I think that ALL of my corals are DEAD!!!

[trippclark]

I am so worried!!! About three or four weeks ago I replaced a non-functioning and very old Rio 600 powerhead that operates the skimmer in my sump with a new Rio 600. Everything was going along fine . . . or so I thought. Yesterday morning, as I was leaving for work, I noticed that the pump had stopped. In recent months I have had lots of problems with powerheads locking up, so I made a mental note to fix this pump when I got home.
Last night, when I got home, I pulled the pump out, preparatory to opening it up to get the impeller moving again. Instead, it started to smoke

! The wire was exposed where it comes in to the unit :scared: . I of course unplugged it.
Then, as I looked into the tank, I noticed that all of my corals . . . and I mean ALL . . . every single polyp and shroom was closed up tight. I have many varieties throughout the main tank . . . yellow polyps, ricordia, shrooms, star polyps, etc. All of my fish are alive (percula clown, blue hippo tang, firefish, royal gramma) as are my shrimp (peppermint and coral banded), brittle stars, hermits, snails, etc. The only sign of other stress is the tang, which has some streaks like he has been striking rocks.
It has now been six hours (night time with lights out) and still no sign of life from any of the corals. They are all closed up still . . . every one.

Are they dead, or are they just "stunned"? Is there any hope that they will come back? What should I do????

 

[trippclark]

More info . . .
I also have a poly filter in the sump, which you likely know changes colors as it removes "stuff" and the color it changes to varies with what is removed. The poly filter is turning BLUE, which indicates COPPER! :scared: So I guess that exposed wire on the NEW Rio 600 powerhead is copper and has poisoned my tank!!!

I just added a second poly filter to try to pull any coper out more quickly. The question still remains, is there any hope that my precious corals will come back, or did a $20 power head wipe out my whole tank?

 

[schadiest1]

if signs of copper are present, i wouldn't just depend on the poly filter to fix your problem. you should do a large water change IMO. i wouldn't panic just yet. just do whatever you can do to remove the copper. how did the wires on your pwrhd become exposed?

 

[trippclark]

Originally Posted by Schadiest1
if signs of copper are present, i wouldn't just depend on the poly filter to fix your problem. you should do a large water change IMO. i wouldn't panic just yet. just do whatever you can do to remove the copper. how did the wires on your pwrhd become exposed?
It is now almost 12 hours after the removal of the powerhead. I am now seeing a FEW of the corals starting to show signs of life and opening up a little (maybe 5% of them are opening at most).
How did the wires become exposed? I wonder the same thing. It looks as though the insulation melted. It is right at the point where the wire enters the housing of the powerhead.
I had the same thought about water change, and immediately started filtering RO water, which I will mix with Instant Ocean, etc. Unfortunately I did a water change just a few days ago and had not yet prepared water for the next one. Typically, I allow 3 days or more to prepare the water (cycle with air and pump for a day or so, add mix and cycle for another day or more). Given my situation, how much should I shortcut on the water preparation? Thoughts????

 

[puffer32]

Run a power head afew hrs and if the salt is disolved, do the change.

 

[sw65galma]

Get a gcfi breaker or a powerstrip with GCFI, Imagine one day the same thing happends and you hapend to have been barefoot and stick your hand into the water.....ZAAAAP!!!
Also this would have prevent your voltage leak, it would have kicked off the power...

 

[trippclark]

Well, I have done one 12 gallon water change so far (tank is 55; sump and refugium are about 10 gallons). I am preparing another 12 gallons now to change tonight, then I'll start water for another 12 gallons in the morning.
Plans are to get a copper test kit (tomorrow?) and keep changing until reading of 0, but I suspect that I am very near 0 already.
Still very few of the corals are open, and those that are appear "stunted" and not fully extended.
Other inverts -- brittle star, shrimp, etc. appear okay so far.
Any other suggestions????

 

[thegrog]

If you are worried about copper, try putting CupriSorb into your filter. Only costs like $8 and much better at removing copper than polyfilters. Even turns green when copper is absorbed.....and it is reusable.
Personally, I think it was the electricity rather than the copper that stunned your corals. They are very sensitive to that.....far more sensitive than fish. If it was copper, the shrimp would have been affected too as they are very sensitive to copper just like corals.
Hold off on tomorrows water change (tonights if not too late), but mix the water and let it age a bit so you don't shock your system with pH swings. The fact that some corals are opening is a good sign. Keep watching it. Get the test kits. Test the full spectrum (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, Alk, copper) DAILY for the next week. If any of the parameters goes out of whack (except pH), go with the 10% water changes every other day (let the water mix for it least 24 hours with an airstone prior to adding it).
Also, I would contact the manufacturer about the powerhead. Sounds defective. They are usually pretty reliable and one going bad like that sounds strange. It least get a new one.
In the future, get a titanium grounding probe for your tank. It could have been worse, you could have reached into the tank and gotten the shock of your life!!!!!

