I can't tell whats wrong with my fish!

[sac10918]

Okay...
Yesterday I noticed that my bicolor blenny was rubbing himself constantly, and then I noticed that my female black clown had a lot of teeny tiny white dots on her face. I am assuming the blenny had them too but his color was too light to really see them. THe male clown looks okay. Of course, my parents don't believe me that they have some sort of disease because they think I am always obsessing about the fish and their eyes can't see quite as well as mine. So, they think that I am over reacting and that we shoud just leave the fish alone. This morning I woke up and now my male clownfish has these really tiny white dots around his face also. The blenny and the female are still hiding in the rockwork but I have a feeling that they are not any better. My problem is that I cannot tell if this looks like ICH or broklynella. When looking at the female yesterday, I noticed that one of her middle black stripes looked like it had some dry looking scales on it.
Here are my parameters:
12 gallon aquapod
Tests as of yesterday...
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0-10
Copper 0
Temperature 80 F
Alkalinity 9dkH
pH 8 (usually at 8.2 but i think my RO top off water lowers it)
Phosphates 0
I can try to get a pic but like I said, the markings are so small that my family doesn't even believe they need treatment! Of course, this appears 2 weeks after I added my unquarantined bicolor. Please help me! The fish dont really look necessarily like ICH or broklynella. Do I need to wait for this disease to progress before I can really tell what it is?
THanks

 

[sac10918]

Can't anyone tell me if this sounds more like Ich or broklynella? The three fish are rubbing themselves on the rock and the corals. Also, it seems like there are a lot of white dots concentrated around the clown's eyes...
Please HELP! :help:

 

[alyssia]

Ich

 

[sac10918]

Here is the best pic I could get...

 

[lion_crazz]

Sounds like ich to me. You could either QT the fish and do a hypo treatment on them, or you could try a reef/live rock and invert safe ich medication like Chem Marin's Stop Parasite. They are your options at this point.

 

[sac10918]

Ive decided that I am going to QT the fish with hypo. Unfortunately, I dont have a cycled QT tank. I went out and bought a 10 gallon tank, some PVC piping, a heater, and some amquel. I am sending my dad out for a pump, filter, and light. I am not sure what the best option is for filtering. Like I said, its not cycled so I need something to help prevent it from cycling. Any suggestions....
Lion, I can't find the stop parasite anywhere near me. I was goign to use it and cycle my quarantine while I used it so that if it didnt work I could then have a cycled quarantine to put them in. But no store around here has it. I could order it, but it would take like a week to get here and I am afraid that the fish will be very ill by then. What do you think? How quickly will the ich kill if left untreated? What do you recomend for filtration to keep the uncycled quarantine tank from cycling?
Is my set up missing anything?
Thanks

 

[sac10918]

One more thought,
When I move the fish over, do i fill the QT with Display tank water? The QT is 10 gallons and the display is 12 gallons so I will certainly not have enough to fill it up all the way. Would I be okay filling it up half way, adding the fish without acclimating them (since it will be the same water they were just in in the DT) and then filling it up the rest of the way slowly with some fresh saltwater adjusted to the same salinity and temperature?
Will this work or do I need to fill the QT up all the way and then acclimate them to that water? Which is a better process?
Thanks again

 

[lion_crazz]

One thing I must ask is are both of the fish still eating well. Has their appetite been affected at all by the ich? If so, you definitely need to quarantine because you do not have as much time.
I would fill the QT with new water and leave the display as is. Put a little bit of the display water in a container and drip acclimate the fish to the QT tank. I would set the QT tank up and let it run 24 hours before you put the fish in just to aerate it a little bit. You will need to do water changes on it every single day to keep the ammonia down. I would also recommend using Friy-Zyme Turbo Start to get harmful levels of ammonia and nitrite down. This product contains live biological bacteria and is usually in the fridge at your LFS.
When you set the QT tank up, make sure the salinity and temp is EXACT to that of your display tank. Every time you do a water change on the QT tank, this is vital. Make up your water change water 24 hours in advance each day and let it aerate with a powerhead and heat with a heater. Heat the water up to the exact temp and make the salinity a tad bit lower each time, so that you start lowering the salinity eventually to 1.009. You want to keep the stress level to a minimum so you want to do this slowly.
I would use a hang on bio-wheel filter for the QT tank. This will keep a lot of oxygen in the water.

