I told you it would never happen

stdreb27

Active Member
Senate Democrats huddled behind closed doors for one hour on Thursday trying to figure out what to do about the expiring Bush tax cuts. With no consensus emerging, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., decided to postpone a vote until after the election.
"Democrats believe we must permanently extend tax cuts for the middle-class before they expire at the end of the year, and we will.," Reid spkesman Jim Manley said in a written statement that blamed the GOP for the delay. "Democrats will not allow families in Nevada and across the country to suffer or be held hostage by Republicans who would rather give tax giveaways to millionaires and corporations that ship jobs overseas. We will come back in November and stay in session as long as it takes to get this done."
Sen Chris Dodd, D-CT, told reporters, "I think there are strong views being held. I, for one, subscribe to the notion that we ought to have a vote to extend the tax cuts for those that really need them and stop those for the ones who don't," Dodd said, but he quickly added, "There's a mixed view. Tax policy is not our strongest political argument with the national public. We know that. It's a divided caucus. That's not uncommon."
Several Democrats advocated for a delay, saying it is the one way to ensure politics does not enter into the equation. Republicans want to extend all of the tax cuts and are poised to pounce on any bill that falls short, as well as any member who does not support their position.
One senior Senate Democratic leadership aide told Fox that Republicans bear some of the blame, as well, "It's not as cut and dry as our people don't want to do them. We do. But people don't want to walk the plank if Republicans aren't going to play ball."
"It's just better that we wait. Nothing has to be done before the end of the year. It's clear, we're not for a $4 trillion tax loss. What we want is tax extensions for the middle class," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who said earlier that she could also support a compromise that woulid temporarily extend the top two tax brackets for two years.
Sen Bob Menendez, D-NJ. head of the Democrats' campaign effort, had no problem with a delay, either. "What's important is that the tax cuts get done by the end of the year and that the be effective for next year. That's what's important. Everything else is just semantics," Menendez concluded.
Sen. Mark Pryor, D-Ark, whose fellow Arkansan, Blanche Lincoln, is in an extremely tough fight for re-election against a former GOP congressman, said, "I think it's probably better to do it after, just because right now, everything is so political, and it's hard to get anything done without a lot of politics."
Lincoln, for her part, said she did not advocate any position in the closed door meeting but is fine with a delay. "I think it's reasonable and certainly important for the economy to be able to extend the low and middle income tax cuts. And I think if it's done responsibly, we can also extend the higher ones. But it has to be done responsibly," Lincoln said, adding, "I think it's abundantly clear to the American people that we're coming back after the election." When asked what "responsibly" meant, the senator demurred, "That's a good question. That's a good debate."
Sen Tom Carper, D-DE, said he wants a vote now, but he is willing to wait if it will help the more vulnerable members of his caucus. "I'm ready to vote now. But I think we should consider the golden rule, and that is to treat other people the way we would want to be treated, and that includes our colleagues."
 
Sen Patty Murray, D-Wash, among those vulnerable Democrats this cycle, blew by reporters saying only, "I want (tax cuts) done by the end of the year."
Democrats appear to be setting aside nearly a month or more for a lame duck session. Sen Byron Dorgan, D-ND, said Democrats are poised to return for "most of the month of December," and Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., added that one legislative week in November is now also on the calendar.
 
Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/09/23/senate-democrats-divided-taxes-put-issue-until-after-election-day#ixzz10SZHCTAI
 

reefraff

Active Member
God these Democrats are STUPID. Don't they read polls. They could have extended them all 1 year and took away a Republican rallying cry.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312560
God these Democrats are STUPID. Don't they read polls. They could have extended them all 1 year and took away a Republican rallying cry.
They are missing the whole point of this delay. They are waiting till november to vote on it because they will let them all expire. The elections will be done, so it won't matter then what they do. They plan to let them expire. They are blaming the GOP for the delay...seriously? Last I saw there was a majority of dems and no filibuster by the GOP....so how are they delaying?
 

