ich

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by stateraise
I have a 20 gal reef tank.I have 2 clowns 1 fire goby 1 wachman goby and a coral beauty.Fish are shoing signs of ich.Small white spots.It comes and goes.Cleaner shrimp takes pretty good care of the coral beauty.Dosent seem to be affecting the fish too much.They eat well and seem ok.I have alot of liverock and corals.Is their any way my fish will pull through this withought treatment.If not can i use KICK-ICH withought hurting anything?ichich
Kick Ich will do nothing . Ask yourself this question...how can it supposedly kill one invert ich while leaving all others unharmed..ARGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! It defies logic!!!!!! Another scam and BIG waste of money.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
Kick Ich will do nothing . Ask yourself this question...how can it supposedly kill one invert ich while leaving all others unharmed..ARGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! It defies logic!!!!!! Another scam and BIG waste of money.
I am having problems understanding this logic. There are similarities between then protista ICH and inverts but there are major differences also. The biggest difference is that the are in totally different kingdoms.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I am having problems understanding this logic. There are similarities between then protista ICH and inverts but there are major differences also. The biggest difference is that the are in totally different kingdoms.
Copper is the only scientifically proven additive that will kill unattached parasites Ich..and ALL other inverts. One would have to explain to me the SPECIFIC ingredient in these so-called miracle cures such as Kick Ich that can selectively kill one invert while leaving all others alone. Simply tell me the ingredient or post the documented science behind the product. The claims do not follow logic based on documented science.

I am always willing to learn.

 

[airforceb2]

Originally Posted by Mikeyjer
Garlic brings up their immune system to fight off ich, that's probably a better way to put it. :happyfish
That sounds a lot better. It is like saying that Vitamin C can cure the common cold. It merely supplies your body with the needed elements to build up your immune system and in turn you are less likely to catch a cold.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I am having problems understanding this logic. There are similarities between then protista ICH and inverts but there are major differences also. The biggest difference is that the are in totally different kingdoms.
From Bob Fenner...recognize the name?
Hippo Tang scratching, Kick Ich product SCAM,
Good Day
<Hello>
Well, my Hippo tang is scratching persistently and my yellow tang is
scratching now. I knew I should have waited about the Kick Ich -- that is one $31.00
lesson I learned.
<This product... how many more times do I have to state this?... is an outright SCAM... there are NO reef safe anti-Cryptocaryon cures... NONE... What leads people to believe there could be? What would select this protozoan and yet leave others be? Arggggh!>
I have a 20 gallon QT tank I am going to set up today.
Should I use 10 gallons of water from my tank and 10 gallons of fresh
saltwater or should all 20 gallons be fresh saltwater since I do not know what is
going on in my tank?
<I would use the current aquarium water... less stress, comes with beneficial microbes... the ich will be killed...>
My yellow tangs cloudy eye has healed, but he still has
the large brown spots on him and his lips seem to have a little brownish color
around them today. With what and how should I treat my fish once I get them
into the QT tank? All your help is greatly appreciated.
Sherry
<... Please read here:
and the linked files (in blue, above) where you lead yourself... QUICKLY... and act with knowledge. Bob Fenner>

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
From Bob Fenner...recognize the name?
Hippo Tang scratching, Kick Ich product SCAM,
Good Day
<Hello>
Well, my Hippo tang is scratching persistently and my yellow tang is
scratching now. I knew I should have waited about the Kick Ich -- that is one $31.00
lesson I learned.
<This product... how many more times do I have to state this?... is an outright SCAM... there are NO reef safe anti-Cryptocaryon cures... NONE... What leads people to believe there could be? What would select this protozoan and yet leave others be? Arggggh!>
I have a 20 gallon QT tank I am going to set up today.
Should I use 10 gallons of water from my tank and 10 gallons of fresh
saltwater or should all 20 gallons be fresh saltwater since I do not know what is
going on in my tank?
<I would use the current aquarium water... less stress, comes with beneficial microbes... the ich will be killed...>
My yellow tangs cloudy eye has healed, but he still has
the large brown spots on him and his lips seem to have a little brownish color
around them today. With what and how should I treat my fish once I get them
into the QT tank? All your help is greatly appreciated.
Sherry
<... Please read here:
and the linked files (in blue, above) where you lead yourself... QUICKLY... and act with knowledge. Bob Fenner>
I don't know who Bob Fenner is, sorry I guess I am ignorant in the aspect, is he a marine biologist or something?

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I don't know who Bob Fenner is, sorry I guess I am ignorant in the aspect, is he a marine biologist or something?
He is the author of the book Conscientious Marine Aquarist and is a recognized name in the hobby. A must read for any marine hobbyist . he is a recognized "authority" in the hobby. Do a search on his name and/or the book title.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
He is the author of the book Conscientious Marine Aquarist and is a recognized name in the hobby. A must read for any marine hobbyist . he is a recognized "authority" in the hobby. Do a search on his name and/or the book title.
I did do a search for his name, but all I found as an obituarary for some guy named Robert Fenner and a saltwater fish site that said it did not include any information from Bob Fenner. I have never read the Conscientious Marine Aquarist and I mean no disrepect to the book or the author.
The protista that causes ich is very different then lets say shrimp, corals, nutrifying bacteria, etc. Therefore I find it hard to understand how there is no way to focus on destroying ich while sparing the majority of other organisms.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I did do a search for his name, but all I found as an obituarary for some guy named Robert Fenner and a saltwater fish site that said it did not include any information from Bob Fenner. I have never read the Conscientious Marine Aquarist and I mean no disrepect to the book or the author.
The protista that causes ich is very different then lets say shrimp, corals, nutrifying bacteria, etc. Therefore I find it hard to understand how there is no way to focus on destroying ich while sparing the majority of other organisms.
He has his own website that can easily be found. Currently there is NO documeted science that an additive exists that willl only kill parasites and not kill inverts......none=zero=nada=does not currently exist
If you THINK Kick Ich will work the company and many lfs's will gladly take your money..at 30-$32 plus shipping and/or tax a pop............... thay should be ashamed.
The secert these products have must be well kept....like Bush's Baked beans...only the dog knows.

