I’m at an end, Please Help!!!

rhomer

Member
There is a lot here that we could look at. First I want to say that I think most of your deaths are due to 2 things:
1) not enough water movement
2) too much stock too soon
So lets move on to your equipment:
Your main filtration is a bio wheel that isn't large enough to handle the size tank you have. The primary function of this is provide biological filtration. You will soon be adding an additional 50lbs of rock. The live rock will take place of the biological filtration therefore the biowheel is no longer needed. This item if continued to be used will harbor nitrates and will later on be the source of nitrate probelms and saltcreep.
So that leaves you with no means to remove excess nutrients in the water, and very little water movement. You will get a huge build up of nutrients in the bottom of the tank and in the rock that will lead to all kinds of nuicence algea, and when that can no longer consume the excess nutrients your tank will become polluted to the point of crashing.
That leaves us with looking into placing the correct equipment at the most reasonable price. Had you known prior to purchasing the tank what was available (don't worry we've all done this) you could have bought each piece when you had the money and planned this so that when you started putting water in and cycling the tank you wouldn't need any major equipment changes in the known future. But were not there, my opionion is that you will need to spend some money here to correct some issues.
First you need a skimmer, you need a good skimmer. DON'T SKIMP here.
You need more water flow. I'm not familiar with hang-on-back skimmers and if there are good enough ones for this, but you could look into this. I would look at skimmers rated at 150 gallons - 300 gallons.
Water flow can be solved with adding more powerheads or adding a sump with a good sized return pump. If you go the sump route you can get an in sump skimmer, you can put all you equipment in the sump and hide everything in the cabinet. These choices are all up to you.
Rob
 

fishrule

Member
Originally Posted by rhomer
There is a lot here that we could look at. First I want to say that I think most of your deaths are due to 2 things:
1) not enough water movement
2) too much stock too soon
So lets move on to your equipment:
Your main filtration is a bio wheel that isn't large enough to handle the size tank you have. The primary function of this is provide biological filtration. You will soon be adding an additional 50lbs of rock. The live rock will take place of the biological filtration therefore the biowheel is no longer needed. This item if continued to be used will harbor nitrates and will later on be the source of nitrate probelms and saltcreep.
So that leaves you with no means to remove excess nutrients in the water, and very little water movement. You will get a huge build up of nutrients in the bottom of the tank and in the rock that will lead to all kinds of nuicence algea, and when that can no longer consume the excess nutrients your tank will become polluted to the point of crashing.
That leaves us with looking into placing the correct equipment at the most reasonable price. Had you known prior to purchasing the tank what was available (don't worry we've all done this) you could have bought each piece when you had the money and planned this so that when you started putting water in and cycling the tank you wouldn't need any major equipment changes in the known future. But were not there, my opionion is that you will need to spend some money here to correct some issues.
First you need a skimmer, you need a good skimmer. DON'T SKIMP here.
You need more water flow. I'm not familiar with hang-on-back skimmers and if there are good enough ones for this, but you could look into this. I would look at skimmers rated at 150 gallons - 300 gallons.
Water flow can be solved with adding more powerheads or adding a sump with a good sized return pump. If you go the sump route you can get an in sump skimmer, you can put all you equipment in the sump and hide everything in the cabinet. These choices are all up to you.
Rob
Thanks for the great information. I’m glad I didn’t buy the other Bio Wheel... :scared:
Now to find what I can afford.. (Still thinking about your offer Unleashed)
I do wish I knew about this before starting, but thats what I get for confiding in my LFS...
Does anyone know of good Hang on back protein skimmers?
How much water flow in (GPH) do I need to have in my tank?
 

unleashed

Active Member
not to start an arguement about the skimmer I have been into this hobby for a little over 4 yrs now I know alot have had many more yrs experience than I have had.but up until I went over to a reef tank I didnt use a skimmer on my tanks with no ill effects on my fish or inverts.my 125 aggressive was my first ever sw tank .I set this tank up with 2 aquaclear 300 now known as 70's and an aquaclear 900 powerhead.i purchased a skilter at first (what a waste of money and electricity) I removed this withing 4 months after set up. all of my first fish stock lasted 3 yrs or more in this set up. I upgraded the filter system in june of 2005 to a proclear wet/dry still using the same powerhead that I started with . I recently added a prizm hang on skimmer ( it doesnt do alot) my oldest fish in this tank is over 4 yrs old the rest had passed away after feb of 2005 one at a time due to other fish being added and attacks or accidental mishaps(such as jumpers or lion stings)none died from desease or illness that was treatable.my oldest is a silver scat known as a brackish species not living longer than 2 yrs in most captive systems ranging up to 4 1/2 inches mine was 4 inches when purchased as is now 9 inches .I can testify that a skimmer may or may not effect the health of fish buit with proper husbandry it can be acheived without on in a FOWLR.I would not do without on my reef ever
 

rhomer

Member
Originally Posted by FishRule
Thanks for the great information. I’m glad I didn’t buy the other Bio Wheel... :scared:
Now to find what I can afford.. (Still thinking about your offer Unleashed)
I do wish I knew about this before starting, but thats what I get for confiding in my LFS...
Does anyone know of good Hang on back protein skimmers?
How much water flow in (GPH) do I need to have in my tank?
Shoot for 1000gph
 

