Ich in my tank and I don't know what to do?

update...
The 29g QT is set-up with the fish in it finally. We received our refractometer and it is great!!! I can't believe how off the hydrometer has been, my salinity is too high in my tanks. I believe the tank got to the stage 4 so I don't know how it is going to go. I lost a fish today, my oldest, I got him when I bought the tank from someone else. I wish we could have gotten everything set up sooner but it took time to get everything done correctly. I have 4 fish in the QT.
I do have a question. According to Beth's directions in the thread you should lower the salinity over 48 hours. How often should you do the small water changes though? I am starting at 1.022.
For example...should I do a 5g change every 6 hours, or more water more often? What do you think?
 

al mc

Active Member
Sorry for your losses. I usually do the SG drop with about 6-8 slight reductions in the salinity over 48 hours. If you are starting at 1.022, then you need to drop the SG by .013 in that period. I would try to get to 1.015 by the end of the first day (3-4 changes)...one every 4-6 hours, then down to 1.009 goal over the next 24 hours.
Most frequent reason for loss, IMO, other than the Ich organism, is a spike in ammonia/nitrite levels in the QT, especially the first few days, because most QTs are not fully cycled. So have plenty ao 1.009 water made up of proper temp and pH so that you can change out water, as needed. I also feel that I
saved a couple fish in a poorly cycled QT once with the use of Amquel plus.
It is not made to use as a subsitutue for good/needed water quality/water changes. But, it can save you (and your fish) in a pinch.
 
Update: Unfortunately 4 of the 5 five have died. One is alive, and seems to be doing well, he hasn't seemed under too much stress through all of this and didn’t seem to have ich attached to him like the others, not sure why but I hope that he continues doing well, it is our Flame Hawk Fish.
I have listed my QT actions, what do you all think? Mistakes? I definately want to hear all thoughts, I know there is room for improvement! Tempature stayed between 79-80F. Please note that my salinity was a bit higher than I thought, thank goodness for the refractomoter. Plus, I am working on the ammonia, I haven’t been able to get it to lower yet.
(1 CUP= 1 16oz plastic cups)
Ph Nitrate Nitrite Ammonia Salinity Water Change
QT-START8.45.000.00.01.025START
QT-1-1ST HYPO8.45.000.00.01.0258.5 CUPS
QT-1-2ND HYPO7.810.000.00.251.02321 CUPS
QT-1-3RD HYPO7.810.000.00.01.02126 CUPS
QT-1-4TH HYPO7.910.000.00.01.019531 CUPS
QT-1-5TH HYPO7.910.000.00.151.01830 CUPS
QT-2-6TH HYPO8.010.000.00.251.01430 CUPS
QT-2-7TH HYPO8.110.000.00.251.01330 CUPS
QT-3-8TH HYPO8.410.000.00.251.011530 CUPS
QT-2-9TH HYPO8.410.000.00.251.009
QT-Day 18.410.000.00.251.009
Also, after going through this process and trying (hopefully) to follow the procedures in the disease and hypo threads I have some specific questions to ensure that I have done it completely correctly for reference now and later in the QT. Any information would be great!
1-As noted, during the hypo 48 reduction salinity time the Ph easily falls. This happened to me as described in the thread and others, so I added a small amount of Ph increaser each water change, it eventually raised and stablized. Putting this increaser in each time seemed to be the only way to keep it from dropping too far, was that the best way for me to do it?
2-What happens if the water drops below 1.009 during the salinity reduction time? We managed to hit it pretty exactly but we were worried we might go too far down and cause something else to happen.
3-Within this thread in an earlier post (#23) Al Mac mentioned “Amquel plus.” What exactly is this and where could I find it?
4-Freshwater dips-I believe my tank was well into the 4th stage of the ich lifecycle before we could start the hypo. Is that too late to dip the fish in freshwater because I know that that is when they can develop infection? If I do a freshwater dip how long exactly should the dip be, keep them in the water for 30 seconds,1 minute, 5 minutes? What should the fish do after this, their reaction I guess is what I am looking for, can I see a visible difference in the ich on the fish or in the fish’s actions?
5-Garlic-Several of you suggested to feed the fish garlic prior to the 48 hours salinity drop in the hypo treatment. Do I continue to feed them garlic during the entire treatment in the QT also?
6-Some fish I have been told are more apt to get ich, for example: Flag-Tail Surgeonfish the "Dori" tang. Once a fish like that has gone through hypo are they still more apt to get ich? My children have always wanted one of these but I was hesitant because of the ich issue but now with the hypo procedure available...
7-Do you need to QT Corals because of ich or other diseases? If so, how long- three weeks? My concern with corals even though they can not "catch" ich can they bring it into your aquarium via water. I try to never add water to the aquarium from stores or orders but some is on the coral itself or if the coral is a non-air touch coral some water is transferred. Can this transfer disease?
Sorry for the lengthy post but I so want to do the right and best thing for my fish and I always have so many questions. I hope you all understand and that this thread may help others through these problems too!!
 