 

[trippclark]

Thanks Grog! I had already done the night water change but have not done one this morning. I'll hold off and let the water age some on this one. I hope you are right about electricity being the culprit. That was my first suspect also, before noticing the blue color in the poly filter. I'll look for CupriSorb at my LFS.
I do have a grounding probe in the sump. It has been in place for 8 years or more. I assume it is still functioning. When I pulled out the pump I received was no electrical shock that I could feel at all.
Tripp

 

[thegrog]

Originally Posted by trippclark
Thanks Grog! I had already done the night water change but have not done one this morning. I'll hold off and let the water age some on this one. I hope you are right about electricity being the culprit. That was my first suspect also, before noticing the blue color in the poly filter. I'll look for CupriSorb at my LFS.
I do have a grounding probe in the sump. It has been in place for 8 years or more. I assume it is still functioning. When I pulled out the pump I received was no electrical shock that I could feel at all.
Tripp
Very strange indeed.
You may want to check your grounding probe to see if it is still good. 8 years is a while. Just because you didn't feel a shock, does not mean there was not stray current there. May have been too little to feel but enough to stun your corals.
also, I believe that polyfilters usually turn green when they pull out copper, not blue. Hmmmm. :notsure: Change it out and see what you pull out now.
Still do the full battery of tests including copper. If you don't find any copper after two tests, that is definately not the culprit.

 

[trippclark]

No luck yesterday finding a copper test kit or cuprasorb. My local fish store is anything but LOCAL and has very limited Sunday hours. The best I could do yesterday was Petsmart and they had neither available (no surprise there).
Most of my green star polyps are back; probably 60% or more. All of my ricordia and about half of the yellow polyps appear to be alive, but are still not fully open. My zoos (brown and green eyed) seem most impacted and show little if any sign of life at all. All are closed up, and most are closed up tight.
I have now lost two fish -- my first fish losses this year -- both firefish are dead. I am not sre what killed them. Certainly not copper; maybe the stress from any electrical or just the two 20% water changes in one day.
Tonight, I expect to have the copper test kit and will conduct a full range of tests.
Tripp

 

[thegrog]

Sorry to hear for your losses.

The stresses of the water changes could have affected the fish. That much water that quickly (if it is not aged) could have caused a pH swing that they couldn't take in their already stressed condition.
Keep updates coming and we'll get through this and find the culprit.
Get another polyfilter too.

 

[druluv]

Along with all the great ideas, I would run some carbon, to soak up any impurities.

 

[trippclark]

Here is today's update. First off, no more losses that I can see :jumping:
As far as condition of corals, green star polyps are continuing to show improvement as are yellow polyps. Zoos continue to be stunned. Some are half closed and some are closed very tight. At least the half closed ones appear to be alive and respond to stimuli (I squirted water at them with a turkey baster and they retracted and then opened back up partially again).
I went to the LFS and they are SOLD OUT of copper test kits

This is just not meant to be, I guess. They do have a kit there, so tomorrow I will take some water for them to test. I should have done that anyway.
I purchased there and have added to my sump a Chemi-pure bag/media unit to further filter out any impurities ("extra high grade" carbon + other "stuff").
I also tonight ran a full series of tests (except for copper of course). Here are the results:
Salinity = 36/37 or 1.026/1.027 (This is slightly above my normal goal of 35/1.025. I'll adjust this down over the next couple of days)
PH = 8.0 (This is well below my norm of 8.3. I added the last of my Marine Buffer with Saturday's two big water changes and ordered more today, but it will not arrive for a week. I'll buy more tomorrow at LFS and adjust this immediately)
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0
dKH/KH = 9 (My goal is 11. I added 15ML Kent Pro Buffer dKH. Will check again tomorrow.)
Phosphate = 0
Calcium = 380 (My goal is 440. I added three spoons of Tropic Marin Bio Calcium. Will continue to add at increased rate until goal is reached again.)
Of the above tests, the biggest "out of whack" reading, to me, is PH. I cannot remember the last time my PH was that low!! So, could that alone be causing the Zoos to be drawn up? Is there a chance that correcting the PH **MIGHT** cause whatever corals did survive the powerhead burn up to make a comeback and open back up?? How do corals normally react to PH that low???