stdreb27

Active Member
If they win they can say see we don't really have to do it. If they loose they don't have to worry about anything anyway. And the whole time saying oh we want to "cut" taxes When even if they extend them wouldn't be cutting the taxes at all...
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312568
They are missing the whole point of this delay. They are waiting till november to vote on it because they will let them all expire. The elections will be done, so it won't matter then what they do. They plan to let them expire. They are blaming the GOP for the delay...seriously? Last I saw there was a majority of dems and no filibuster by the GOP....so how are they delaying?
I am not so sure we wont see a temper tantrum by Dems if they should lose power in November. I could see them trying to pass amnesty and letting the taxes go up just to thumb their nose at the American people
 

fishtaco

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312571
I am not so sure we wont see a temper tantrum by Dems if they should lose power in November. I could see them trying to pass amnesty and letting the taxes go up just to thumb their nose at the American people
Would that be the same temper tantrum that the Republicans have thrown since they where voted out of office en masse about two years ago? Someday I am really hoping against hope that you will understand that both parties suck equally. That was so awesome yesterday watching all the movers and shakers presenting the "Pledge" yesterday with their jackets and ties taken off and sleeves rolled up pretending that they represent or could give a crap about the average middle-class American. Regardless of party, everytime I see a group of people from Congress doing this all I think is this is a one person job and the rest of you get your butts back to your desks and go to work.
 
Fishtaco
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312582
Would that be the same temper tantrum that the Republicans have thrown since they where voted out of office en masse about two years ago? Someday I am really hoping against hope that you will understand that both parties suck equally. That was so awesome yesterday watching all the movers and shakers presenting the "Pledge" yesterday with their jackets and ties taken off and sleeves rolled up pretending that they represent or could give a crap about the average middle-class American. Regardless of party, everytime I see a group of people from Congress doing this all I think is this is a one person job and the rest of you get your butts back to your desks and go to work.
 
Fishtaco
Republicans lost congress in 2006 That would be 3 years and 11 months ago. Trying to stop Obama's march to Marxism isn't a temper tantrum, it's an act of patriotism.

 
Which is more sucky, the party that is trying to expand dysfunctional government on the one that at least claims they want to make the government smaller?
 
 

bionicarm

Active Member
I want to know where all the money will come to pay for these extended tax breaks. They are saying if the tax breaks continue for just one more year, it'll INCREASE the deficit cllose to $500 BILLION. Continuing it on a permanent basis will see a deficit in the TRILLIONS over the next several years. You Obama haters claim he's spending this country into oblivion, but you have no problems with tax incentives doing the same. Hypocrasy at its finest...
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312959
I want to know where all the money will come to pay for these extended tax breaks. They are saying if the tax breaks continue for just one more year, it'll INCREASE the deficit cllose to $500 BILLION. Continuing it on a permanent basis will see a deficit in the TRILLIONS over the next several years. You Obama haters claim he's spending this country into oblivion, but you have no problems with tax incentives doing the same. Hypocrasy at its finest...
Tax rate cuts don't cost the government a penny. IT ISN"T THEIR MONEY.
 
Letting the tax rates go up right now will hurt revenue more in the long run. They are going to ave to raise taxes at some point but they need to raise them on everyone (including me) not just the "rich"
 

deejeff442

Active Member
i must not understand .dont the dems want taxes to go up to pay for the blunders they created?like paying for the 30 million people that cant afford health coverage?bailing out banks that arent paying back?one thing i did like out of obama probably the only thing so far is sending money to countries for disaster relief only if down the road the are a help to us back and not help countries that are useless to us.i am fine with that
 

spanko

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312959
I want to know where all the money will come to pay for these extended tax breaks. They are saying if the tax breaks continue for just one more year, it'll INCREASE the deficit cllose to $500 BILLION. Continuing it on a permanent basis will see a deficit in the TRILLIONS over the next several years. You Obama haters claim he's spending this country into oblivion, but you have no problems with tax incentives doing the same. Hypocrasy at its finest...
Forget the money to pay for spending, think cutting the spending so you don; need the money in the first place.
 
