Ick hit fast.

[sweatervest13]

I have had my tank up and running for a year now (29g). Around Oct 2010 I had two ocellaris clowns (both orange). Well the one bigger one started getting white spots. I researched and found it to be marine Ick. The clown did not make it, by the time I seen the spots they were all over and he did not make it 12 hours. I put the other clown in a QT and treated with copper (I think it was cupramine but don't know for sure, I have the package at home still). Waited 5 weeks (he had just a few very small white spots) and everything looked good. Back in the DT he went. While in QT I got another clown (black and white) and he did the QT process along with the other.
I added a Coral Beauty in Nov/Dec (no QT) and some various corals but no other fish.
Fast forward to this week. Everything in the tank looks good. I am setting up a new 125g and wanted to put some more base rock in the 29g to get it "live" to use to cycle the big tank. So, I moved around some rockwork and repositioned some corals in the 29g. This was last Thursday. I did a big water change (25%-30% ) because there was a bit of sand stired up in moving some rocks. Through the weekend everything looked good. All the corals were opening up and the fish were eating. Then on Tuesday when I got home from work I went to feed the fish and do the usual head count to see if everybody is there and the black and white clown was not there right away. I saw him hiding under the rock where he hosts and was breathing hard. I feed the tank and when he came up to eat was covered in ICK. It looked like he was rolling around in the sand for hours. I saw him the night before at like midnight and he was fine. This was at 5pm so not even 18 hours later and he was covered. I did not have a hospital tank set up, so I started one. By the next AM he was gone.
Two questions. Can/should Ick kill a fish that quick? Once ick is in the tank I will have to go fallow for 6-8 weeks and QT my other fish?
If I just QT the other fish that does nothing it seems because the parisite can still live. I need to do copper or hypo on fish that seem okay?

 

[beth]

You will need to leave the display without fish for 3 weeks min. And, in the meantime, you will need to treat the fish. Hypo is the best option, if you have a refractometer.
Yes, ich can kill quickly.

 

[lion_crazz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///forum/thread/386546/ick-hit-fast#post_3395978Two questions. Can/should Ick kill a fish that quick? Once ick is in the tank I will have to go fallow for 6-8 weeks and QT my other fish?
If I just QT the other fish that does nothing it seems because the parisite can still live. I need to do copper or hypo on fish that seem okay?
Yes, ich can definitely kill quickly. Once it is in the aquarium, all fish need to be quarantined and the display needs to be fallow for 6-8 weeks.
In order for you to kill the parasite, you must treat all fish with either hyposalinity or copper in a QT, as well as leaving the display free of any fish.

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///forum/thread/386546/ick-hit-fast#post_3395978
Two questions. Can/should Ick kill a fish that quick? Once ick is in the tank I will have to go fallow for 6-8 weeks and QT my other fish?
If I just QT the other fish that does nothing it seems because the parisite can still live. I need to do copper or hypo on fish that seem okay?
As to your questions, yes - ich can kill very fast. Ich can start with 1 and multiply to over 200 when that one multiplies. (the first life-cycle) On the second cycle if only 30% from the first feed & multiply - the number can grow to 12,000 - all in about 7-10 days. Assuming only 30% of the 2nd cycle feed sucessfully and cyst/multiply - the next hatch (3rd life cycle) could yeild over 700,000.
And yes - the only way to be sure the DT is ich free is a 6-8 week fallow time.
+1 on having a refractometer setting hypo sg. Usually a hypo at 1.009 MAX will kill off the parasite over a couple weeks, but if the parasite comes back during later weeks of hypo, then I have combined treatments and begun copper. Again a copper test kit is very imporntant too. The seachem test kits work best with cupramine (a seachem product) and I like the API kit for coppersafe use.,

 

[sweatervest13]

I put the two fish (CB and ocellaris clown) in QT on Saturday. The move did not go as smooth as I wanted, so I gave them a couple of days just to get used to the new QT tank. I know hypo is usually the preferred but with these fish not showing any sign of Ick how should I QT them? How will I know if it is successful?? For Hypo I have read to bring it down over a week. So I was thinking of just taking out a large cup (1 L) of tank water and replacing it with RO water then see what then new readings are. Does that sound good? I did check and the copper I have is Cupramine. Thanks for the help.

 

[beth]

You can bring the salinity down over 48 hours, but take 5 days to bring the salinity back up once the treatment is finished. You just go through the course of treatment. You don't necessarily need to see the ich. It is better to remove all the water you plan to remove during 1 day, and then slowly add that water back during the day.

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///forum/thread/386546/ick-hit-fast#post_3396826
You can bring the salinity down over 48 hours, but take 5 days to bring the salinity back up once the treatment is finished. You just go through the course of treatment. You don't necessarily need to see the ich. It is better to remove all the water you plan to remove during 1 day, and then slowly add that water back during the day.
Thanks Beth!!
I slowly brought down the salinity. The tank is at 1.009-1.010. It is just a 10g QT and I am having a bit of a hard time keeping it at 1.009. I top off twice a day now and I will see if that helps. The fish look fine (again, they have never shown signs of ICK but it was in the DT so I know it's there) and they are eating well. I got the salinity down to the 1.009 on 07/17/11. How many weeks from this point do the fish stay in QT? 5 weeks?
I have been testing the water and the reading are all zero, well PH is 8.0-8.2. I am thinking about doing a 30%-50% WC this weekend. I have an RO/DI unit and at 1.009 you really don't use that much salt mix so no biggie.
How does this sound?

