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55ggramma
Guest
i want to put a 20g sump or refugium underneath my 75 gallon display. How do i know what to use for a return pump. I'm not sure how to size it so the return would match with the flow coming into the sump/refugium.
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55ggramma
Guest
I might be lacking information if so i'd add any information you need from me to help figure it out
florida joe
Well-Known Member
return must always be LESS then overflow
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55ggramma
Guest
more suck than blow wouldn't overfill my sump?
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55ggramma
Guest
Ok so would i then have to be always make sure to keep my tank at a precise level everyday and watch for any evaporation?
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1guyDude http:///t/390791/how-to-size-my-return-pump#post_3462440
No Ur overflow will only be taking in water from a certain level....this level is maintained with the water from the sump. It's a continues cycle. Hths
This is not exactly correct. Lest say your overflow is rated at 200 gph and your return is rated at 150 gph now with no other restrictions you are only going to return 150 g to your sump and this should not present a overflow problem in your DT. BUT if your overflow is rated at 200gph and your return is rated at 200 gph and you have a restriction in returning water back to your sump you run the risk of overflowing your DT or burning out your return pump by running your sump dry
Originally Posted by 1guyDude http:///t/390791/how-to-size-my-return-pump#post_3462440
No Ur overflow will only be taking in water from a certain level....this level is maintained with the water from the sump. It's a continues cycle. Hths
This is not exactly correct. Lest say your overflow is rated at 200 gph and your return is rated at 150 gph now with no other restrictions you are only going to return 150 g to your sump and this should not present a overflow problem in your DT. BUT if your overflow is rated at 200gph and your return is rated at 200 gph and you have a restriction in returning water back to your sump you run the risk of overflowing your DT or burning out your return pump by running your sump dry
5
55ggramma
Guest
are those numbers i should be aiming for? 200 in and 150 out? or should i bee looking bigger? what if i used a
PF-300
6" x 3" x 10" H
Up to 75 gallons
Single
300 gph
It is an eshopps overflow box and those are the specs
PF-300
6" x 3" x 10" H
Up to 75 gallons
Single
300 gph
It is an eshopps overflow box and those are the specs
2quills
Well-Known Member
Yep, the overflow inside of your display tank will keep the water level at the same height. Basically, the water level in your display tank doesn't fluctuate. The place where you see the effects of water evaporation are going to be in the return chamber of your sump. So you need to keep up with the evaporation on a regular basis so that the water level in the sump doesn't drop to the point where your pump runs dry.
And the other guys are correct on how the cycle works. Pump, pumps X amount of gallons into the tank and that same X amount of gallons simply drains out and falls back to the sump.
Floods can be caused either by restrictions in the drain line, having a return pump that is too large from the amount of water your overflow can handle or back siphoning occurring when the return pump is shut off, if the ends of your return lines are submerged under the water this will cause water to drain backwards from the return line and into the sump. The safest way to avoid this is to set the outputs of your returns near the surface of the water. That way in the event of a power outage or you shut the return pump off the water level in the tank doesn't have far to drop before air can enter into the openings of your return outputs which will cut off/stop the back siphoning from continuing to drain. You'll have to adjust this yourself once you build your sump and get it running.
Edit: you posted before I got a chance. If you have an Eshopps that can handle 300g per hour then you need a pump that pushes slightly less then that. Like a 250gph pump. That being said...I think your overflow is a little too small for your system.
And the other guys are correct on how the cycle works. Pump, pumps X amount of gallons into the tank and that same X amount of gallons simply drains out and falls back to the sump.
Floods can be caused either by restrictions in the drain line, having a return pump that is too large from the amount of water your overflow can handle or back siphoning occurring when the return pump is shut off, if the ends of your return lines are submerged under the water this will cause water to drain backwards from the return line and into the sump. The safest way to avoid this is to set the outputs of your returns near the surface of the water. That way in the event of a power outage or you shut the return pump off the water level in the tank doesn't have far to drop before air can enter into the openings of your return outputs which will cut off/stop the back siphoning from continuing to drain. You'll have to adjust this yourself once you build your sump and get it running.