 

[sac10918]

Hi Lion,
Thanks for the help. I went out today and bought everything I think I am going to need for this. As far as acclimating the fish, shall I catch them, then put them in a small container and then drip in the QT water into their containers so they can adjust?
Also, the trubo start product seems that it would start a cycle very quickly if added to the tank, not prevent a cycle. Can you explain a bit more why you suggest it? I did by the bio wheel power filter and I plan to do vacuuming and water changes at least every day, maybe twice a day. I am going to be buying the refractometer tomorrow (LFS closed today).
The fish are still eating, although not as much as usually (except the blenny who eats a lot still). THe clowns seem to be the most affected even though I think the blenny brought the ich. I am going to have to quarantine all three of them together so I will really have to be on top of the vacuuming and water changes.
Theoretically, 6 weeks in QT should kill all the ich on the fish, as well as the ich that would be in the DT because it has nothing to host, correct? Can ich live on coral, live rock, sand or inverts? Just wondering because I have read posts where people QT their new corals and I was wondering what the reason for this is. THanks for your help. Now if I can only catch the fish in tank. Any suggestions on this part as well?

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by sac10918
Theoretically, 6 weeks in QT should kill all the ich on the fish, as well as the ich that would be in the DT because it has nothing to host, correct? Can ich live on coral, live rock, sand or inverts? Just wondering because I have read posts where people QT their new corals and I was wondering what the reason for this is. THanks for your help. Now if I can only catch the fish in tank. Any suggestions on this part as well?
6 weeks in QT will kill the ich on the fish and in your display, yes. Ich cannot host off of coral, live rock or inverts. It needs a fish to host on, however, it can be carried or introduced by live rock and such. I once introduced fully cured live rock to my tank and there was some oodidium parasites (velvet) living in it that I did not know of. Stupidly, I did not QT this rock, and introduced it into my tank because I knew it was fully cured. Ich lives for about 23 days. I would probably recommend being very gentle in trying to catch them. If you can catch them without a net and use a viewing container, I would suggest that. You do not want to stress the fish anymore than neccessary.
Originally Posted by sac10918
Thanks for the help. I went out today and bought everything I think I am going to need for this. As far as acclimating the fish, shall I catch them, then put them in a small container and then drip in the QT water into their containers so they can adjust?
As far as acclimating, yes, catch them, put them in a small container and do a very slow drip acclimation. Every few minutes, empty some of the water out of the container so that more of it becomes QT tank water.
Originally Posted by sac10918
Also, the trubo start product seems that it would start a cycle very quickly if added to the tank, not prevent a cycle. Can you explain a bit more why you suggest it? I did by the bio wheel power filter and I plan to do vacuuming and water changes at least every day, maybe twice a day. I am going to be buying the refractometer tomorrow (LFS closed today).
I suggest that product because you will definitely have a cycle. That is unavoidable. By placing three fish in a new QT tank, you are promoting the beginning of a cycle - and a quick start at that. The fish will enter the tank, breathe, eat, and defacate, and their waste product will begin to decay, forming ammonia. Because there is no biological bacteria to break down this waste product, ammonia will just continue to rise and rise and rise. Nothing will be able to convert it into nitrites, and then convert it into nitrates.
By buying Turbo Start, you will introduce live bacteria into the tank and it will attach to the bio wheel because the bio wheel has a lot of surface area. When the fish breathe, eat, and defacate, their decay will turn into ammonia, and the bacteria will begin to break down the ammonia and turn it into a less dangerous nitrite. If there is enough bacteria on the biowheel, the nitrites will become nitrates, an even less dangerous form. Along with water changes, your parameters should remain pretty low, hopefully non-dangerous.

 

[sac10918]

Lion,
Does the turbo start need to be added to the QT five days before I can add the fish? Or can I add them immediately? What are your experiences?
So the ich can be carried on live rock and such? But theoretically, if the tank has no fish in it for six weeks, then any ich which was hiding on the live rock will die because it has no host?
Thanks

 

[lion_crazz]

Yes, ich that is hiding or living in live rock will die because within a 6 week period, it ultimately needs a host to survive and reproduce. With no fish in the tank, it does not have this.
Turbo Start comes in a bottle that treats 75 gallons of tank water. It can be added to your tank after each water change that you give your tank in order to add more biological bacteria.
When I set up my 210 and moved my 75 into it the same day, I added 3 bottles of Turbo Start and I saw no cycle whatsoever (even though I went from a 75 to 210, with more substrate added, more live rock added, etc.)