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
on having a refractometer setting hypo sg. Usually a hypo at 1.009 MAX will kill off the parasite over a couple weeks, but if the parasite comes back during later weeks of hypo, then I have combined treatments and begun copper. Again a copper test kit is very imporntant too. The seachem test kits work best with cupramine (a seachem product) and I like the API kit for coppersafe use.,
Hey Tangs Rule,
When you say hypo at 1.009 MAX. Is it better to go down to 1.008 and then with evaporation go up to 1.009? Right now I am 1.009 then with evaporation before I do a top off it goes to 1.010. How low can I go and not hurt the fish?
Also, I think it was on a different thread but you mentioned a complete 100% WC and scrub the tank and all the equipment and coffee cups with HOT water. How often should I do that while in QT? Also should I be doing WC's every few days, once a week, bi weekly on the QT? How much 30%?
Thanks for the help. My fish appreciate it. LOL

 

[tangs rule]

I do like going down to 1.008, and evaporation is not too much of a factor, as I am usually doing a little waterchange every other day. Also - it really helps to have your water premixed - with a tiny bit of buffer in it to get pH to 8.0. When I come down with salinity, I use plain ro/di water & buffer, and do ~5% waterchange 2x per day. During hypo i try to keep 10-30 gallons of premixed 1.008 water, buffered to 8.0 for w/c use, and on comming back up, I mix 5 gal strong SW with no buffer ~1.030 and again do small waterchanges 2x per day - NOT increasing the qtine tank sg by more than .003 at a time (.002 better). Premixing really helps save time during such regular w/c's, AND reduces the chance for error, as who wants to mix water daily or more often?

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/386546/ick-hit-fast#post_3398863
I do like going down to 1.008, and evaporation is not too much of a factor, as I am usually doing a little waterchange every other day. Also - it really helps to have your water premixed - with a tiny bit of buffer in it to get pH to 8.0. When I come down with salinity, I use plain ro/di water & buffer, and do ~5% waterchange 2x per day. During hypo i try to keep 10-30 gallons of premixed 1.008 water, buffered to 8.0 for w/c use, and on comming back up, I mix 5 gal strong SW with no buffer ~1.030 and again do small waterchanges 2x per day - NOT increasing the qtine tank sg by more than .003 at a time (.002 better). Premixing really helps save time during such regular w/c's, AND reduces the chance for error, as who wants to mix water daily or more often?
Okay I will go to 1.008 and hold it there. I just made up a fresh batch of RO/DI water so I will mix up some WC water to 1.008 and keep it on hand. Do you mean while in hypo you do 2x per day WC's or just while you are dropping the salinity? If just while coming down, would you recommend doing a 5% WC every other day? And every two weeks do the 100% deal?
I have another weird question. I made up a huge batch of RO/DI water and kept it in my brand new Brute trash can (32g). I had a pump and some tubing so I could pump it out to my little 5g jugs. Well I opened the lid and it smelled like Sh!#, no really it smelled like someone took a dump in the bucket. I poured out all the water. I thought I would be able to store fresh RO/DI water for extended periods of time. The only thing I could think of is that the pump and tubing had something on it. So next time I will not keep them in the brute can while storing water. What else could it be? Can I store water for more then a day or two? Was the smell bad or was the water okay to use?
Thanks for all the help!!

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///forum/thread/386546/ick-hit-fast#post_3398879
Okay I will go to 1.008 and hold it there. I just made up a fresh batch of RO/DI water so I will mix up some WC water to 1.008 and keep it on hand. Do you mean while in hypo you do 2x per day WC's or just while you are dropping the salinity? If just while coming down, would you recommend doing a 5% WC every other day? And every two weeks do the 100% deal?
I have another weird question. I made up a huge batch of RO/DI water and kept it in my brand new Brute trash can (32g). I had a pump and some tubing so I could pump it out to my little 5g jugs. Well I opened the lid and it smelled like Sh!#, no really it smelled like someone took a dump in the bucket. I poured out all the water. I thought I would be able to store fresh RO/DI water for extended periods of time. The only thing I could think of is that the pump and tubing had something on it. So next time I will not keep them in the brute can while storing water. What else could it be? Can I store water for more then a day or two? Was the smell bad or was the water okay to use?
Thanks for all the help!!
I only do the 2x per day thing comming up or down. While in hypo, I usually do a 10-15% every other day. but that depends on how heavily stocked the qtine tank is. And every 10days - 2weeks max do the big 100% deal and stearlize everything.
As for stoirng the water - I store it for days/weeks in the same brute trachcans, both the 33 & 44 gal size. Onlytime I ever had a batch "stink" was when a lizard crawl into one and died. (I store mine outside in the carport) Actually there's 70 gallons made up out there now that's been sitting for 10 days, and it;s fine.....you likely had some thing start yours off to the stinky - i'd throw out all the putrid water, stearlize the t/c with a couple tablespoons bleach, rinse the heck out of it, and try again. I've used them for storing water for 10 years and the only time I evey had one stink was that once when the lizzard died in one.