i need plumbing help bad

C

crash&burn

Guest
Hi i'm in need of help with plumbing my 125 reef ready tank.
should i use two 1" bulkheads for the drain and 2 3/4 bulks for my returns?
or just go with 4 1"bulkheads.
I am going to make my sump from a 30 gallon tank. I want to add the baffles but don't know how far apart i should put the baffles and how wide to make the skimmer chamber and return pump chamber.
I would like to make a sump with the refug in it. I show some pics but no measurements or gallons. So far i have my drains partially plumbed with 1" pipe but i do not know if i should have the drains connect into one drain line or leave them separate and have each one drain out into the sump?
So the drains would be as of now = 2 90* street elbows connected to my bulkheads with 2 feet of horizontal pipe on each drain (give or take a couple of inches) with 2 90*elbows leading down with about 8" of pipe on each drain.
My concern is my return pump i was looking to use either the mag 12 or 18. The have 3/4 connections. Should i plumb the outlet to fit 1" pipe or leave it 3/4 all the way up. I see that the aga over flow kit has 3/4 return line.
I need help so bad.
if i need to elaborate more please let me know. i don't know what else to write to help you answer me.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
What size are the bulkhead holes in the tank? If you can I'd go with the 1" bulkheads and even on the returns as well.....Even though the Magdrive pumps are 3/4" or so they are throttled back and you won't get the full potential out of the MagDrives running them on 3/4"
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Is your tank already drilled? I imagine it is, and this will dictate the size of your bulkheads... you can't fit a 1" bulkhead in a hole drilled for a 3/4...
If you have (2) 1" drains, you can plumb them into one big drain line if you want, or have them separate. If you use one big drain line, then it should be more than twice the size of your largest original pipe. To figure the size of the pipe, you figure area of a circle, or 0.7854 sq. inches. So you need a main drain line that is more than twice this. 1.5" is 1.7671, which is more than twice .7854, so you will be good with 1.5" pipe.
Most designs for sumps that include fugest put the skimmer at one end, the fuge on the other, and a middle return section. I don't want to comment on how big each section would be, but you may want to plumb one drain into each side.
For your pump, beware that the AGA megaflows on a 125RR are rated for 600gph each (drain) or 1200 gph total. A mag 18 will probably be a bit too powerful for that, so I'd use a mag12.
The pump has a 3/4" output, but if I were you, I'd plumb that straight into a fitting that takes you up to 1", then run 1" all the way up to the returns, then reduce back to 3/4". The bigger pipe will allow more flow.
 