 

[thegrog]

The pH is the problem from what I can see at this point. A low pH in itself wont kill the corals, but a swing from a very stable 8.3 to 8.0 can definately shock them. They come from the ocean where the pH only changes over years, not hours. Your quick, large water changes with unaged water probably caused the pH to swing, putting further stress on the corals. In hindsite, perhaps the wrong decision to make but I feel that given the situation, you made the right one at the time so don't beat yourself up over it.
What you will want to do is slowly get the parameters back. Avoid quick swings of any parameter, this is more stressful than the parameter itself. You want to get the pH, and SG back. Don't worry about the calcium right now, it's in range. I would do this by using aged water for changes. Put an airstone in there for it least 48 hours. Check the pH of the water before doing the change. If it is low, add a little buffer. If it is high, let it age another day. Mix the water with a SG of around 1.022 to help lower that parameter. Also, add a little buffer to your topoffs daily...not a lot....a little. I prefer Seachem Reef Buffer. Great for keeping the pH at 8.3. You will also want to keep an eye on your dkh. If that starts getting low, you will be more prone to pH swings. You may have to add a carbonate to keep it up. It's fine now, but watch it.
The fact that your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are zero is a very good sign. Shows me that nothing is dying/dead right now. Keep an eye on it.
I think your tank is on it's way to recovery. May take a few more days, but it is headding there.

Keep up with the updates!

 

[ophiura]

I think you are doing everything right....
But GOOD LUCK getting anything out of RIO. Do a search for some recent threads on them and see that they are not getting favorable customer service reviews. Many stores will not carry them anymore because they do not tend to honor their warranty - which isn't very long if I recall. Anyway, it is unfortunately becoming a common story I am afraid

 

[trippclark]

Originally Posted by ophiura
I think you are doing everything right....
But GOOD LUCK getting anything out of RIO. Do a search for some recent threads on them and see that they are not getting favorable customer service reviews. Many stores will not carry them anymore because they do not tend to honor their warranty - which isn't very long if I recall. Anyway, it is unfortunately becoming a common story I am afraid
Honestly, I really am not looking for anything from Rio. The best they may do is replace the powerhead for free, and it only cost me about $15 online (it is a very small pump). They have replied and do want to see the damaged powerhead to examine it. I'll mail it this week. The real long term damage is the deaths in the tank (probably not just those that are visible). That will take months/years and lots of dollars. I chalk it up to a manufacturer defect. It happens. I understand that. It is still a bummer.

 

[trippclark]

Well folks, I just got back from the LFS. They tested for copper and found it "zero or near zero"

I also asked them to run full tests to compare against my tests (listed in earlier post). The ones that they found that were DIFFERENT from my results were:
PH = 8.0 - 8.1 (my results was 8.0 . . . minor variance, but still low)
Nitrate = 12 or less (I tested at 0. I am guessing that theirs is right since 0 is pretty tough to achieve)
Calcium = 420 (my test said 380, but then I added three spoons of Tropic marin Bio Calcium . . . this amount should, however, only raised it about 5ppm, not 40. Regardless, at 385 - 420 I consider this acceptable if not absolutely ideal . . . and 420 is getting close to ideal)
As discussed earlier, I bought another bottle of Seachem Marine Buffer, which I'll start using tonight to try to slowly bring the PH back up to 8.3.
Thanks for all the advise.

 

[trippclark]

Well, it turns out that I only lost ONE firefish, not two as I thought. I had only found one carcass, but had not seen either of the two for 36 hours or so. Well, the second firefish showed up last night, swimming around the tank!

Maybe he was grieving. :thinking:
The bad news is that my Royal Gramma appears very stressed. He is staying in his cave and will not come out -- even for food. Things don't look good. I have not removed him to the hospital tank for fear that may just add to the stress. I don't think we are dealing with a disease here.

 

[thegrog]

Glad to hear about the firefish. Mine went MIA for a week after I moved it to the new tank. They hide when stressed. Gammas do to from what I know but have not experienced them personally (yet). They can survive well over a week without food so just keep offering. You are right on keeping it put, more likely to recover that way.
Glad to hear on the copper levels. The nitrates are fine as long as they are under 20. One or two water changes should clear that up. No worries on the calcium levels.
Have you tested alkalinity (KH)?? Should be 8-12 dkh. This will help your pH stabalize although with a calcium of 420, I would suspect it is fine.
You may want to consider investing in a digital pH meter. Since I got mine, I have never looked back! No need to distinguish color shades any more! With calibration solution, I know it is accurate too!! Plus it takes all of 2 seconds to test!
If you do get another powerhead out of RIO, use it for aging water and keep it out of your tank!!! That is what mine is doing!
You are doing great and keep up with the updates!