Hyposalinity ?

[hur]

I got blue regal tang about a month ago. Ever since she is on a constant cycle of ick. My water parameter are good. I started doing hypo, but since I did not have a refractometer, I went down to 1.012 using my plastic hydrometer. Ick cleared up within a day, 5 days later it came back, now I got the refractometer, and brought down the salt to 1.009 is it possible for ick to get assimilated to lower salt levels and get resistant.
What I am trying to say is that my salt level was at 1.012 for five days before it went down to 1.009. What I have read is bring the salt level down as fast as possible to be affective.
HUR

 

[nicetry]

What you saw the first time was simply the life cycle of the parasite. The cysts drop off the fish and then reappear after a few days. Ich can withstand salinities above 14 ppt and there are some newer strains that are resistant to even lower salinities than that. Now that you have the refractometer, maintain your salinity at 14 ppt for at least three full weeks after the fish show no symptoms. Then slowly (5-7 days) raise it back to display tank levels. Leave your display tank fishless for six weeks to allow the parasite to die off completely. If you have other fish in the main tank, they have been exposed and must be treated also. Otherwise, you risk re-infecting the tang when you put it back in the main tank.

 

[hur]

nicetry,
Thanks for the reply. I have removed all the corals, and I am doing hypo on my DT to make sure I get rid of it.
HUR

 

[wattsupdoc]

You need to remove the lr and any inverts also in the DT. You'r LS is also at risk here.

 

[hur]

wattsupdoc,
I have read that hypo will not disturb the bacteria. I hope it will not disturb my nitrogen cycle, other than that I don't have anything that I care about. I have 80lb live rock, do I have any other risks.
Thank,
HUR

 

[wattsupdoc]

The inverts in the LR will die and likely cause an ammo spike. Move the LR to a tub or elsewhere if you can. You will destroy the diveristy of the LR inverts.

 

[hur]

Thanks, I will do that.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by hur
Thanks, I will do that.
You definately do not want to hypo LR. LS is ok if it is not true live sand complete with hitchikers and all of the life from the ocean. Alot of "live" sand is live in bacteria. The bacteria will be fine.
As for your other question, you gave the ich time to adjust to the lower salinity so it may take more time for them to drop. After you see not one single sign or spec of ich, begin to count three weeks. You can let the fish go to four if you are worried. Keep us posted. We will walk you through this

 

[hur]

I waited 4 weeks, and started raising salt. I am on my 3rd day of raising salt. My fish has been completely ick free for the whole month. Today I saw my blue tang scratching again, and I see one tiny white spot. What do you think is going on, and what should I do.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by hur
I waited 4 weeks, and started raising salt. I am on my 3rd day of raising salt. My fish has been completely ick free for the whole month. Today I saw my blue tang scratching again, and I see one tiny white spot. What do you think is going on, and what should I do.
Did you hypo the display? A month is short, especially when treating a tang. It usually takes a week for the ich to drop off, then you begin to count 3 weeks. Tangs soetimes take a little longer. Then another week to raise the SG back up. We haven't heard from you in awhile. Did you check your SG every day to be sure it did not go above 1.009?

 

[hur]

Yes I treated the display. I counted 3+ weeks after the ick was gone. All together 5+ weeks. I was checking the salt level and other values almost daily. Fish were very happy during the treatment period. May be I should do permanent hypo

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by hur
I got blue regal tang about a month ago. Ever since she is on a constant cycle of ick. My water parameter are good. I started doing hypo, but since I did not have a refractometer, I went down to 1.012 using my plastic hydrometer. Ick cleared up within a day, 5 days later it came back, now I got the refractometer, and brought down the salt to 1.009 is it possible for ick to get assimilated to lower salt levels and get resistant.
What I am trying to say is that my salt level was at 1.012 for five days before it went down to 1.009. What I have read is bring the salt level down as fast as possible to be affective.
HUR
Yes, you allowed the ich to get used to the lowerer SG. It is going to take much longer than usual for all of the ich to die off. You have tangs, so you cannot treat them with copper. I would personaly bring the SG to 1.008 until it all drops off.

 

[hur]

I will wait as much I can and then start the hypo again. Tang has couple of tiny white spots may very well be sand, I hope. Sometimes I see her scratching. She is eating fine and active. Any other suggestions?

