i think swf.com should start a chat room

[nicetry]

IME, the real "cliques" tend to form in the OT forums. I post on no less than 7 sw sites and only one has no OT forum The only thing discussed is the sw hobby so the commonality is there among a great group of serious hobbyists; no distracting BS. On the boards that have OT forums, a select group of members tend to congregate there and often never post outside that arena. These folks develop a sort of "group think" and become their own little faction on the board. Sounds "cliquey" to me. Personally, I never joined a board because of the content of the OT forum, but rather the knowledge base shared on the hobby. The OT topics too often become a platform for flaming, insults, or just inappropriate banter. There are some OT forums out there that make this look like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. I've seen some pretty thin skins around here so doubtful these folks would last long at some of the other sites. A chat feature would not enhance this board in any way, IMO. I frankly wouldn't care if this forum disappeared, and while I post in an occassional thread, I tend to personally stay out of OT discussions. It's a fish board. My experience on most sites is that the really dedicated hobbyists and even expert aquarists, rarely, if ever, post in an OT forum. The relevant info is posted in the main forums.

 

[autofreak44]

Originally Posted by fishkiller
Lovecraft- I completely agree. I've been on this site for a few years, and it HAS gone downhill. There use to be tons of polite, positive people on here and there still are some very good people with very helpful information. BUT, I have run into more rude, ungrateful degenerates on here in the past month than I know what to do with. I'm hesitant to offer help to a newb b/c I dont know if they are going to be a little snot-nosed punk about it or if they will act like an adult. And then there are the people who will throw their opinion out there and not be very tactful about it. And then people take offense to that and then the flame wars start. I also think it is impossible to keep a site that is composed of about 90% adults completely G-rated. Yes, I can understand not letting a conversation get explicit, but to say that minor

[hr]
references and very light-hearted innuendoes are to adult for this site is a bit much. I could see how it had potential to go further, but it did not pass the limits of bad taste IMO.

Anyway, yeah, this is getting old. This board is getting too touchy, too political, too strict, too much..... I'm not saying I want to leave, I mean, you guys are like family. I just wish we could have a more pleasant atmosphere here.
absolutely, very well put. besides life isnt G-rated. personaly, from the 15 year old's point of view there is nothing on this sight that i dont already know, and if there are younger people on here that are learining inapropriate things then maybe they shouldn't be on here. in pg-13 movies there are drugs, violence, and language... if there are parents out there who dont want their children to watch pg-13 movies, then i doubt they would let their kids go on a sight and talk to strangers. if anyone has ever watched one of the scary movies and seen all the vulgar junk that many elementary, junior high, and high schoolers see, i dont think they would be so quick to censor everything on this sight.
IMO nothing on the boards should be censored, the parents of younger people should be able to choose what their kids look at, and older people should be mature enough to wright off offensive comments. this is a fun community, lets not turn it into another politically correct wedgie fest.

 

[autofreak44]

Originally Posted by nicetry
IME, the real "cliques" tend to form in the OT forums. I post on no less than 7 sw sites and only one has no OT forum The only thing discussed is the sw hobby so the commonality is there among a great group of serious hobbyists; no distracting BS. On the boards that have OT forums, a select group of members tend to congregate there and often never post outside that arena. These folks develop a sort of "group think" and become their own little faction on the board. Sounds "cliquey" to me. Personally, I never joined a board because of the content of the OT forum, but rather the knowledge base shared on the hobby. The OT topics too often become a platform for flaming, insults, or just inappropriate banter. There are some OT forums out there that make this look like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. I've seen some pretty thin skins around here so doubtful these folks would last long at some of the other sites. A chat feature would not enhance this board in any way, IMO. I frankly wouldn't care if this forum disappeared, and while I post in an occassional thread, I tend to personally stay out of OT discussions. It's a fish board. My experience on most sites is that the really dedicated hobbyists and even expert aquarists, rarely, if ever, post in an OT forum. The relevant info is posted in the main forums.
i think the OT forums should stay, becasue its not about cliques its about talking to people with common interests. just becasue we like sw doesnt mean that we have to talk about it all the time. this is just a community bonded by a common love for the hobby and IMO i dont see why we shouldnt be able to talk about OT subjects

 

[darthtang aw]

