I need sump help

[flower]

Long story made short. I was upgrading from a 30g long to a 56g tall tank. I had to run both at the same time until I was ready to break down the 30g.
Okay, my problem is this. I put a 20g tall tank under my new stand and in my excitement didn’t add the baffles. Now my display tank is all set up and my sea horses are happy, and now that I’m ready brake down the 30g and move the plumbing to do the sump…I can’t reach the lower tank enough to make a good seal on the baffles.
So what I decided to do is keep the 30g sump I already have, and have a sump to the side instead of under the stand.
The sump has three chambers…two chambers are equal, and one chamber on the end is tall and was a refugium section. I would like to keep a refugium and I can turn the sump tank and put the fuge on either end.
Can anyone help……How do I do the plumbing?

 

[al&burke]

Hey Flower - nothing changes just make sure the 30 gallon sump is lower than DT - the hoses can go to the side as long as eveything is flowing down. Make the inlet side of your sump closest to the DT.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///t/388084/i-need-sump-help#post_3419984
Hey Flower - nothing changes just make sure the 30 gallon sump is lower than DT - the hoses can go to the side as long as eveything is flowing down. Make the inlet side of your sump closest to the DT.
UMM..The Y connector won't work. It is no longer a straight drop. I had a hose feed into both ends, one for the fuge section and the other for the skimmer section.
The sump will indeed be lower. I was thinking PVC pipe but I need directions on how to angle the pipes. The return isn't an issue for me.

 

[acrylic51]

Hey Flower not really understanding what your after, but it doesn't have to be a straight drop to the sump......

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/388084/i-need-sump-help#post_3420007
Hey Flower not really understanding what your after, but it doesn't have to be a straight drop to the sump......
Okay let me explain. The way I had the plumbing on the 30g was a strsight drop, so a Y connector was all I needed, the water flowed through both hoses equally. However with the sump off to the side, one hose will drop straight down but the other has to travel to the other side of the tank before any water would reach it.
Water flows the easiest route, and the first drop will get all the water, and none for the farthest away. How do I remedy that? I have been using flex hoses but I can work with PVC...I've got a cutter, cement and everything...1 inch pipe nothing bigger.

 

[acrylic51]

Ok.....So were talking about drain lines to the sump? What your questioning is the length of the run that 1 of the drain lines will be before it actually dumps into the sump?

 

[acrylic51]

Any way you can shoot a quick pic to get me up to speed or eyeball things????

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/388084/i-need-sump-help#post_3420015
Ok.....So were talking about drain lines to the sump? What your questioning is the length of the run that 1 of the drain lines will be before it actually dumps into the sump?
Yes, and I can't do a picture yet, I haven't got it in place or anything. I'm still working on the idea to see if it's even doable. The size will fit...37 inches with the metal stand, and the space beside the new tank is 37, so it's a tight fit. I can make the top portion of the stand into a shelf to hold the chiller and have the sump below.
I'm going to try one more time to seal the baffles on the tank under the stand...I wish I had thought things out a bit before I did this to myself.

 

[acrylic51]

So your more concerned about the baffles in the sump being completely water tight? How much bypass water are you seeing as the baffles sit now? Worse case I can't remember it might be Saxman that uses the EPMD(spelling) to get a water tight seal......IMO a completely water tight seal isn't a super big deal unless you have water gushing by......
But back to the drain lines....regardless how long of a run or turns they have to make to enter the sump shouldn't be a big deal. It will still drain to the sump as long as it's sloped downhill.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/388084/i-need-sump-help#post_3420024
So your more concerned about the baffles in the sump being completely water tight? How much bypass water are you seeing as the baffles sit now? Worse case I can't remember it might be Saxman that uses the EPMD(spelling) to get a water tight seal......IMO a completely water tight seal isn't a super big deal unless you have water gushing by......
But back to the drain lines....regardless how long of a run or turns they have to make to enter the sump shouldn't be a big deal. It will still drain to the sump as long as it's sloped downhill.
LOL...Saxmans idea of EPDM is what got me in my situation, not his fault, but my own. I am so unhandy. I had the baffles too tight so I had them shaved down...then too much. I can't stand on my head bending over, and I can't stay on my knees longer than maybe 3 minutes tops. I have 1 inch of water in the skimmer section, beyond that point the water seeps too fast and becomes even with the next chamber. So that won't do.
So now I removed the water leaving the point where the seepage begins...letting it dry, then I am going to try working on the opposite side and get it to seal. I'm using pond foam because the gap was too large and I don't want to putz with cutting glass again.
So these are my options.
A. Get the pond foam to work on the baffles I put in there, and already made a mess with. The baffles fell over and I repositioned them..so the foam leaks now that it is dry. It did seal on the bottom, and 1 inch up the sides so I know it CAN work.
B. Cut more glass baffles making space for the EPDM, not too short and not too long, and again stand on my head or get on my knees to try and get them to seal.
C. Use the old sump next to the new tank.
....B is the smartest, most normal and best thing to do, but I dread the idea... I also would have to scrap the pond foam off to make a good seal.
So trying to FIX the mess is very hard, so I thought maybe I could go along the side, and use the sump that I already know is working good.
Oh I do have another choice...find a handy man and marry him, so I can have him work on my fish tank stuff.