 

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312959
I want to know where all the money will come to pay for these extended tax breaks. They are saying if the tax breaks continue for just one more year, it'll INCREASE the deficit cllose to $500 BILLION. Continuing it on a permanent basis will see a deficit in the TRILLIONS over the next several years. You Obama haters claim he's spending this country into oblivion, but you have no problems with tax incentives doing the same. Hypocrasy at its finest...
I will agree with your premise that the deficit is out of control and needs to be reduced to the point where it's negative.
 
But historically, raising tax rates has not resulted in an increase in revenue and often results in an even larger deficit as politicians feel the need to increase spending when tax rates climb.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312998
I will agree with your premise that the deficit is out of control and needs to be reduced to the point where it's negative.
 
But historically, raising tax rates has not resulted in an increase in revenue and often results in an even larger deficit as politicians feel the need to increase spending when tax rates climb.
Not to mention raising taxes during a recession and a time of economic instability will send the economy backwards as well. If I am taxed higher am I spending more into the economy or less?
 
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3312968
Tax rate cuts don't cost the government a penny. IT ISN"T THEIR MONEY.
 
Letting the tax rates go up right now will hurt revenue more in the long run. They are going to ave to raise taxes at some point but they need to raise them on everyone (including me) not just the "rich"
When you have fewer taxes coming in, you have less money to pay for vital services. In order to pay for those services, you end up borrowing more money, INCREASING THE DEFICIT. Yes, you could cut government spending, but where? If you had it your way, we'd close national parks, let the national highway system go to crap, and completely get rid of Welfare. That isn't realistic. If you think ANY politician, no matter which side of the fence they are on, is going to do away with Pork Barrel Legislation, then you obviously no nothing about Washington politics. The "pork" is what gets them re-elected. Send as much money as you possibly can back home, keeps the constiuents and voters happy. You honestly think the rich will do this massive 'boycott' in spending just because their tax rate went up another 3%? Most of them spend that on a weekend vacation. Look at this kid that owns Facebook. He just gave some NY school system $100 MILLION for improvements. Oprah is flying 300+ people to Australia on her ticket for some useless promo. Couple years ago, she gave the entire audience a car. Warren Buffet auctions off a Lunch Date, and some rich dude dropped over 30 Grand to win it. Bill Gates tosses millions to charities as if it were candy. Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan snort their 3% up their nose. No, you just watch the sob stories you see on Fox News about the poor little businessman that can't hire more people because the Mean Obama-Led Government is taking another 3% of his hard-earned money out of his pocket. Got news for you, that little tax increase will hit me and several other businessmen I know, and not one of us is planning to slow down anytime soon. I just hired a couple more guys last week for a new government project I picked up. I end up getting my 3% back just from that project alone. A close friend of mine is opening a new restaurant as we speak, and is hiring over 100 new employees. Kohl's just opened a new Call Center in town, and is looking for over 1000 new employees. On the flip side, you're GOP "Pledge To America" is wanting to put a freeze on all Federal jobs. How high will unemployment go with that great idea? Sorry, I'm not joining your little pity party about taxes going up.
 

reefraff

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3313005
When you have fewer taxes coming in, you have less money to pay for vital services. In order to pay for those services, you end up borrowing more money, INCREASING THE DEFICIT. Yes, you could cut government spending, but where? If you had it your way, we'd close national parks, let the national highway system go to crap, and completely get rid of Welfare. That isn't realistic. If you think ANY politician, no matter which side of the fence they are on, is going to do away with Pork Barrel Legislation, then you obviously no nothing about Washington politics. The "pork" is what gets them re-elected. Send as much money as you possibly can back home, keeps the constiuents and voters happy. You honestly think the rich will do this massive 'boycott' in spending just because their tax rate went up another 3%? Most of them spend that on a weekend vacation. Look at this kid that owns Facebook. He just gave some NY school system $100 MILLION for improvements. Oprah is flying 300+ people to Australia on her ticket for some useless promo. Couple years ago, she gave the entire audience a car. Warren Buffet auctions off a Lunch Date, and some rich dude dropped over 30 Grand to win it. Bill Gates tosses millions to charities as if it were candy. Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan snort their 3% up their nose. No, you just watch the sob stories you see on Fox News about the poor little businessman that can't hire more people because the Mean Obama-Led Government is taking another 3% of his hard-earned money out of his pocket. Got news for you, that little tax increase will hit me and several other businessmen I know, and not one of us is planning to slow down anytime soon. I just hired a couple more guys last week for a new government project I picked up. I end up getting my 3% back just from that project alone. A close friend of mine is opening a new restaurant as we speak, and is hiring over 100 new employees. Kohl's just opened a new Call Center in town, and is looking for over 1000 new employees. On the flip side, you're GOP "Pledge To America" is wanting to put a freeze on all Federal jobs. How high will unemployment go with that great idea? Sorry, I'm not joining your little pity party about taxes going up.
I like national parks. Now if it comes down to cutting national security or national parks that's a no brainer, we aint there just yet. Also not sure where the park's budgets are at but the user fees might make them self supporting at this point so all closing them down would do is put more people out of work, JUST LIKE RAISING TAXES.
 