So in other words, no discussions on a discussion site. Coming from a moderator that is almost a policy statement. Every thread description says to "discuss" a particular subject. As a new person, that's been a bit confusing, and it's good to now know.
From the time I've been on here, I've seen what I consider outstanding arrogance and condescension from many posters, and what seems like verbal browbeating of new people that have made mistakes. With a few exceptions, I have not seen a good welcoming of outsiders and new people like myself. The posting rules are vague, searching for information is difficult (unless you know the correct keywords) and alot of people, like myself, are scared to ask a question for fear of being jumped on.
I came here because I know NO-one that has a SW tank and I needed help and information. I tried to be a part of this community but now I'm not so sure I want to be. This place has the feel of a snobby private club, not a place for enthusiasts.

The problem I see is two fold. You have people that post a question then don't like the answer or the post a very broad question and the "regulars" have to spend 8-10 posts getting down to the nitty gritty of an answer.
The otherside of the coin is many of us grow tired of answering the very basic questions. The search feature does work. In fact you will notice I ask very few questions anymore on here. I use the search feature. 90% of the time I can sift through everything and find what I am looking for.
I don't find the members here snobby, I see them as tired and repetative...even the seahorse forum which I have made camp in is getting redundant. The basic question is..."I want a seahorse tank. what do I have to do?". Give me a break...are you kidding me?
These types of questions are the equivalent to asking on a mechanics site how do I put an engine in my Taurus? Most of us do not have the time to respond completely and usually the question has been answered in the last week.
Can I put a tang in my 55?
My fish died, what happened?
What is a good cleanup crew?
What is the best salt?
How often should I change my water?
My water is perfect but my fish are dying...help.
I saw this chemical that says reef safe and will kill ich...does it work?
I want to start a seahorse tank, what do I do?
My zoos are dying, what am I doing wrong?
I have crushed coral, why should I switch to live sand?
What type of lighting should I get for my tank?
These are the top questions asked here. Answering these gets old, especially when we have to ask 20 questions back to give an answer that 50% of the time is rejected.
This is why I personally respond to very little anymore. Oh, I read the hell out of this board, but answer very little as I would be repeating a previous poster or don't have the time to ask 20 questions back. Especially when these questions have been answered 10 times already this week.
It isn't myself being rude, I just get tired of it. I have been on this site for about four years now with various names....The site is the same as it was 4 years ago...except it has grown.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by lovecraft
So in other words, no discussions on a discussion site. Coming from a moderator that is almost a policy statement. Every thread description says to "discuss" a particular subject. As a new person, that's been a bit confusing, and it's good to now know.
From the time I've been on here, I've seen what I consider outstanding arrogance and condescension from many posters, and what seems like verbal browbeating of new people that have made mistakes. With a few exceptions, I have not seen a good welcoming of outsiders and new people like myself. The posting rules are vague, searching for information is difficult (unless you know the correct keywords) and alot of people, like myself, are scared to ask a question for fear of being jumped on.
I came here because I know NO-one that has a SW tank and I needed help and information. I tried to be a part of this community but now I'm not so sure I want to be. This place has the feel of a snobby private club, not a place for enthusiasts.

Just to touch on this a bit further...Ophiura is refering to turning threads into chats. A little over a year ago there was a huge problem with thios. You would have 2 people posting back and forth to each other every minute and it was just useless banter that had no conversational value of any sorts. She is in no way referring to the actual saltwater related discussions. You can discuss. Just don't turn it into a chat where two people make 30 posts in 30 minutes....

 

[rabbit_72]

OKay, I understand that some you seasoned members get tired of answering the same questions over and over and over again. I understand. I have small children and I am constantly having to repeat myself over and over and over again every single day. It does get old.
However, the New Hobbyists forum is for the new hobbyists. It is for the people that have no clue or a little bit of a clue what they are doing and they are looking to YOU for advice because they actually care about this hobby and don't want to keep messing up. I mean, let's face it. There's a lot of misinformation out there. That's where you guys come in....basically to clear up the myths out there. Newbies need you guys. And because they need you guys, they ask a lot of questions and then you have to ask twice as many because they don't understand just what you want to know. I understand this because when I first came to the boards a month ago, I asked questions about my tank and I got a lot of questions back on my tank that at first, I didn't know how to answer. Luckily, a very nice poster, Tiberius, took the time and patiently answered my questions and set me on the right path (I hope) to correcting the problem in my reef tank. I will always be grateful for their help.
And as far as searching for the answers one's self, I understand it IS a little hard to use the search. I have tried and get lost, not unusual for, sorry to say.
All I have to say is please don't take your knowledge away from those of us who need it, even if we sound like a bunch of idiots. We certainly don't mean to be.
Now, how's that for a soapbox!