C

crash&burn

Guest
Ok as of right now i have 4 1" bulkheads, don't ask me how, they came with them from the store. The owner did not have any AGA over flow kits in stock so he gave me two used aga drains but no returns. So this is my delima. The web site (aga) shows 3/4 bulk head/return so this is why i'm all blow out and upset.
I will go with the mag 12 and plumb it up to 1" with 1 1" tee and two 90* elbows going to my bulkheads that should solve that problem for the returns.
With my drains, i can do two seperat 1" drains lines, one with a tee branching down with a ball valve leading down to the fuge and the other side of the tee leading into the skimmer chamber were the other drain line will go.
Does that sound like it would work?
Ok tell me if this sounds good and if it will work. starting from the left side of a 36" tank for a sump/fuge. 12" for fuge with one glass baffle sealing off that section with a 1" bulkhead/strainer at the top of baffle leading out into the center, the 8" section for return pump (mag 12) then three baffles two inches in between each section with the middle baffle in the up right postion leaving a 3" gap under it for water flow leading to my skimmer chamber. My skimmer will be out of sump, its an MRC. Does this sound like it will owrk?
If so then i have another question. My MRC skimmer has a gated valve for my return, how should i connect that back to the sump? thrue a bulkhead leading to where or plumb it up an over back in to the sump. this is another problem for me.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Originally Posted by crash&burn
Ok as of right now i have 4 1" bulkheads, don't ask me how, they came with them from the store. The owner did not have any AGA over flow kits in stock so he gave me two used aga drains but no returns. So this is my delima. The web site (aga) shows 3/4 bulk head/return so this is why i'm all blow out and upset.
I will go with the mag 12 and plumb it up to 1" with 1 1" tee and two 90* elbows going to my bulkheads that should solve that problem for the returns.
With my drains, i can do two seperat 1" drains lines, one with a tee branching down with a ball valve leading down to the fuge and the other side of the tee leading into the skimmer chamber were the other drain line will go.
Does that sound like it would work?
Ok tell me if this sounds good and if it will work. starting from the left side of a 36" tank for a sump/fuge. 12" for fuge with one glass baffle sealing off that section with a 1" bulkhead/strainer at the top of baffle leading out into the center, the 8" section for return pump (mag 12) then three baffles two inches in between each section with the middle baffle in the up right postion leaving a 3" gap under it for water flow leading to my skimmer chamber. My skimmer will be out of sump, its an MRC. Does this sound like it will owrk?
If so then i have another question. My MRC skimmer has a gated valve for my return, how should i connect that back to the sump? thrue a bulkhead leading to where or plumb it up an over back in to the sump. this is another problem for me.
Hey Mike....sent your reply back by email.......Sorry it took a bit......You might run into issues trying to run it this way......You are going to have a hard time gravity feeding the skimmer through a bulkhead IMO......1st the skimmer should be elevated above the sump to negate any issues with backpressure on the return or exhaust of the skimmer.....With the skimmer exhaust being plumbed up and over the top of the sump you will create backpressure therefore it will affect the water level inside the main riser tube, which will make it hard to keep a steady water level IMO.......I'm under the assumption from your email that your running a recirc skimmer cause you had listed it as a MRC2R which is Andys' recirc model.......
The skimmer needs to be fed 1-2X tank volume either by gravity or by a feed pump.....I run my MRC4R by gravity feeding the skimmer directly off my drain line of the tank.....The skimmer is again fed 1-2X tank volume and the rest is dumped directly to the sump.........The feed bulkhead of the skimmer is between the 2 beckett riser housings or tubes..........Your recirc or dedicated pressure pump is connected to the lower bulkhead on the front of the skimmer body......your exhaust bulkhead is on the left side of the skimmer body......You should definitely exhaust the skimmer back to the sump.....Again trying to exhaust the skimmer upwards would create back pressure ......you want to try to eleviate as much backpressure on the exhaust of any skimmer as much as possible.......I do advise to run this skimmer with a pressure rated pump.....You might see that a MagDrive can do the job.......Trust me you'll be replacing it and Andy will tell you directly from his mouth that a true pressure rated pump is needed to run it efficiently.......
If needed I can post pics of how mine is plumbed or you can dig up my old setup build and all the pics are located there as well......Just let me know Mike what you need!!!!!!! You won't be displeased with that skimmer.......Just think of a good head on a beer when you tune the monster......
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Hey man, found your post. Stop by ***** i have nothing better to do then talk since I’m only a tech and ***** sux.
Anyway. Acrylic and scsinet know what they are talking about, good people to listen to.
My only questions is to acrylic and scsinet are while yes plumbing up to 1" will max the pump but if crash is using the stock AGA drain in both corners 1" pipe from the mag 12 is going to suck the water right out of the sump. In doing so crash is going to have to throttle down the return pump and not get a nice flow from the returns.
I can not see using 1" pipe only to drop down to 3/4 pipe with 1/2 inch loc-line
Crash do I have this right.
You have a 125 RR tank with two AGA stock drain pipes
Your sump is a 55 gallon with a mag 12?
You want to plumb up from 3/4 MPT to 1" going up from the pump to a T and then "X" amout of straight pipe coming from both sides of the T to a 90 degree street elbow on each return up threw the bulkheads to a 1" pipe then a 1" to 3/4 reducer elbow to 1/2 inch loc-line?
I think your going to suck your sump dry.
If I’m wrong guys please correct me.
This is my idea.
Stick with the sump and the pump. Keep the return lines at 3/4 with the specs just like you were saying but add union ball valves.
From the pump up to a union ball valve up to a T. With X amount of straight pipe coming out of each side. Then a union ball valve on each side of the T then to your 90 degree elbows thru 3/4 bulkheads while using 3/4 pipe up to a 3/4 90 degree elbow to 1/2" or 3/4" loc-line. The different size loc-line will determine the force of the water being expelled back into the tank. If need be I have both size loc-line if you need.
For your drains.
The stock drains thru the 1" bulkheads to 45 degree elbows (90 elbows will slow down the draining) On one side add a T to lead to the fuge (like we talked about) with a union ball valve to slow the drain rate to the fuge. Continue on from the other side of the T to the skimmer chamber. On the other drain line, same deal with a union ball valve to the skimmer chamber.
I think this will solve all your potential problems with running the sump dry.
I do want to see what acrylic and scsinet have to say, or anyone else for that matter.
I see you got the MRC. Your going to love that skimmer (props goes to acrylic. He turn me on to the MRC)
Ask acrylic about your idea on the return from the skimmer. I don’t think it will work, to much back pressure, I could be wrong.
If need be, I can drill another hole at the top of the sump and pipe the return that way.
I think this will solve all your potential problems with running the sump dry. Don’t worry about it with the help of the people on the board you get the tank up and running soon enough.
I do want to see what acrylic and scsinet have to say, or anyone else for that matter.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
A mag 12 is rated at 1200GPH.
The sum of the overflow capacity is 1200GPH.
All things being equal and in a perfect world, the system will balance, but obviously that is never the case.
In this case, the mag is going to be working against at least a few feet of head pressure, so you are only going to be dealing with about 1100gph, so thing should run in check. I don't want to speak for Acrylic, but the reason I was suggesting 1" pipe is because that way the plumbing won't slow down the flow even more. He should definitely put a ball valve on the output of the pump to dial back if needed.
I'm of the school of thought that it's always better to have a controllable system than intentionally designing it to operate inefficiently where you don't have control.
A ball valve would be a better solution IMO because at least that way he can tweak it to get the very most out of his system.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
A mag 12 is rated at 1200GPH.
The sum of the overflow capacity is 1200GPH.
All things being equal and in a perfect world, the system will balance, but obviously that is never the case.
In this case, the mag is going to be working against at least a few feet of head pressure, so you are only going to be dealing with about 1100gph, so thing should run in check. I don't want to speak for Acrylic, but the reason I was suggesting 1" pipe is because that way the plumbing won't slow down the flow even more. He should definitely put a ball valve on the output of the pump to dial back if needed.
I'm of the school of thought that it's always better to have a controllable system than intentionally designing it to operate inefficiently where you don't have control.
A ball valve would be a better solution IMO because at least that way he can tweak it to get the very most out of his system.

