they always had a $20 bottle of something to add to the tank to take care of the problem. Then I found this board, learned much more about saltwater tanks and stopped adding the chemicals. In time all of my problems went away. I hate to think about how much money I poured into my tank. Literally.
You will still need to add some stuff like Calcium and other essential ingrediants. However I would recommend against anything that will cure any problems you have in your tank.
One other thing (Preachy again) research everything before you buy it. I impulse bought a beautiful fish. Later I found out that my beautiful 3" fish would change coloration and grow to about 18" long. Way too big for my 60 gallon tank. Luckily I was able to donate it to a local aquarium.
Once again it sounds like you are doing good.
Scott

 

[rockies]

I don't really have a good picture of the old tank. Here's the new one though: