Ich!!!!

[scubadoo]

You can place your fish in a separate tank and treat with hyposalinity. This is a proven effective treatment against ich. You let the main display run fallow (no host fish) for 6 weeks. This will break the ich cycle. You can then return the fish back to the system. In the future, you can use your spare tank as a QT....placing new arrivals there and monitoring for disease. This will reduce the risk of introducing disease to the main system.
Hypo is deadly to inverts...so it must be done outside the display...or the inverts and lr should be removed from the display. Treating in an QT tank of adequate size is a better chioice.

 

[aquapro_1]

If the qt isn't set up, you're asking for more problems.

 

[crox]

A guy at the lfs told me that I can also raise the salinity to 1.04 to 1.05. Is that true?
:help:

 

[aquapro_1]

Your fish will feel like exploding!!!!!!!!!!

That is way too much pressure for them. They will suffocate!!
PLease STOP LISTENING TO LOCAL SHOPS IDIOTS!!!

Just because they make a paycheck does not mean they actually take care of the fish or have any knowlegde of them!!
Talking to them defeats the purpose to talking to us.
HINT: We actually HAVE and TAKE CARE OF.....
Sorry for yelling, but if they cared about the fish,you wouldn't be battling ich, now.
I am assuming you bought it from them...
YEAH, YEAH, I know what happens when I ASS U ME!!

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Cleaner shrimp...Is it a scarlet cleaner?? Many people CLAIM that a shrimp is a cleaner. Scarlets were born to clean. The first one I bought, went fish to fish cleaning. When I bought a couple more they claimed a corner & set up a cleaning station. The first did a great job of advertisement. His buddies sealed the deal.
Ich life cycle is a 7 day life cycle. But depends on the water params & how many of these tiny things you brought into the tank. Lower the tank temp to 75. The fish will tolerate it. Give it a week and a half & change the water weekly. 25%. The parasite thrive on 78 & warmer. They hate cold. Also lower you salinity. 1.019. The lower the pressure the better to rid your tank. The fish will be fine. Keep the lights off while you make the changes & then do about your daily bus.

Just soooo much faulty information...
First, you cannot substitute a QT tank with a couple of shrimp... cleaner shrimp WILL NOT prevent disease. They can HELP, but they will NOT prevent a disease breakout. Furthermore, once ICH has infected a tank cleaners will not be able to keep up.
Second, marine ICH has a life sycle of more than 7 days. The life cycle includes the time the ICH are cysts. Experts agree that a tank should remain "fallow" for at least 30 days.
Third, quickly dropping your salinity can kill a stressed fish.
Fourth, dropping salinity can kill your inverts.
Fifth, you should RAISE temperature. "Temperature effects. As with freshwater ich, it's advised to raise your systems temperature to speed up the life cycle of Crypt while you're treating for it. If your livestock can handle it, increase your heating to the mid 80's F along with whatever other treatment regimen you employ." (Taken verbatim from Dr. Fenner's webpage)

 

[crox]

The lfs guy told me that the salinity in the ocean water is approx 1.040 to 1.050.

 

[aquapro_1]

C. irritans is an obligate parasite (Burgess and Matthews, 1994; Dickerson and Dawe, 1995; Yoshinaga and Dickerson, 1994).
Obligate means the parasite can not survive without infecting its host, in this case, fish. Theronts have been shown to die if a suitable host is not found within the required time. Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) found that few theronts (0.34%) were viable 12.5 hours after excystment and Burgess and Matthews (1994) found that no theronts were viable 18 hours after excystment. Colorni (1985) found that some excysted tomites (=theronts) were observed to be moving weekly after 48 hours. While the life span of the theronts appears variable, it is limited and all will die without finding a suitable host.
Everything is a varible. Depends on how many fish are contaminated.
I have introduced numerous fish into the tank & Never used my qt. I have had an empty 55g over 3yrs!! Since the scarlet shrimp was effective for my tank..I have no other opinion than, this is the best & effective method. My fish are happy & healthy & clean! Never said the shrimp can cure any diseases. But they feed on ich & ich feeds on unhealthy fish. Scarlets promote healthy fish....Removes dead skin. Healthy fish have a natural protective slim/coat that prevents ich from attatching. Thus...Scarlets help improve those odds.
I have not had ich in 1mo shy of 3 yrs!