 

[popnfrresh]

I have a diced garlic in my fridge upstairs. It is pure garlic with water added and phosphoric acid. Can i use this to give to the fish ro does it have to be [pure garlic?

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
He has his own website that can easily be found. Currently there is NO documeted science that an additive exists that willl only kill parasites and not kill inverts......none=zero=nada=does not currently exist
If you THINK Kick Ich will work the company and many lfs's will gladly take your money..at 30-$32 plus shipping and/or tax a pop............... thay should be ashamed.
The secert these products have must be well kept....like Bush's Baked beans...only the dog knows.

AGGGG, it is as if nothing I am trying to say is heard. but I will try once more to clarify.
1. I don't know Bob Fenner so I have no comment on the guy, in the few minutes of time I spent looking for information on him I found nothing, frankly knowing about him doesn't matter to me.
2. I have never used kick-ich nor do I know what it contain.
3. I did not say that there is any miracle cure for ich.
4. I do however believe it is foolish to say that it is impossible to target ich while sparing the majority of other completely different organisms.
I really have no desire to continue this discussion, so this is it for me on this thread.

 

[beth]

https://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...33a4f7740b2958
Robert Fernner is certainly at the top in this hobby and is actually one of my favorite resources. Nice guy to talk to as well. He is the author of several hobby books, the one linked here is his most known book, and is, IMO, the Bible that all new hobbyists should keep with them at all times.
If anyone wants to use a "reef safe" medication then no one here can stop you, but it is a waste of time, it does not cure ich, and the risks to aquaria is basically up to those who go down that path. I have personally seen purple mushrooms turn translucent and loose all color after the use of kick ich. So, at your own risk...and, it doesn't work anyway.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by hot883
GARLIC CANNOT, WILL NOT, cure/kill ICH.. It strengthens the immune system, does not kill ich.
Hot883, read my above posting!!! "Well, as far as I'm concerned, it cured my fish from ich. Numerous other people in this site would tell you the samething. Garlic brings up their immune system to fight off ich, that's probably a better way to put it."

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Mikeyjer
Hot883, read my above posting!!! "Well, as far as I'm concerned, it cured my fish from ich. Numerous other people in this site would tell you the samething. Garlic brings up their immune system to fight off ich, that's probably a better way to put it."

there is simply not enough studies to support the claims. yet many hobbyist will post their success using garlic. I beleive it is more of a preventive measure as opposed to an outright cure...but really...who knows? The jury is still out but I beleive based on my experience and the experience of others it does help as part of a total preventive "program" against the disease and possible outbreak.
You also need to study how a marine animal will process the gralic through the stomach and liver.....ie how much if any actually makes it to the blood stream?
Certainly well over and above my understanding.....but certainly worth studying by those that possess the cognitive skill and expertise to do so.
The article I posted above certainly presents a case for the effectiveness...but the author also believes additonal study is needed.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
there is simply not enough studies to support the claims. yet many hobbyist will post their success using garlic. I beleive it is more of a preventive measure as opposed to an outright cure...but really...who knows? The jury is still out but I beleive based on my experience and the experience of others it does help as part of a total preventive "program" against the disease and possible outbreak.
You also need to study how a marine animal will process the gralic through the stomach and liver.....ie how much if any actually makes it to the blood stream?
Certainly well over and above my understanding.....but certainly worth studying by those that possess the cognitive skill and expertise to do so.
The article I posted above certainly presents a case for the effectiveness...but the author also believes additonal study is needed.
I would agree to what your saying. :happyfish

 

[danedodger]

I agree with Mr. Fenner also in what's been posted here. If you poll the number of people who've used garlic they generally say it seemed to work for them but no one can yet factually state "garlic cures ich" so more study is needed. HOWEVER it does it it does SEEM to be effective to some extent.
But now let's put it this way, has anyone heard of any HARM being done by using garlic? I haven't so my personal opinion at this point until I hear something that convinces me otherwise is if it's POSSIBLE that it at least helps in some capacity and doesn't do any harm why not use it?
Oh and I forgot to add, freshwater dips seem effective too but I haven't much experience with them. I can definitely see problems with doing it like chasing the fish around trying to catch it and stressing them to the max. I have used saltwater dips on many freshwater fish with great results though at my store. A light case of ich cleared up with one dip within about 24 hours although there were some losses. So what's the opinions and thoughts on dips?

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by DaneDodger
I agree with Mr. Fenner also in what's been posted here. If you poll the number of people who've used garlic they generally say it seemed to work for them but no one can yet factually state "garlic cures ich" so more study is needed. HOWEVER it does it it does SEEM to be effective to some extent.
But now let's put it this way, has anyone heard of any HARM being done by using garlic? I haven't so my personal opinion at this point until I hear something that convinces me otherwise is if it's POSSIBLE that it at least helps in some capacity and doesn't do any harm why not use it?
Oh and I forgot to add, freshwater dips seem effective too but I haven't much experience with them. I can definitely see problems with doing it like chasing the fish around trying to catch it and stressing them to the max. I have used saltwater dips on many freshwater fish with great results though at my store. A light case of ich cleared up with one dip within about 24 hours although there were some losses. So what's the opinions and thoughts on dips?
I've done fresh water dip before and it works for me. I had some parasite problem and I did the dip to get rid of them, took two dip on one fish to clear it up. The other one just one dip and it got rid of it. :happyfish