I'm sure you aren't worried. You did say you get your business from the government right? There's a big difference between adding to the yearly debt by increasing the size of government which we have to pay for in years to come, and allowing people to keep more of their own money. As I said before taxes are going to have to go up but just not right now. We are also going to have to seriously cut federal welfare and social programs too, just not right now. I just fear the same thing will happen that has after every other economic slowdown I've lived through. Revenues increase and the feds go on a spending spree.
 
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3313005
When you have fewer taxes coming in, you have less money to pay for vital services. In order to pay for those services, you end up borrowing more money, INCREASING THE DEFICIT. Yes, you could cut government spending, but where? If you had it your way, we'd close national parks, let the national highway system go to crap, and completely get rid of Welfare. That isn't realistic. If you think ANY politician, no matter which side of the fence they are on, is going to do away with Pork Barrel Legislation, then you obviously no nothing about Washington politics. The "pork" is what gets them re-elected. Send as much money as you possibly can back home, keeps the constiuents and voters happy. You honestly think the rich will do this massive 'boycott' in spending just because their tax rate went up another 3%? Most of them spend that on a weekend vacation. Look at this kid that owns Facebook. He just gave some NY school system $100 MILLION for improvements. Oprah is flying 300+ people to Australia on her ticket for some useless promo. Couple years ago, she gave the entire audience a car. Warren Buffet auctions off a Lunch Date, and some rich dude dropped over 30 Grand to win it. Bill Gates tosses millions to charities as if it were candy. Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan snort their 3% up their nose. No, you just watch the sob stories you see on Fox News about the poor little businessman that can't hire more people because the Mean Obama-Led Government is taking another 3% of his hard-earned money out of his pocket. Got news for you, that little tax increase will hit me and several other businessmen I know, and not one of us is planning to slow down anytime soon. I just hired a couple more guys last week for a new government project I picked up. I end up getting my 3% back just from that project alone. A close friend of mine is opening a new restaurant as we speak, and is hiring over 100 new employees. Kohl's just opened a new Call Center in town, and is looking for over 1000 new employees. On the flip side, you're GOP "Pledge To America" is wanting to put a freeze on all Federal jobs. How high will unemployment go with that great idea? Sorry, I'm not joining your little pity party about taxes going up.
You keep talking about the tax cut percentage of the rich, but not the rest of the classes. Why is that?
 
How many small business owners truly fall in the top 2%? I know I dont, neither do the owners of the 6 businesses on my block.
 
Your 3% increase in taxes doesn't compare to the increase your business just created to the defecit. Your business relys heavily on government spending...so you won't see an affect on your business from the effects on the private sector. But 75% of the small businesses around the country would. If EVERYONE has there taxes go up, it means they spend less in the stores...meaning less revenue for those stores, meaning less sales tax revenue. meaning less capital for enployment for the small business owner, especially if his taxes go up as well.
 
A raise in taxes will cause a raise in unemployment. happens everytime.
 
Example showing our unemplyment rate now.
90 people make 100 dollars a day. they pay 40 dollars per check in taxes. This is 3600 dollars in revenue a day.
 