rhomer

Member
Originally Posted by unleashed
not to start an arguement about the skimmer I have been into this hobby for a little over 4 yrs now I know alot have had many more yrs experience than I have had.but up until I went over to a reef tank I didnt use a skimmer on my tanks with no ill effects on my fish or inverts.my 125 aggressive was my first ever sw tank .I set this tank up with 2 aquaclear 300 now known as 70's and an aquaclear 900 powerhead.i purchased a skilter at first (what a waste of money and electricity) I removed this withing 4 months after set up. all of my first fish stock lasted 3 yrs or more in this set up. I upgraded the filter system in june of 2005 to a proclear wet/dry still using the same powerhead that I started with . I recently added a prizm hang on skimmer ( it doesnt do alot) my oldest fish in this tank is over 4 yrs old the rest had passed away after feb of 2005 one at a time due to other fish being added and attacks or accidental mishaps(such as jumpers or lion stings)none died from desease or illness that was treatable.my oldest is a silver scat known as a brackish species not living longer than 2 yrs in most captive systems ranging up to 4 1/2 inches mine was 4 inches when purchased as is now 9 inches .I can testify that a skimmer may or may not effect the health of fish buit with proper husbandry it can be acheived without on in a FOWLR.I would not do without on my reef ever

No, thats fine. Can it be done? Of course it can. Since my skimmer went down 2 months ago, I've been running without a skimmer. Guess what I have 0 nitrates. But I would feel a whole lot better adding a few more fish to my system, and I'm not going to do that without adding a skimmer.
The other option is running a refugium. I had one setup until a week ago, but I found that I really didn't like this(ran this config for 3 years). I think it is easier and cheaper to add a good skimmer.
What I'm suggesting is "best practicies", the greatest opportunity for success, and the most widely practiced filtration for this size system.
BTW you really didn't give skimming a true shake. A skilter is by far the worst piece of crap out there, and the prizim is grossly over priced and over rated for the system size. Of course my previous assessment is based on user reviews and professional opionions read on that equipment.
The sump that you are offering is good solution, but skimming will be difficult with that sump.
Rob
 

unleashed

Active Member
well if you decide to and have to get a skimmer Ill let my prizm go for like 40 bucks I paid 180 for it at my LFS less than yr ago .I have a berlin protien skimmer im going to adding to my 125.I have a venturi on my 300 and to me the prizm just cant compete with that one but at least get something out it hang on back skimmer. I have alot of equipment floating about due to all my upgrades and selling off some of my tanks without equipment
 

unleashed

Active Member
i do also have in in sump skimmer but i dont know what kind it is maybe you can help me with this one rob its all acrylic clear has to lines that run through it I have it at my LFS for sale it needs a cover for the collection cup it stands about 15 inches tall have no clue what kind it is I baught it with a used tank set up and never used it lmao - skilter you aint lien
 

bob a.

Member
Originally Posted by FishRule
Thanks for the great information. I’m glad I didn’t buy the other Bio Wheel... :scared:
Now to find what I can afford.. (Still thinking about your offer Unleashed)
I do wish I knew about this before starting, but thats what I get for confiding in my LFS...
Does anyone know of good Hang on back protein skimmers?
How much water flow in (GPH) do I need to have in my tank?
Rob is still giving you some very good advice. Looking at the posts in this thread, I agree that the tank was too new for the fish you had. Dont feel too bad, we made the same mistakes and lost our share of fish.
From what I can tell now, I would say that a sump is probably a good idea, along with a good skimmer, either a hang on type or in sump. Right now I have a Remora pro hang on by aquac and a Euroreef cs 5-2 in sump. Both are excellent skimmers, but not cheap. Either one would do for a tank your size. Forget the Jebo crap and anything that costs less than 100 bucks and is rated for 150 gals. Its BS. More liverock would help as well.
I dont care for "bilogical filters", I use a hang on type filter but only for mechanical filtration with spun poly and maybe some sort of media like carbon or chemi-pure. Either way you have to keep the filter clean on a weekly basis or it will turn into a nitrate factory as detrius collects there and rots.
You didnt mention phosphates, those are probably high and will contribute to algae problems as well. Get a test kit or have it checked at the lfs. If you dont like paying money for water, buy an RO system and make your own.
Back to the sump. It will help by increasing the amount of water in the system. Remember, the solution to pollution is dilution... More water, less problems. You can do what I did and many other folks do by sectioning off a smaller tank and growing algae like chaeto which will help to suck up excess nutrients like nitrates and phosphates. I run a light 24/7 and that supposedly helps to maintain a constant ph that would normally drop off at night when the lights go out. Sumps are also good to put equipment in that you dont want to see in the display tank like heaters, filters, etc. If your tank isnt drilled, you will need an overflow that will move the water from the tank down to the sump. You will also need a pump like a mag7 to move the water back up to the tank.
Hope the advice helps. good luck.
 
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