Ok I see where your coming from. My concern is and was what is the GPH rate going to be. Off the top of anyone’s head, what is the GPH output of the mag12 w/ 1" pipe. I would just be afraid that he is going to hard line everything with 1” and something is not going to match and end up throttling back the pump and not get a nice forceful flow from the returns
My other idea is and scsinet again tell me if this a bad Idea to throw at him. On my 265 I run spa flex pipe from my drains instead of hard pipe and hard pipe up to my return loc-lines. The spa flex has little friction holding back drainage and with no 90 degree elbows to slow and impede the water flow my pump that was and is to big is throttled back with a ball and a couple of elbows is match a lot easier.
So would it be advisable for crash to run spa flex from the drains straight down to the filter/skimmer chamber and other just place a T and run a hard line with a ball valve to the fuge?
On the mag have him run 1” hard line like he wanted to?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
IMO, spa-flex is an ideal drain line material.
If the drain line is large enough, hard plumbing won't slow the flow down too much. That's why I suggested consolidating into one larger pipe.
But spa-flex is a feasable alternative because it doesn't slow down the flow from the drains as much, just as you suggested.
Of course, the idea here is maximixing the flow from the drains first, then dealing with the return pump, which is what we are obviously doing here.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
IMO, spa-flex is an ideal drain line material.
If the drain line is large enough, hard plumbing won't slow the flow down too much. That's why I suggested consolidating into one larger pipe.
But spa-flex is a feasable alternative because it doesn't slow down the flow from the drains as much, just as you suggested.
Of course, the idea here is maximixing the flow from the drains first, then dealing with the return pump, which is what we are obviously doing here.

Now your throwing me off now.
If he plumbs the outlets bigger, you don’t think he is going to have a gurgle noise from the drains?
What if he takes the two 1” stock AGA drain line and from the bottom of the bulkhead plumbs up to 1.5 or 2” hard line to the chambers, would that help drain faster yet keep the noise down. On the returns plumbs the pump 1” all the way up to the loc-lines with ½” loc-lines
Now I’m curious
:notsure: :thinking: .
Secondly, with 1” return going straight up to the loc-lines, would that not slow the force of the water being expelled back into the tank. More water but not a good force being pushed out.
I maybe wrong, but I think he is trying to get water movement along with a turn over rate with just the return pump and loc-lines.
So he does what I did and use ½” loc-line the water is forced out the smaller opening creating a forceful and strong currant.
Like putting your thumb over a garden hose to put a little pressure on the water coming out.
I’m going to have to go and see if the home improvement stores buy me sell bigger spa flex.
If I remember correctly they only had 1” spa flex.
Now my curiosity is at full peek :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:
:joy: .
 
lxoxsxi

lxoxsxi

New Member
The pump has a 3/4" output, but if I were you, I'd plumb that straight into a fitting that takes you up to 1", then run 1" all the way up to the returns, then reduce back to 3/4". The bigger pipe will allow more flow.
pretty sure going from 3/4 to 1" back to 3/4 would have the same flow as 3/4 the entire way.
 
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