(shows example of 90 out of 100 unemployed 10% unemployment)
 
95 out of 100 pay 38 dollars in taxes.(5% tax decrease) 3610 dollars a day....
 
Lower unemployment through lower taxes brings in more federal revenue...This is a proven policy.
 
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3313005
When you have fewer taxes coming in, you have less money to pay for vital services. In order to pay for those services, you end up borrowing more money, INCREASING THE DEFICIT. Yes, you could cut government spending, but where? If you had it your way, we'd close national parks, let the national highway system go to crap, and completely get rid of Welfare. That isn't realistic. If you think ANY politician, no matter which side of the fence they are on, is going to do away with Pork Barrel Legislation, then you obviously no nothing about Washington politics. The "pork" is what gets them re-elected. Send as much money as you possibly can back home, keeps the constiuents and voters happy. You honestly think the rich will do this massive 'boycott' in spending just because their tax rate went up another 3%? Most of them spend that on a weekend vacation. Look at this kid that owns Facebook. He just gave some NY school system $100 MILLION for improvements. Oprah is flying 300+ people to Australia on her ticket for some useless promo. Couple years ago, she gave the entire audience a car. Warren Buffet auctions off a Lunch Date, and some rich dude dropped over 30 Grand to win it. Bill Gates tosses millions to charities as if it were candy. Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan snort their 3% up their nose. No, you just watch the sob stories you see on Fox News about the poor little businessman that can't hire more people because the Mean Obama-Led Government is taking another 3% of his hard-earned money out of his pocket. Got news for you, that little tax increase will hit me and several other businessmen I know, and not one of us is planning to slow down anytime soon. I just hired a couple more guys last week for a new government project I picked up. I end up getting my 3% back just from that project alone. A close friend of mine is opening a new restaurant as we speak, and is hiring over 100 new employees. Kohl's just opened a new Call Center in town, and is looking for over 1000 new employees. On the flip side, you're GOP "Pledge To America" is wanting to put a freeze on all Federal jobs. How high will unemployment go with that great idea? Sorry, I'm not joining your little pity party about taxes going up.
Just over 50% of our yearly budget goes to welfare, social security, unemployment, medicare/medicaid, and a few other social programs.
 
Highway maintanance/transportation department and federal parks account for 2-3% total.
 
Military and homeland security account for 20%
 
This IS NOT including the new healthcare program.
 
 
what is the new restaurant called...my parents are in texas visiting and I will be heading that way around christmas, I will visit.
 

deejeff442

Active Member
first off you could cut free medical to illigals.my wife works for a big hospital that is government run.3/4 of the people in the door give fake id's and ss numbers.3/4 of the babies born there are illigal.none of them pay a dime.they know when they walk in the door the system.what do you think this costs us?
they now have put a freeze on raises because the hospital dont bring in eneough paying patients to afford one to them.
also agree 100% with darth. more employed=more tax revenue dont get any more simple than that.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3313020
 
Just over 50% of our yearly budget goes to welfare, social security, unemployment, medicare/medicaid, and a few other social programs.
 
Highway maintanance/transportation department and federal parks account for 2-3% total.
 
Military and homeland security account for 20%
 
This IS NOT including the new healthcare program.
 
 
what is the new restaurant called...my parents are in texas visiting and I will be heading that way around christmas, I will visit.
Z Tejas at La Cantera. They're a big hit up in Austin. I think they originate out of Cali. It's more of a Southwestern-Style Mexican. Not the normal TexMex you get here in San Antonio. Their specialty are their Margaritas. They have one that has I think two tequilas and three different liqueurs. I had one up in Austin, and I hardly made it out the door.
I think he has a soft opening late October, and should be up and running in November.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380574/i-told-you-it-would-never-happen#post_3313056
Z Tejas at La Cantera. They're a big hit up in Austin. I think they originate out of Cali. It's more of a Southwestern-Style Mexican. Not the normal TexMex you get here in San Antonio. Their specialty are their Margaritas. They have one that has I think two tequilas and three different liqueurs. I had one up in Austin, and I hardly made it out the door.
I think he has a soft opening late October, and should be up and running in November.
I will definitely stop in when I come out that way.
 
Top