 

[jennythebugg]

well all anyone wanted to know was if we could use a thread to could chat on because we do have alot of all nighters that end up just posting aimlessley throughout the night ,seasalt doesn't have friends other than you guys because he is stuck in the house 24/7 and his old friends got distant when they learned he was sick, so he was just wanting a way to connect with the folks that are up at night that he has things in common with. elsewhere on the net its hard to find a way to talk to nice folks without being barraged by a bunch of kids wanting cyber nookie, reading what was said by the mods , i do kinda understand where they are coming from .do any of the members already have a chat room set up somewhere like i read about earlier and if they do could they post a link to it?

 

[ric maniac]

lol and i doubt that anything that is posted on here is worse than a jr high....lol! im not saying to post adult stuff tho

 

[rabbit_72]

Originally Posted by jennythebugg
well all anyone wanted to know was if we could use a thread to could chat on because we do have alot of all nighters that end up just posting aimlessley throughout the night ,seasalt doesn't have friends other than you guys because he is stuck in the house 24/7 and his old friends got distant when they learned he was sick, so he was just wanting a way to connect with the folks that are up at night that he has things in common with. elsewhere on the net its hard to find a way to talk to nice folks without being barraged by a bunch of kids wanting cyber nookie, reading what was said by the mods , i do kinda understand where they are coming from .do any of the members already have a chat room set up somewhere like i read about earlier and if they do could they post a link to it?

Yep, Jenny, the thread got a bit off topic, didn't it? I'm sorry I don't know of any chat rooms. I work until midnight or so and come home and go to bed so I can squeeze in a few hours before the kids get up at around 6am. I think the msn idea is a good one though. Maybe start a thread on who wants to join in that? Sorry I am not much help.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by lovecraft
So in other words, no discussions on a discussion site.....
You have to be careful when you say "in other words". That implies you are interpreting what someone has said. In this case your interpretation was off the mark.
Ophiura was very clear in what she was discussing.
What people (most often folks who primarily post in The Aquarium) forget is that we Mods don't share all of the same interests as they do. We all have a love for the hobby and so we can spend time reading through the hours of info posted on topic. We also have to read all of the posts in the Aquarium. When a thread is 12 pages long with 3 people posting back and forth we have to read through it. When someone wants to share about their dead dog who has come back to haunt them we read the thread... etc.
Not all of the threads are bad, and I personally post actively in some of them. Some of them are a good way to get to know the posters better. A lot of them, however, are serious "work" for us Mods to wade through.
This isn't a comment towards you Seasalt. More addressed towards posters on this thread so far that misquoted Ophiura and feel the forum is overly regulated.
Folks, if you don't like the friendliness of the forums or the way new posters are treated there is a simple way to fix it; Post. It only takes one post to turn the tone of a thread around. If you think people aren't being friendly enough lead by example. I disagree with the premise. I believe these are among the most friendly of forums.
Nicetry nailed it. The greatest sub-community on this forum tends to form in the Aquarium. I haven't been a Mod for that long but I've seen it. The internet breeds a lack of restraint and folks feed each other in a very negative way. Eventually behavior gets so out of control bans insue. Things calm down for a while and then get stirred back up.
Autofreek, things will continue to be censored on this forum. It's not just kids and parents who object to material. Many adults do as well. Many of us Mods even

If you want to pursue adult topics the internet is full of places to do so. This forum is not an adult oriented discussion webpage, it is a saltwater aquarium forum. SWF is a company that puts up with the cost of this site to attract business and to promote the hobby.
My suggestion was to try to consolidate some of these off-the-wall topics onto a single thread. Ophiura has wisely pointed out the issue in doing so. I believe Darth has made a great suggestion with some of you creating your own chat group. Just don't advertise it here

 