Edit: you posted before I got a chance. If you have an Eshopps that can handle 300g per hour then you need a pump that pushes slightly less then that. Like a 250gph pump. That being said...I think your overflow is a little too small for your system.
5
55ggramma
Guest
Can you reccommend another overflow that would be better suited? the next size up for eshopps is 800gph or is that sized good?
Also if i did get an 800gph overflow how would account for the 4 feet up into the DT when choosing my return pump
Also if i did get an 800gph overflow how would account for the 4 feet up into the DT when choosing my return pump
5
55ggramma
Guest
would i need one that big though if i have another 750 gph circulation pump in the tank already
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55ggramma http:///t/390791/how-to-size-my-return-pump#post_3462460
Can you reccommend another overflow that would be better suited? the next size up for eshopps is 800gph or is that sized good?
Also if i did get an 800gph overflow how would account for the 4 feet up into the DT when choosing my return pump
I'm thinking along the lines of the 800gph overflow with like an Eheim Compact 3000 pump for that tank. Or something right around that neighborhood.
Factoring head loss for every pump is near impossible. Results will actually very from one manufacturer to another regardless of the information posted about their performance. There's always going to be variances. The best we can do is get as close as we can by attempting to make educated assumptions. Things to consider about factoring head height are things like elbows on your return plumbing. Anything that adds resistance will cut the efficiency of the water flow down. As a general rule a lot of folks add an extra foot of height to their measurements for any 90 degree elbow that is used on your return plumbing. If you're splitting your return into separate lines then it gets more complicated but not by much.
So I'd figure your measurement of 4ft to be more like at least 5 or 6 feet depending on how many elbows you have. It could be more for all I know right now since you haven't built it yet. But you get the idea.
For that kind of height you can generally count on a loss of about 30% (or so) of flow loss from a given pump depending on which pump you go with.
Originally Posted by 55ggramma http:///t/390791/how-to-size-my-return-pump#post_3462460
Can you reccommend another overflow that would be better suited? the next size up for eshopps is 800gph or is that sized good?
Also if i did get an 800gph overflow how would account for the 4 feet up into the DT when choosing my return pump
I'm thinking along the lines of the 800gph overflow with like an Eheim Compact 3000 pump for that tank. Or something right around that neighborhood.
Factoring head loss for every pump is near impossible. Results will actually very from one manufacturer to another regardless of the information posted about their performance. There's always going to be variances. The best we can do is get as close as we can by attempting to make educated assumptions. Things to consider about factoring head height are things like elbows on your return plumbing. Anything that adds resistance will cut the efficiency of the water flow down. As a general rule a lot of folks add an extra foot of height to their measurements for any 90 degree elbow that is used on your return plumbing. If you're splitting your return into separate lines then it gets more complicated but not by much.
So I'd figure your measurement of 4ft to be more like at least 5 or 6 feet depending on how many elbows you have. It could be more for all I know right now since you haven't built it yet. But you get the idea.
For that kind of height you can generally count on a loss of about 30% (or so) of flow loss from a given pump depending on which pump you go with.
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55ggramma
Guest
Ok so say i grab the 800gph overhang and the Eheim compact 3000. What size piping and i looking to get? Can i just use flexible hose and use a U-shaped tube as the return?
5
55ggramma
Guest
Also thanks so much for the help so far i understand everything so much more now
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55ggramma http:///t/390791/how-to-size-my-return-pump#post_3462486
Ok so say i grab the 800gph overhang and the Eheim compact 3000. What size piping and i looking to get? Can i just use flexible hose and use a U-shaped tube as the return?
I believe you're looking at 3/4" typically for most return pumps that size. Drain size just depends on which overflow you decide to get, I think it's probably 1" drain tube or pipe for that overflow but I haven't double checked.
Originally Posted by 55ggramma http:///t/390791/how-to-size-my-return-pump#post_3462486
Ok so say i grab the 800gph overhang and the Eheim compact 3000. What size piping and i looking to get? Can i just use flexible hose and use a U-shaped tube as the return?
I believe you're looking at 3/4" typically for most return pumps that size. Drain size just depends on which overflow you decide to get, I think it's probably 1" drain tube or pipe for that overflow but I haven't double checked.
5
55ggramma
Guest
Does a sump/Refugium replace a mechanical filter?