Ick in my 125g semi reef

[flamehawk]

Never thought I would have to deal with Ick again.
Added my Heniochus from another tank and the 125 semi reef came down w/ Ich. Heni had no signs of it before. Have had him for 4 1/2 years....strange.
In any event I've had to set up 3 tanks to remove all my fish. My adult sohal and adult emperor are going into 30g long, YT and Hippo into 29g and so on. After gradually lowering salinity to 1.008, should I also add seaclone copper? Aslo how long do you recommend leaving the 125g semi reef "fishless"? Boy what a chore!! Is it better to keep the fish in the display and remove the L/R? Don't think so because the low salinity would have killed the L/S. Right??
Also removed my UV about 6 months ago....now I wish I hadn't.
WIll wait until I here from you guys before removing the fish from the 125g so if you can please respond quickly. Thanks.

 

[beth]

Originally posted by flamehawk
After gradually lowering salinity to 1.008, should I also add seaclone copper?
The target is 1.009. Don't go lower than that. No copper. The advantage of hypo is that you will not have to use a harsh medication such as copper. Hypo will do the job.
Also how long do you recommend leaving the 125g semi reef "fishless"?
If you follow the full course of hypo, then your tank will be clear when the fish are ready to return to the display [1 mo.]
Boy what a chore!! Is it better to keep the fish in the display and remove the L/R? Don't think so because the low salinity would have killed the L/S. Right??
Hypo will effect the quality of LR and the animals that live in LR. However, as an alternative, since you have so many fish, you could place the LR in the temporary tanks and kept the fish in their diplay for the hypo process. This would effectively treat your display tank as well. But, what you're planning is fine. You make the choice as long as we are only talking about LR and not inverts, corals, snails, etc., etc. Keep in mind that fish will need comfort zones [fake rock, pvc, etc] whichever way you decide to go.
What are you using to measure salinity?
Good Luck!

 

[flamehawk]

I have refractor to measure salintiy.
Since leaving the fish in display 125g is preferred and I believe less stressful on the fish, the only issue is the live sand(L/S) in the tank.
If I remove the L/R , snails, crabs into the Q tanks, will the live sand and it's critters die off if I do hypo in the display tank?
Thanks Beth.

 

[beth]

Good question about the live sand. The nitrifying bacteria will be fine...but critter in the sand.....those may take a hit.

 

[flamehawk]

I've decided to take the chance with the critters because my main objective is to save the fish and I think this is less stressful and less risky.
Unfortunately there is no easy way out of this.
I'm also putting my UV back on.

 

[flamehawk]

Terry....see your on...any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[beth]

I think thats the right choice. You may loose bristle worms or any other critters that burrows, but in a bad situation, sometimes you have to make tough decisions. If you have any sand burrowing snails, try to get them out of the sand if you can.

 

[flamehawk]

Thanks Beth.
I just noticed that YT has some fine black spots on him as well. I'm not sure if Hypo takes care of that also? Tank is currently at 1.014 on the way to 1.009 tonight. All L/R and observable critters are out and in the holding tanks w/power heads, lighting and heat of course.
I hope I don't have to medicate the display now that I've taken all out and the fish are in there. Hope it ends up being the right choice afterall. I have re-installed the UV if that makes a difference although I don't think so.
A sincere Thanks for your help.

 

[flamehawk]

bump

 

[flamehawk]

Unfortunately I already moved all L/R into Q tanks and have hypo'd the display. I hope it doesn't kill everything including the fish. I'll watch my amonia spikes but it really stinnks that my L/S is going to become dead sand.
What shall I do about the YT w/ black ick? WIll the UV help speed the process so I can try to save as much of the L/S as possible?

 

[beth]

Sounds like black ich. Does it look like salt sprinkled on the fish...only black dots instead of white? If so, take a look at the FAQ Thread and read the post on formalin bathes. This is not performed in the tank. You will treat the fish 1x a day in a deadicated container for 3-5 days. Follow the instructions to the letter. Formalin can be harmful to fish if it is not handled correctly.

 

[flamehawk]

Since I put my UV on and lowered the salinity things have been going fine w/ no signs of ICK. I'm concerned about the stress to my fish and the impact of the low salinity to the live sand. Since I have a UV, can't I gradually increase the salinity and return the live rock? I understand about the 3 week life cycle but won" t the UV ensure that they stay under control?
I have a certain personal situation which seriously requires I free up space by getting the 2 holding tanks with the rock out of the room.
Yout thoughts are appreciated.

 

[beth]

In this situation it is not likely that the UV is accomplishing anything. UV's might work at PREVENTION but not cure. What has happened it that the ich has simply cycled into one of its other stages. Only 1 stage of ich is it visible to you [while it is on the fish]. The other 2 stages you don't see it at all.
Leave it as it is. Continue hyposalinity. You already made the decision and it just isn't good to flip flob around. I don't know about worms dying in your sand, but the actual nitrifying bacteria should do fine. What kind of LS did you buy?
As for the YT. He need formalin bathes. Take a look at this topic in the FAQ Thread.

 

[flamehawk]

Black Ick on YT has been gone for a week. Hypo seems to be having a positive impact on this illness as well. Do I still need formalin bath?

 

[beth]

How soon will you be moving your fish back to the display?

 

[flamehawk]

Beth, as a reminder I left the fish in the display and took out all the rock inot the Q tanks. You suggested this approach because I had too many fish to move out of the display. Terry had a different view but it was too late since I had already taken the salinity down and had placed all the rock and visable critters into Q tanks. One of the reasons I am concerned about the low salinity in the display is due to the live sand which of course I did not move. Black Ich looks like it's gone from the YT.
I was hoping to move the rock back into the display and raise the salinity before the 3 weeks suggested because something has come up which requires the space which is currently being taken by the 2 Q holding tanks which have the LR.
The slainity level in the display tank has been down to 1.009 since 1-15. No signs of Ick.
Also I thought the UV actually did help keep free swimming parasites in check in between stages when they are in search of a host?

 

[beth]

Sorry for the confusion. I read so many posts it gets confusing at time who and what situaiton I'm talking about. But I do remember. I think the choice you made was the best one available at the time.
You absolutely can not speed up hypo treatment. It must be done for the full course.
YT is not likely to get rid of ich on its own. It may come back after the hypo. It may be worth going ahead and doing the formalin bathes just to be on the safe side. The procedure is detailed in the FAQ Thread.

 

[flamehawk]

Beth-No problem. Thanks.
Any additional thoughts on UV based on my last commetn?
Is 3 weeks the minimum you would hypo for?

 

[beth]

You can use a UV on a fish only tank. However, in a reef, or even a LR tank, it is not really a good choice. UV will kill indiscriminately "good" as well as "bad" organisms. In a reef tank good organism are thick in the water water colume. And are a food soruce for fiter feeders. Thus, you see that they would not be benefical in a reef tank.
Better than relying on a UV get a QT [Hey, that rhymed! ] Its cheaper and a whole lot more reliable. The goal, IMO is to never introduce ich or any other pathegen into your display. the only way to accomplish this is via QT.

 

[flamehawk]

I had the UV on for 3 years..no ich. took it off about 3 months ago because of the reasons you state and I now get ich. There is certainly a correlation. I never saw an appreciable difference in the mushrooms and leathers.
is 3 weeks minimum in hypo?
Thanks again Beth.