 

[1journeyman]

Aquapro_1 you didn't address the issues I brought up...
You said the "ich life cycle is a 7 day life cycle". That is incorrect. The life cycle includes, but is not limited to, the free swimming stage. It does NOT depend on how many fish are infected (as you stated). The cysts are found on the bottom of the tank...
I'm glad that you have not had ICH in your tank for 3 years. That doesn't excuse, however, practicing poor animal husbandry by not using a QT tank. As I stated previously, cleaner shrimps can HELP with an aquarium's health, but they cannot be looked at to be a cure all/prevent all; Only proper QT methods can do that. To promote cleaner shrimp instead of proper, practiced, PROVEN methods of animal husbandry is irresponsible. I have my aquarium set up in my office. I have never had ICH. Should I post and tell people to put their sick fish in their offices to prevent ICH? Of course not...
I respect your opinions and your willingness to help other posters UNTIL THE POINT WHERE YOU GIVE FAULTY INFORMATION. Your profile says you are an "advanced" aquarist. People could easily look at the information you post and assume that you are correct. In this case you gave some very bad advice (I believe my previous post showed FIVE different statements that you made that were incorrect in the treatment of ICH).
You've done this on several other threads too; given advice that was blatantly wrong. We are all in this hobby to learn. I would kindly ask that you make sure to better research your facts from now on. There are already too many myths abounding about our hobby. As Responsible aquarists it is our job to correct them, not propogate them.

 

[aquapro_1]

You are dodge the fact the parasites can die off earlier than 30 days. Clearly proven by& tested that in 48 hrs they were very week & barely moving. I have not heard acknowledgment of it either???
Also, none of my animal are abused. They are happy & healthy. The scarlets are fed. Scarlet have provided a clean atmosphere for my tankmates. If you ARE right, I'd have an ich issue..AGAIN, not for shy of 3 months. I doubt it is a miracle. It is more common, than you would like to believe.

 

[1journeyman]

I'm not dodging anything... read what you posted... nowhere does it talk about the FULL life cycle of ICH. The life cycle of ICH is fully documented.
I never accused you of abusing your animals. I do, however, stand by my statement that responsible aquatic husbandry utilizes a QT tank.
I don't want to argue back and forth with you. My point is that you have made several posts with false information in them. This one is a perfect example of that. Opinions are great, and often lead to exciting discoveries. That said, however, we all have to be careful of how we state our opinions. You have a tendancy to state everything as fact. That is not fair to the readers that don't know better. The methods you listed for treating ICH are totally, factually wrong.

 

[aquapro_1]

Ich is alive and kicking up to 7 days. After it is dead. Then the eggs hatch. Can't do anything to the eggs. Everyone says they can't be touched. After they hatch they have to find a host. They only have up to a max of 48hrs. Again, only alive to 7 days. Then it's egg hatchery. They don't "LIVE UP TO 30 DAYS!!!!!!!"
Getting the true picture, yet????
Eggs don't count. Can't touch then. Thus scarlets are prefect. I just visited another category. OTTO13 is trying the cleaner shrimp in his qt tank. 2 outbreaks & ZERO deaths AND NO CHEMICALS!!!
ODD?? NOT EVEN CLOSE!!I KNOW IT WORKS!!! And someone was smart enough to try!!
ONLY ENDED WITH SUCCESS!!!!!! :cheer:

 

[1journeyman]

The post you are referring to refers to using a UV sterilizer...
I never referred to eggs... I referred to the "life cycle". I'm sorry if you are confused on that point but cysts are part of the life cycle.

 

[aquapro_1]

I don't count what I can't get or treat. Being in an egg and untouchable...It's technically not even born, so it doesn't exist. Once hatched & alive, then I take it into consideration the "life" and how to get rid of it. The uv's don't do much, if anything...in his own words, too.

 

[aquapro_1]

Hey, know it's off the subject But planning on going to see the races? Tx Motor? I live right behind it!!! I can't stand being a prisoner of my own home!!! Yeah, knew it could be bad when I built, but now the idiot has 2 major races!!

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by aquapro_1
I don't count what I can't get or treat. Being in an egg and untouchable...It's technically not even born, so it doesn't exist. Once hatched & alive, then I take it into consideration the "life" and how to get rid of it. The uv's don't do much, if anything...in his own words, too.
Fair enough, but you can hardly hold the rest of us to that standard. Like I said, cysts are considered part of the "life cycle".
Now that we have agreed to the question of the "life" of ICH how about we address the other points in your posts:
Hypo
Temp
No QT
Etc...
I'm not trying to attack you personally, but you still haven't retracted any of the other points you made.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Hey, know it's off the subject But planning on going to see the races? Tx Motor? I live right behind it!!! I can't stand being a prisoner of my own home!!! Yeah, knew it could be bad when I built, but now the idiot has 2 major races!!
Where do you live? I live in Argyle, work in Roanoke and Justin... I hate the stupid thing... I know some families that lost their property due to "imminent Domain". It's a scourge.. and you are right... we are all like prisoners during "Race weekends".