al mc

Active Member
my thoughts.
1. That is how I handle pH issues in the hypo situation also.
2. I would try to get it back as quickly as I could to 1.009. I have run it at times at 1.008 with no sign of ill effect on the fish
3. Amquel plus: product that binds ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. It is good to have on hand if you have a poorly cycled Qt. Many have argued that loses in a QT/hypo may be due to spikes in these nitrogen cycle products not because of the pathogen we are treating. The use of Amquel though in an emergency is great. Emergency in my situation was I had an ammonia spike and not enough aged water to use to do the water change I needed. It is not a substitute for water changes or proper filtration.
4. Beth has great write up on fresh water dips in the archives. You should not need to do one if you do hyposalinity.
5. Garlic. Effects are open to debate, but there is no reason you can't use it daily for fish in the QT and periodically in your DT.
6. Tangs have been referred to as 'Ich magnets' since so many of them get/have the Ich parasite. There is, in theory, some short term immunity given to a fish that has survived an 'Ich attack'. However, fish can get the Ich again. QT everything
7. Qt everything.
 
Just wanted to keep everyone updated. I have my one little fishy left, he is still doing fine. It has been one week, many to go...
To follow-up on my previous post...
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2544150
Tangs have been referred to as 'Ich magnets' since so many of them get/have the Ich parasite. There is, in theory, some short term immunity given to a fish that has survived an 'Ich attack'. However, fish can get the Ich again. QT everything.
I totally get that information...but what if you...
1. buy a tang and hypo it
2. put it in the DT well
3. nothing new with ick is introduced to the DT because everything has been
put in QT first and hypo if necessary
Can the tang get ick on its own or through other means (ie. temp) without the parasite being introduced or must it be introduced? I hope I asked that well enough...
Plus, any new thoughts from anyone please feel free to add!
 

al mc

Active Member
If your DT has remained fishless for 6 weeks and you QT/hypo all fish and QT all inverts (OK all this is a royal pain in the butt) then you should have an Ich free tank and their should be no way for any fish, including tangs, to get the disease again.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2551758
If your DT has remained fishless for 6 weeks and you QT/hypo all fish and QT all inverts (OK all this is a royal pain in the butt) then you should have an Ich free tank and their should be no way for any fish, including tangs, to get the disease again.
Correct
The common misconception is that tangs can get ich when stressed for whatever reason. Stress does allow ich to attach, but ich has to be present to attack. If you quarantine ALL purchases correctly then ich cannot enter the system.
 
When you QT inverts what are you looking for as far as disease?
Also, our tank is looking really scary without the fish living within. Our tangs really earned their food in there as far as a clean-up crew! So, here is the thought, it has been empty for 1 week-can we add some inverts (snails and crabs) to clean up since they are not effected by ich? I was thinking, maybe I am wrong, which is why I need to ask, if we add these inverts to the tank now it would be okay. We can leave the tank for 6 weeks empty from that point and the inverts could be cleaning the entire time...?
Is this crazy or not?
 

al mc

Active Member
It is thought that anything that has been 'wet'...rock, invert shells, etc. could carry in Ich, though unlikely. So, if you want to put a clean up crew in your DT...do so soon. If you keep it fishless for at least 3 weeks..better 4-6 weeks..from the addition of your clean up crew or any other new inverts it still should be Ich free when you add the fish back.......
In the future....I would suggest that you QT anything else that goes into the tank...
Sounds like you are doing well! Al
 
Okay-thanks for the information! We are thinking about the clean up crew, swf.com has alot of good ones available. We are definately going to keep it fishless for at least 6 weeks and if we add the inverts we will restart the clock once they go in for 6 weeks. We are also definately going to QT everything first and probably also hypo any tangs we buy in the future. People may think that the QT is extra work and cost, but it is so minimal compared to having to do it in a rush once ich has happened and watching your fish suffer and die.
You guys that have been responding to my questions have been so helpful!!!!
Saying thank you is an understatement, I love these forums!!!!
 
Hi again! I wanted to follow-up with this thread. I want to thank those of you that provided so much help to me, ich is a challenge...

I made it through hypo for the first time and I had one survivor, my flame hawkfish. He is now back in the DT and doing well, probably alittle lonely though.
I have the QT set up for good and will never chance putting things straight into the DT again. I have also set up a coral QT. I have purchased a new Kole Tang and 2 neon gobies for the tank. They started hypo yesterday. I have decided it will be better to do it to be safe.
Anyway, wanted to say thanks again because I couldn't of figured it all out and saved my fish without the help!!!
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by confusedfishy
http:///forum/post/2628996
Hi again! I wanted to follow-up with this thread. I want to thank those of you that provided so much help to me, ich is a challenge...

I made it through hypo for the first time and I had one survivor, my flame hawkfish. He is now back in the DT and doing well, probably alittle lonely though.
I have the QT set up for good and will never chance putting things straight into the DT again. I have also set up a coral QT. I have purchased a new Kole Tang and 2 neon gobies for the tank. They started hypo yesterday. I have decided it will be better to do it to be safe.
Anyway, wanted to say thanks again because I couldn't of figured it all out and saved my fish without the help!!!

I am glad that the hawk made it through and that you have made it through the tough times. We are very glad that you stuck with it. You learned a great deal from this. I hope that you will share your experiences with others
 
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