 

[sac10918]

Okay, I am going to look for the turbo start today after school. I am worried that I might not find it around here even though there are a lot of LFS stores. I searched forever for the stop parasite product you recommended, and no one here has it of course. Hopefully I can find the turbo start locally. If not, and I do have to order it online, do you suggest that I wait for it to arrive, dose the QT with it and then add the fish. Or would it be smart of me to get the fish in the Qt today without adding the turbo start first and wait for it to arrive and dose my water with it then?
Also, are there any products I should be treating my DT with while the fish are in QT?
Thanks

 

[lion_crazz]

No, you don't need to treat your display with anything. Just let it run without fish.
For the Turbo Start, look in the fridges of your LFS. This product is live, so it needs to be refreidgerated. Did you set your QT up yet? Has it been running yet? Did you start a cycle yet? I would rather you have the QT set-up and put the fish in with the Turbo Start, but you can add the fish without the stuff. You will just really need to stay on top of the water changes. At the beginning, you may need to do 2 to 3 water changes a day, depending on your ammonia levels.

 

[sac10918]

Lion,
I just got back from the LFS. I bought some ich attack but now I dont think I will even bother using it. I got my heater and a powerhead so I am hoping by tonight around 5 it will up to the same temp as the DT. I cant find the turb start anywhere. I did find a product called Bio Spira Marine which is supposed to cycle the tank in a day. It sounded to me like it does the same thing so I hope that will do for now. I am waiting to get the tank temp up before I add it. Hopefully, the bacteria will live in the bio wheel like you suggested.
The bio wheel and airstone have been going since last night but like I said, I just got the heater in a few minutes ago.
I am really really nervous about catching them. I don't want to stress them out any more than they already are.
Heres the plan....
1. get temp up by tonight
2. add the bio spira
3. Catch the fish and acclimate them very slowly
4. Put them in the QT tonight
5. THis week, i will begin to slowly lower the salinity. (SEnt my dad out for a refractometer today!)
6. I am more than willing to do 3-4 water changes a day. ANYTHING to save them! I am wondering though, if i do a water change tomorrow after adding them tongiht, will I remove too much of the nitro bacteria that I added in?
Thanks

 

[lion_crazz]

I would not use the Ich Attack. I have heard that it does not work all that great. That's my opinion though.
BioSpira is pretty good, I have heard. I have never used it, so I would not know from experience. Make sure both the temp and salinity are exact to your display. If one is off, keep adjusting until it is EXACT. I would add it ASAP so it can start to attach to the filtration and such. Then, when the fish go into the tank, add it again. I don't know if you can overdose that stuff, so just follow instructions on the bottle for cycling an aquarium.
As far as your process, everything sounds good to me. I agree that you should not start lowering the salinity until the fish are settled in and the ammonia and nitrites have gone down. You do not want to stress the fish too much at once. You have ammonia and nitrite test kits, right? You will need to use these often when you have the fish in QT. By doing water changes, you will not be removing the bacteria because the bacteria will attach to the bio wheel. You will simply be removing water that is high in ammonia and replace it with no ammonia water while your bacteria is stabilizing on the biowheel.
What are the instructions on the BioSpira as far as dosage?

 

[fiji_blue]

I have been paying attention to this thread and was wondering how did you get ich in your tank. There is no possible way that your bi-color blenny could have imported it in because you would have noticed it on the fish right away and you also would have noticed that it was stressed at the lfs when you bought it. Plus ich kills fish fast. It won't cling on to a fish for two weeks and then all of a sudden bam. It kills fish pretty fast depending how hardy the fish is.
What is your filtration for your DT? And what kind of skimmer do you have?
Good luck to you and your fish? I like that clownfish btw.

 

[lion_crazz]

No, he definitely could have imported it from the bi color and not noticed it right away. There could have been one small little parasite on him, and then it multiplied and multiplied within a few weeks. Also, fish who have ich are not always stressed out.
Ich is not all that deadly if treated fast enough. Fish can live for weeks fighting ich. Velvet is pretty deadly though. That will usually take a fish in a few days to a week.

 

[fiji_blue]

The chances of of some one or two parasites of surviving that trip is highly unlikely and would definately take longer thank two weeks for ich to multiply that fast if it was a few parasites.