[lovecraft]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
These are the top questions asked here. Answering these gets old, especially when we have to ask 20 questions back to give an answer that 50% of the time is rejected.
Allright, I hear what you're saying. Then the answer is simple enough, put them in a better sticky/more sticky's. A better FAQ should be easy. The problem with the sticky's this board currently has is that they're not detailed enough. I knew how to do a water change, how to correct my SG, how often to do a water change, but not a thing about evaporation and topping off with RO water. It seems simple enough, it's just not all there. I see a guy asking the same question later on and he's ridiculed. That ticks me off, cause it could've easily been me.
So you are going to get the same questions over and over till they are addressed properly, in detailed form, and easily found. If the information is there and easily found, the "tired" no longer get bothered and the new guys don't have to deal with the snobs, the tired, or the arrogant.
There are very helpful people here, I'm just talking about the a**holes I've seen. I am more than happy finding my own info without talking to anyone here, I actually prefer it for the reasons I stated above.
I started reading this board in Feb., signed up in April, and did not post till 6-07. I studied every sticky there was, trolled the boards and searched until my eyes bled before I started posting. Like the above said, there is much disinformation and most times no concrete yes or no on just about ANYTHING. There's how this dude does it and how that dude does it, so when I see condescending and arrogant people basically telling someone they're stupid for making a common mistake...well, you know that I'm not the only person that has seen this or feels this way.
As for the search function, give me a break!

I searched for days about lights, PC's, power compacts, spectrums, bulbs you name it and couldn't find what I needed. I finally got the answers I needed when I searched for 6700k and 10,000k. Sometimes it's easy, most times you're wading through 15 pages of reef pics. I don't mind working for my knowledge, but there are easier ways.
Lastly,
As a business man, I beleive most people are introduced to this site as new customers for SWF. Even if they weren't, I'd be willing to bet you that most of the members here have bought at least once. I've made 2 purchases for close to $400 spent already. This perception by us "new guys" is a reflection on SWF whether they like it or not, fair or not. If enough people get frustrated, ticked off, and walk away, we'll lose this board for good.
I go out of my way to be nice when I try to share the little bit of experience I have gotten. Always the simple stuff, cause that's all I know, and I have to be sure I'm right. It wouldn't hurt for others to do the same is what it all boils down to.
I've said my peace.....

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by lovecraft
So in other words, no discussions on a discussion site. Coming from a moderator that is almost a policy statement.

Please do not take this out of context of the original request. This is to "chat" about completely off topic unrelated "adult themed" discussions. I understand the "adult themed" has been clarified to mean kids, etc...but I just deleted a bunch of threads relating to subtle

[hr]
references.
Oh, and BTW...I am an adult, and I do not come to this board to read about any, even subtle, references such as this. If that is your thing, great, but to expect to be able to say it on a fish board and complain about us being overly sensitive? Sorry, no...Please (PLEASE!) consider being sensitive to others as well and what the point of the site is.
When I mean "chats" I mean not fish related, not hobby related, not even generic "family friendly" other hobby related productive discussion.
If you have seen as much "chatting" as I have, and as many people are aware of, you will know the context. This is not even productive discussion, this is:
Hey, what you doin'?
Nuthin'
Watchin TV and having a beer.

Yeah? well I gotta work tomorrow.
Haha

You going to be home this weekend?
Yeah. Gotta mow the lawn. Maybe do a water change.
Soooo need to do that too.
Yeah.
Hey, I love this guy:

So do I!

Etc, etc, etc.
Or even worse with other topics or generally random stuff that hijack otherwise productive threads.
I understand people want to do this and there are places for it. But it is NOT here on a fish discussion board. Even though we have the aquarium, where at least sometimes there are good off topic discussions....but many times, BELIEVE ME, there is "chatting" and it does not in my opinion have a place. It takes time to moderate. It takes time to clean up. And it DOES take us away from the real point of this board.
Please consider the context. Obviously it does not mean no discussion on a discussion board. I have been here many years, sharing in discussions, so the implication is strange.
Any time that a thread is too heated or negative should be reported using the "report post" feature immediately. This can be handled. Please understand that there are A LOT of posts, and not a lot of mods, and this is not our job. We are not affiliated with SWF in any way, other than we liked this board and wanted to keep it a great place.

