Ich deaths need help

aquiman

aquiman

Member
Hi all. I have a 90g fish and live rock tank with bad Ich for a while now. Having had past success with Kick Ich, I tried it again but not such good success this time. I set up a QT but was only able to catch 4 fish and 2 have died in QT. Using Cupramine in the QT and after a few days my P Puffer and Niger Trigger seem to be holding their own. In the DT I still have a Hippo & yellow Tang, huma huma trigger, snowflake eel, sand sifting Goby and a Xmas Blenny with two star fish. The tangs and Goby have it bad and the huma huma is flashing. I didn't want to stress them further so I decide to try and treat in the DT continuing with kick Ich and also Rally since I thought it could be velvet and also saw some fins rotting.... Anyway, I've learned a few things along the way and will do things different should it happen again... But for now, I'm wondering what to do next based on the treatments given so far.
* Should I get them out of the DT and into QT? This would be a treatment change - not sure if its a bad move.
* Should I stay the course?
* Is it too late to try Hypo?
* should I try a fresh water dip?
UV running in DT with Skimmer off
I'm lost. Please help. Thanks
:sad:
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Personally if you have leafy started treating die rush in qt. I think the best may be to get te fish in the dt back to healthy if possible. Get te fish in qt to cured. Put tem in a seperate tank in 4 weeks and treat te remaining fish in qt with te cupramine. Leave the dt fishless for at least 8 weeks, so you will essentially have a hospital tank, a qt tank and your display going at teams time.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Remove your live rock, and inverts you have, to a holding tank provided with a pump (and heater if necessary), then treat your fish with hyposalinity in the display tank.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Remove your live rock, and inverts you have, to a holding tank provided with a pump (and heater if necessary), then treat your fish with hyposalinity in the display tank.
Won't that wipe out all bacteria on the sand and filtration?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstdv8 http:///t/395252/ich-deaths-need-help#post_3518712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395252/ich-deaths-need-help#post_3518709
Remove your live rock, and inverts you have, to a holding tank provided with a pump (and heater if necessary), then treat your fish with hyposalinity in the display tank.
Won't that wipe out all bacteria on the sand and filtration?
Not at all. However, any inverts living in the sandbed will be affected. I have tested brittle stars and bristleworms in hypo. They can survive. If you can use a refractometer and keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite, then you should be fine. Maybe keep a few smaller pieces of rubble rock and add some fake rock or pvc for the fish.
 
aquiman

aquiman

Member
Thanks for the feedback. Forgot to mention that I have live sand too but I guess that stays in DT. I have two orange mitra snails that live in the sand bed so I will take them out. My sump has mud so i will continue to run that for the DT?? As for the uv, i guess that stays on. During hypo, do I leave the skimmer off? In the DT do I stop kick Ich during hypo? For the QT tank with two fish, do I stay with the Cupramine or switch to hypo there too? Sorry lots of questions. Thanks again!
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Put your fish back in the display tank. You can leave your skimmer on, it will not work as a skimmer in hypo, but it will circulate water. Mud is fine. UV can stay on. Kick ich is a big waste of time, so don't use it.
Do you have a refractometer?
In the future, will you quarantine new fish before placing them in the display?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
You're good to go then. Just check ammonia and nitrite levels in the display. Without the rock, you may encounter a cycle. How many fish?
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Also check PH this will drop during hypo. I suggest having a bottle of Amquel+ or Prime on hand to keep ammonia at bay.
 
aquiman

aquiman

Member
Ok thanks for confirming that. I will put the stars and snails with the rock.... Beth is your reference of a pump just for water circulation? Thanks!
 
aquiman

aquiman

Member
Finally got to 1.009 and as you said, PH dropped and ammonia, nitrates and nitrites spiked. Is this due to dieoff in sand bed? Added Amquel and PH buffer to hopefully bring them in line. Any idea how often I need to feed the rocks in separate tank? Thx again.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
You're live rock is one of your biggest filters, and you're system no longer has that. Do small water changes until things stabilizes. Do not raise pH above 8.0 as higher pH makes ammonia more toxic.
I'd feed the rock a pinch daily, or every other day.
 
aquiman

aquiman

Member
Thx Beth. With 90g dt and 10-15 in sump, should I target 5 gals/ day? I currently have huma huma, niger trigger, yellow and hippo tangs, all about 3 inches, an eel, goby and a 4" p puffer. Can I expect things to stabilize at some point and ammonia and nitrites to get close to zero during hypo? Should I continue the Amquel with the water changes? Yellow tang looks 90% better already. Thx
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Ammonia test kits that use Nessler reagents do not work once you use Amquel. Check your test kit to see if it contains Nessler. According to Kordan's website, ammonia test kits using salicylate-type reagents will produce false reading using Amaqel. Kordon's AquaTru Test Kit #35970 for salt water would be combatable for accurate readings. If you don't have this kit, or non salicylate kit, then look for one.
In the meantime, don't continue with Amquel as it will cause pH drops. I believe AmquelPlus has pH stablilers in it.
This is a balancing act between cycling the tank, and still keeping healthy fish. Keep a close watch on fish behavior, eating, swimming, gilling, etc., to measure their health status. Fish experiencing ammonia toxicity will gasp, swim erratically, appear ill overall.
What was the ammonia level pre-Amquel?
5 gal a day is good.
How are the fish doing? Did you leave some rubble rock in the tank for them?
http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/water-conditioner/amquel#contraindications-toxicity!
 
aquiman

aquiman

Member
Thanks Beth. After reaching 1.009 and before the Amquel, the ammonia was .25, the nitrites were 1.0 and the nitrates at 20. Although the Blenny died yesterday and I never saw Ich on him, I'm wondering if the lower salinity or the above levels got to him. The puffer is pretty lethargic. The goby is also lethargic and his fins are in bad shape looking somewhat shredded. Rest of fish seem pretty good (all have ich) and ALL are eating normally. As for the ammonia kit, it is an API kit and I don't know it it uses Nessler. My Seachem kit came in the mail today and it says it works with ammonia removal products. It reads near zero ammonia. I left no rock in the DT tank, just some PVC and an ornamental thing. I removed the rock to spare tanks and the two starfish died in the spare.... No idea why. Really odd that worms of some sort have come out of the live rock and a large amount of them are on the bottom of that spare tank. I hope it's not a sign my live rock will die off. Seems to be at least 50 of them and they all look alive. I have no substrate in the spare but maybe since my water movement in the spare is kinda weak, I'm wondering if that is causing the worms to come out? Any ideas? Thanks very much.
:sad:
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
How quickly did you go into hypo? Days?
If you feed your live rock, and provide adequate water movement, it should be fine. Check ammonia there as well. What is the rock in?
 
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