 

[aquapro_1]

Well me, never needed my qt. Lower the temp does slow them down to keep the fish less stress & being attacked. Yes, raise the temp & the bounce off the walls & they rip into your fish. Figured if they are too cold & move slower, the chances for the fish to have less is greater. I know I move slow in the cold. Almost obsolite. Makes life miserable & more chances of ich death to occur. Most fish books state the lowest is 1.020. A point would not harm them. Keep the lights off and they will keep calm. A little light headed.

but livable. Lowering all of the above does prove fatal to the parasites. Heat promotes grown & raised salinity jeapardises the fish. Also grows more issues & parasites. 1 thing I did learn in chemistry & biology. Heat promotes the worst to happen. Cold slows it down & limits bad bacteria & other growths. So I apply that is my daily functions.
When I first started I set up a qt. As life tells you, living by the book doesn't not prepare you for the outside world.
My husband & I debate it quite a bit. Book smart vs street smart. I have come out on top 99% of the time. I took lots of classes & got min. grades & he the opposite. I have never been wrong about a person. I can watch for 5 min or just hear about the person & predict how they will handle situations & so forth...I am at 100% percent. Been with my hubby since 1999. He laughed & doubted me. Now he asks me what I think & swears to everyone about my unique "powers"

My situations provided my success. ONLY in the ICH department. I only swear by true scarlets that they DO work. I have , heh, 3 yrs experience & to me that is the basis for my strong urge for others to at least try. See for them selves. Such if you got a fish that has fin rot, place him in the qt & get him back to par. Cloudy eye, get him the nutrition & water params he needs. What ever ailes them. But I want to at least tell people, why stress the fish out more with chem's?
That's my story & I'm sticking to it!!

 

[aquapro_1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Where do you live? I live in Argyle, work in Roanoke and Justin... I hate the stupid thing... I know some families that lost their property due to "imminent Domain". It's a scourge.. and you are right... we are all like prisoners during "Race weekends".
By the schools. My mail is Justin, but LEGALLY I am fort worth. Off Hwy 156 & hwy 114. No movies, no pizza, no mail...

one weekend of no bills!! Maybe 1 good thing!

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Well me, never needed my qt.
That is dangerous. Many diseases and parasites can be introduced; including internal ones. Without a QT tank you run the risk of introducing many diseases, fungi, etc. Also, once in a reef tank, a fish could very well be impossible to remove.
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Lower the temp does slow them down to keep the fish less stress & being attacked. Yes, raise the temp & the bounce off the walls & they rip into your fish. Figured if they are too cold & move slower, the chances for the fish to have less is greater.
Water temp does effect fish metabolism, however, taken from Dr. Fenner's webpage regarding ICH (can't post the link due to forum policy): "Temperature effects. As with freshwater ich, it's advised to raise your systems temperature to speed up the life cycle of Crypt while you're treating for it. If your livestock can handle it, increase your heating to the mid 80's F along with whatever other treatment regimen you employ. "
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Most fish books state the lowest is 1.020. A point would not harm them.
Any sudden changes in salinity is harmful; and 1.020 is too low to keep inverts...
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Keep the lights off and they will keep calm.
True, but then you have to monitor pH and make sure your fish are getting enough O2. Algae produces CO2 during non-photosynthetic preiods and prolonged "dark" can really drop your pH (surface agitation is a must).
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Lowering all of the above does prove fatal to the parasites. Heat promotes grown & raised salinity jeapardises the fish. Also grows more issues & parasites. 1 thing I did learn in chemistry & biology. Heat promotes the worst to happen. Cold slows it down & limits bad bacteria & other growths. So I apply that is my daily functions.
Unfortunately in this case it is incorrect. By slowing down the disease you are keeping it in the cyst form longer, which we both agree makes it more difficult to treat.
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Originally Posted by aquapro_1
When I first started I set up a qt. As life tells you, living by the book doesn't not prepare you for the outside world.
I'm a big fan of "the book" until proven otherwise through logic and the scientific method. I'm glad that your tank has been successful, but that is hardly enough evidence to start re-writing anything just yet.
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
My situations provided my success. ONLY in the ICH department. I only swear by true scarlets that they DO work. I have , heh, 3 yrs experience & to me that is the basis for my strong urge for others to at least try. See for them selves. Such if you got a fish that has fin rot, place him in the qt & get him back to par. Cloudy eye, get him the nutrition & water params he needs. What ever ailes them. But I want to at least tell people, why stress the fish out more with chem's?
I'm against medication until needed as well. As said, however, once a tank has ICH an army of Cleaner shrimps aren't going to cure it (I don't believe... if they could then every wholesaler in the world would bump up their salinities and keep cleaners in every tank).
Hope that explains our differences :thinking: