ich:always there or introduced?

[deejeff442]

curious what everyone thinks.
personally i feel ich is always in the tank or in a fish.
just takes some stress of something to trigger it.
some believe it has to be introduced.
i have had tangs for a long time and they go years without ich.
i have moved rock around and have seen some ich on them and they fight it off.

 

[al mc]

It is a parasite with a known life cycle and can be eliminated by using hyposalinity or copper in a QT with the fish and removing the host needed to complete it's life cycle from your DT (the fish) for 6 weeks.
It is not always present, and if present, can be eliminated.
There is a theory that in a closed system (meaning you add no additional fish, sand, inverts, rock, plants,etc. beyond what you already have in the tank) that the Ich will eventually die (it would take several generations of the Ich life cycle). I do not subscribe to this theory. Just thought I would add something to the mix.

 

[deejeff442]

i figured this is a touchy subject.
i can say talking to reefers for many years i get a 50/50 on opinions if it is always there or has to be introduced.
i can say there has been times i went years without ich then water got bad or something and ich poped up with out adding anything to the tank.
now,maybe i put something in a year or two earlier that had ich but never poped up because there was no stress and the fish were healthy then just moving rock brought it on.
dont know.

 

[cranberry]

Al is correct. It isn't a personal opinion, it's a fact of the life cycle and of the obligate fish feeding behaviour of the parasite that makes it true.
There is a very good chance, if you don't hypo your fish, they have ich on them somewhere. But not all fish 100% have it, but most do by the time they get to us and the number of systems and fish they encounter along the way.
But I will have an ichless tank. The tank will be fallow for two months during it's cycle. All the fish to go into the tank will be treated... all of them. Not a rock, or a macro or coral will go into this tank without a 6 week fallow period.

 

[cranberry]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/3053166
There is a theory that in a closed system (meaning you add no additional fish, sand, inverts, rock, plants,etc. beyond what you already have in the tank) that the Ich will eventually die (it would take several generations of the Ich life cycle). I do not subscribe to this theory. Just thought I would add something to the mix.
I've heard this too and know for a FACT that it is hogwash unless the burn out period is greater than 2 years. What have you heard. Do you remember any sources to see if they are ones I already read or not.

 

[jpa0741]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3053183
Al is correct. It isn't a personal opinion, it's a fact of the life cycle and of the obligate fish feeding behaviour of the parasite that makes it true.
There is a very good chance, if you don't hypo your fish, they have ich on them somewhere. But not all fish 100% have it, but most do by the time they get to us and the number of systems and fish they encounter along the way.
But I will have an ichless tank. The tank will be fallow for two months during it's cycle. All the fish to go into the tank will be treated... all of them. Not a rock, or a macro or coral will go into this tank without a 6 week fallow period.
Yes. That is the only way to get a an ICH free tank. That is just way too impractical for me. It would take me 20 years to have filled my tank to where it is now. Everytime you add something to the QT you have to start over. I live by the rule that you keep your fish well fed with vitamins and garlic and stress free then they will be fine.
So to answer the OP question I say 99% of people will always have ICH in their system.

 

[cranberry]

The fish going in my tank are 15 scorps/waspfish. 3 of them share the DNA of a stonefish... I'm not going fishing around in the pool of venom trying to remove them at a later date. Out of my 12 tanks, this will be the only one I will go through this effort for.

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3053185
I've heard this too and know for a FACT that it is hogwash unless the burn out period is greater than 2 years. What have you heard. Do you remember any sources to see if they are ones I already read or not.
CBerry...I will look for the reference. I recall it does take many many life cylces before it can no longer reproduce. Al

 

[u mike]

hey can I jump in here. As you may have read I am going through ick right now . Speaking to my lfs who also belives in fresh water dips & hypo , even he has told me not to buy med the only thing we talked about was copper. Anyway our conversations lately have been about ick , he feels pretty positive ick lives in all tanks , as stress will cause the outbreak. I also agree with the stress part as my tank was running great for years until I rushed to do water change . Then my problems started. He slao told me never to use any water from where you buy fish from, as most places use copper in water at some point . just something I am learning as i go . if I am out of place always looking to be corrected feelings and pride will not be hurt , we all have to learn somehow.

 

[cranberry]

Originally Posted by u mike
http:///forum/post/3053306
Then my problems started. He slao told me never to use any water from where you buy fish from, as most places use copper in water at some point . just something I am learning as i go . if I am out of place always looking to be corrected feelings and pride will not be hurt , we all have to learn somehow.
No such thing as out of place... join in the discussion.
A lot of places use copper now. The wholesalers here in Cali, where y'alls fish come from, also has copper in it. I'm not sure of the level, we were just warned to not mix the invert and fish water. This is a new thing (in the last year) and I'm not sure how wide spread the usage is.

 

[al mc]

CBerry..Like the new avitar....I can not find the reference we were discussing in this thread. Will keep looking. May have been something I read and neglected to save.

 

[florida joe]

In my opinion (as you all know by now I always have one). YES ick may very well be present in your tank for as long as you have it up and running> BUT that is because you never eradicated it from your tank in the first place or reintroduced it to your DT. IMO I believe the ick parasite (which we are talking about and not another white spot parasite. Has a 6-week life cycle. If you leave your DT fallow for six week you will have an ick free tank. If you treat your sick fish and eradicate it from you QT/HT there is no way you can have ick back in your DT

 

[lion_crazz]

I agree that ich could always be there if never properly eradicated.
As stated, ich is a parasite. It can not show up unless it was introduced. It is not something that arrives from nothing.

 

[spanko]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/3058131
I agree that ich could always be there if never properly eradicated.
As stated, ich is a parasite. It can not show up unless it was introduced. It is not something that arrives from nothing.
+1 here. You could start a system with base rock, like Tufa say, dry sand and saltwater. Intorduce an ammonia source to begin the biofiltration cycle and upon the cycle being complete there would be no parasite. If you were then careful to QT all additions from then on, fish, coral, inverts. alge etc and were assured that none of the fish had Ich during any of that time then you could have an Ich free tank.

 

[jackri]

+1000
You HAVE TO INTRODUCE it to your tank for there to be ich... years ago they thought that maggots "just appeared" from raw meat (like 100+ years ago).
A scientist did some experiments that if the meat was kept sterile no maggots appeared.. while flies landing on the other meat produced maggots -- thus introducing them. Ich doesn't come out of thin air.