 

[murph]

If the fish is scratching and has the tell tale white spots it is likely the parasite is still in the system.
I would hypo outside the main tank for at least three weeks and on the fourth follow up with a one week properly dosed copper treatment. You will need a test kit for this and maintain non chelated copper levels at .15 to .20. Main tank running fishless for this entire period.
Personally I have not had problems with short term properly dosed copper exposures. It is likely the fish you have were exposed to not so properly monitored copper levels at the wholesale and retail level anyway.
I like the idea of hypo for treating parasites and don't want to step on any toes around here but IMO the only 100 percent effective method will be copper exposure. This is probably only due to the fact that it is difficult in the case of small QT tanks to maintain proper salinity levels. Evaporation alone will require careful top offs at least twice a day to maintain these levels.
You may be on to something I never thought of doing however by remove inverts and rock from dt and performing hypo there. Larger body of water means an easier time maintaining proper salinity levels. Of course don't even say the word copper within ten feet of your main display

 

[molly05]

Originally Posted by Murph
If the fish is scratching and has the tell tale white spots it is likely the parasite is still in the system.
I would hypo outside the main tank for at least three weeks and on the fourth follow up with a one week properly dosed copper treatment. You will need a test kit for this and maintain non chelated copper levels at .15 to .20. Main tank running fishless for this entire period.
Personally I have not had problems with short term properly dosed copper exposures. It is likely the fish you have were exposed to not so properly monitored copper levels at the wholesale and retail level anyway.
I like the idea of hypo for treating parasites and don't want to step on any toes around here but IMO the only 100 percent effective method will be copper exposure. This is probably only due to the fact that it is difficult in the case of small QT tanks to maintain proper salinity levels. Evaporation alone will require careful top offs at least twice a day to maintain these levels.
You may be on to something I never thought of doing however by remove inverts and rock from dt and performing hypo there. Larger body of water means an easier time maintaining proper salinity levels. Of course don't even say the word copper within ten feet of your main display

Do you need to add copper when you top off? Does copper evaporate?

 

[murph]

No that's an advantage of copper. As long as you don't have any calcareous materials like gravel or base rock copper levels will stay pretty constant. you can use a sponge filter for bio filtration and cut up lengths of PVC to provide cover for the fish. If you actually make a water change which is not a bad idea for hospital tanks just make sure copper level in new water matches that of removed water.
It is important to test daily though and keep it between .15 to .20 for non chelated copper. It is also important to make sure the hospital tank is stable as far as being cycled and sponge filter well established.
Keep water ready to make changes no matter what you use; hypo or copper if you suspect you could have problems as far as ammonia with a newly set up hospital tank. If you opt for hypo there's no harm in using treated tap water to help keep cost down as you reduce salinity in a hospital tank
Probably be a good idea to keep a ammonia detoxifier on hand also,amquel+ is a good one. Just in case.
edit......................................................
I just saw your tank from a different post. I hope your tank with the trigger, tang, butterfly etc is not infected. Trying to treat that group of fish is going to be difficult in a single HT. If it is that tank I would consider moveing the rock to seperate container. Use various size peices of PVC to provide hideing areas for the fish and hypo the display as was mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[molly05]

Originally Posted by Murph
No that's an advantage of copper. As long as you don't have any calcareous materials like gravel or base rock copper levels will stay pretty constant. you can use a sponge filter for bio filtration and cut up lengths of PVC to provide cover for the fish. If you actually make a water change which is not a bad idea for hospital tanks just make sure copper level in new water matches that of removed water.
It is important to test daily though and keep it between .15 to .20 for non chelated copper. It is also important to make sure the hospital tank is stable as far as being cycled and sponge filter well established.
Keep water ready to make changes no matter what you use; hypo or copper if you suspect you could have problems as far as ammonia with a newly set up hospital tank. If you opt for hypo there's no harm in using treated tap water to help keep cost down as you reduce salinity in a hospital tank
Probably be a good idea to keep a ammonia detoxifier on hand also,amquel+ is a good one. Just in case.
edit......................................................
I just saw your tank from a different post. I hope your tank with the trigger, tang, butterfly etc is not infected. Trying to treat that group of fish is going to be difficult in a single HT. If it is that tank I would consider moveing the rock to seperate container. Use various size peices of PVC to provide hideing areas for the fish and hypo the display as was mentioned earlier in this thread.
This tank was in hypo last year and free of ich now. I really like to add a hyppo to this tank after a qt but I lost her last month in hypo process. I have 20g QT long tank has been running for 4 months now and I would try one more time with hyppo. But this time I will dose copper instead of hypo.

 

[murph]

I assume you mean blue hippo which is a fish prone to ich and most definitely should be QTed.
The fish may already be being held in copper at the LFS. You will have to find out from them.
Blue hippos have a more meaty diet than most other tang species and I have had no problems with them in regards to copper exposure nor have I heard of any copper related problems with the species from fellow hobbyist.
Glad to hear your not haveing problems with the DT

 

[briand7878]

is hypo hard on fish that are already sensitive such as butterflies? talking about 4 weeks or so of it. I am thinking of doing it on my dt after removing all inverts and rock. thanks.

 

[molly05]

Originally Posted by BRIAND7878
is hypo hard on fish that are already sensitive such as butterflies? talking about 4 weeks or so of it. I am thinking of doing it on my dt after removing all inverts and rock. thanks.
I had pearscale butterfly, sailfin tang, and clown trigger in hypo for 4 months and they all were fine. Even I kept the salinity at 10ppt during the hypo.