 

[acrylic51]

So the sump and baffles are glass???? How much of a gap are we talking????? Is it possible silicone could be used to fill the gap? Might not be the prettiest, but might be worth a shot? Could do several small applications; continually filling the gap.

 

[acrylic51]

I don't see an issue using the old sump sitting it beside the setup if you can live with it???? Having 1 drain line doing a longer run is no big deal really.

 

[2quills]

That last option doesn't sound like an all bad choice.

Here's a quick mock up of how you make make option C happen if that's the route you choose to go.
Plumbing drains out of the display, runs horizontally until it reaches the sump tank. Then you have a Tee that drops down into the fuge section with a valve to control how much water enters the fuge. The remaining water gets diverted and sent down to the skimmer.

 

[2quills]

As Shawn mentioned. It may not be pretty but laying the silicone down really heavy just might do the trick for you.

 

[acrylic51]

I think both options are a good possibility.....Where you been buddy?

 

[flower]

Thanks 2Quills, that's exactly what I needed to see. So a valve on that first drop will allow the water to flow to the next chamber...Now to ask a really dumb question, only because I already have the hose and would have to purchase the PVC...can I do that with the hose instead of PVC?
Acrylic51, The Baffles are glass. The gap, if I remove the 5/16 EPDM that is all around it, would be way too large to try and use silicone. The gap with the EPDM attached is about 5/16 on one side making it too too short, silicone will not hold the EPDM to the glass tank.
I don't mind using the sump next to the stand. I can use the top part of the metal stand and make a shelf for the chiller and maybe test equipment. The area next to the tank is going to be used for the chiller anyway. I really want a sump, not the canister I have on it right now....an option I didn't entertain.
P.S.
Every guy that was handy that I ever met was already married.

...smart gals their wives.

 

[acrylic51]

I wasn't referring to using the silicone in conjunction with the EPMD seal material. I was suggesting using the silicone alone. I would take a bit of time applying several layers, but should work. What Corey showed is done all the time, so you should be perfectly fine.......I can be done with hose rather PVC.....Same principle.......

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/388084/i-need-sump-help#post_3420142
I wasn't referring to using the silicone in conjunction with the EPMD seal material. I was suggesting using the silicone alone. I would take a bit of time applying several layers, but should work. What Corey showed is done all the time, so you should be perfectly fine.......I can be done with hose rather PVC.....Same principle.......

LOL...No, I knew what you meant...the standing on my head bending over, or sitting on my knees is too painful to keep trying to get enough goop in a nealy half inch gap, which is what I have when I remove the EPDM.
I hate to do something half a$$ed...I managed to remove the baffle with the EPDM and foam, the foam scraped really easy off the glass so it's all clear again. I removed the water and dried it off real good. I guess I will have more baffles cut and try one more time to do it right.
Thanks for the info on being able to use the hose as well...I believe I have plenty of hose and a valve to use, so I have an option if I decide to totally give up on the 20g under the stand.

 

[acrylic51]

You need to find a neighbor kid that can follow directions really well to help you out.......Hope all goes well, keep us posted!!!!

 

[saxman]

You could also get a small piece of glass (maybe 1" or 2" wide x the baffle height) and silicone it to the face of the baffle. While the silicone is still wet, you can slide it over to adjust the baffle to the proper width. You could also use a strip of acrylic. Once the baffle is in place, add beads of silicone at the baffle/sump interfaces. Again, not pretty but will definitely work.