If posts are nasty, you have the power to be positive and change the tone. Watch how YOU post in it and to escalate. Ignore the nasties. Make a difference. If people are really rude, yeah...report them. You can make it the friendly place you want.
I find it odd to hear people complain about it being over moderated and sensitive, and in the same post complain about how rude people can be all over the place.

But we do try very hard. Most of us have been around a long time.....

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by rabbit_72
OKay, I understand that some you seasoned members get tired of answering the same questions over and over and over again. :

I want to clarify that in NO WAY does the "chatting" refer to legitimate questions on fish keeping, even if they are posted a dozen times in the same forum.
This is totally, off topic, random stuff as I have outlined above and that occurs pretty much entirely in the Aquarium and really is not a benefit to most members on the site. It is, literally, a chat between online friends who are just "hanging out."
Even I don't always talk about fish when "hanging out."

I understand the motivation and desire, but I do not feel this is the place to do it (not even a good format - chat rooms and features are way better anyway).

 

[fishkiller]

There is a big difference between subtle references to a prescription and being blatently rude to somebody. People can be just as "rude" on an adult site as on a sw fish site. You are confusing content with disposition. I do not take kindly to rudeness. Nodbody does, as well as they shouldn't. You say that people complain about people being rude, and it's true. I also see the chatting stuff that goes on as well, and it usually ruins the thread, so I understand that. . I don't really see anybody complaining about the

[hr]
references. Well, except for one. I don't think it's right to use people's "chatting" or rude behavior as an excuse to enforce your own personal standing on certain issues or content. There are more sexual references in Disney movies than I have ever seen on this site. I know this will probably get deleted before anyone can see it, but these are my thoughts. I've been on here for a while and I enjoy talking with people who share my love for sw tanks, even if it's about cars, guns, relationships, family, etc. I'm not trying to start anything, I just don't think this is right.

 

[meleerock]

lol.. I feel bad for Tobin. He just asked a question and it got spewed into this. Tobin - you have a pm. -Bryan

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by fishkiller
. I don't really see anybody complaining about the

[hr]
references. ...
Fishkiller, your email address isn't one of the ones that gets an email every time a post is reported. We get a lot of complaints from a lot of people that you don't see. We also delete threads and posts that hopefully you and most of the other users don't see.
As for the Modding style; SWF has had many of the same Mods for years. Clearly there is a standard that they want enforced on their forum. If you feel something is unfair feel free to use the PM feature. If you feel a post is rude use the report feature.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by MeleeRock
lol.. I feel bad for Tobin. He just asked a question and it got spewed into this. Tobin - you have a pm. -Bryan
Tobin's been around for a while. He's seen posts wander before. I'm sure he realizes we discussed his idea and this has evolved into a different discussion.

 

[seasalt101]

i think i've seen as much as the mods how a thread will turn this way or that and have no relevance at all to the original post...tobin

 

[michaeltx]

The one thing everyone has to remember is that report post feature sends an email straight to all of us mods and we look at each and everyone of them and take action. If we come across something that hasnt been reported then we do what is agreed to by eveyone that signs up on the board. These are the rules that are set by SWF.com we are just here to enforce. If there is a post that we are unsure of we have a special forum that only we can access that we discuss the topic and the concensus is what is done to that thread.
I have been on so many different boards and even at this boards WORST its still the best even with the restrictions that the people that pay for it say should go on and what doesnt happen. as far as the rudeness it has been on the rise and the deleted topics that you guys cant see that have been deleted show it. The requests for a member to be banned also reflects the work we try to do to keep this board from getting to that point but it all takes time to do its not automatic. all of these ---- threads that have been popping up we have to look at them to delete them. If another moderator has deleted it already it still pops up on our computer screens so each of us have to look at it. I personally dont care to look at it or see it.
I hope that everyone understand its not our veiws that are getting enforced but the rules of this board set by the admin. as they change so do we prime example is the live selling and trading forum just a couple of months ago EVERY post that has corals for sell or rock or macros was deleted and now its allowed.
Just my 2cents worth LOL
Mike

 

[jennythebugg]

i have a question seasalt was logged in this morning and i tried to report some ---- spam and a message said this function was disabled by the administrator ?are we not allowed to report spam anymore or is this a temporary thing?