ick treatments?

[samantha]

I have read through all of the advice on the ick subject and I still have a few questions.
I recently added several new fish to my 45 gallon tank. (I don't have an observation
tank -- I know, stupid me). In about 3 weeks, my new powder blue tang had the ick
showing up on him/her. I have a tank full of live rock, coral banded shrimp, crabs,
anemone, chocolate chip starfish and feather dusters. So, I have been using Ick Away
with 0.075% Malachite Green in Aqueous Solution (I had read that copper solutions
would kill my invertebrates. I'm not sure what Malachite Green is, but it didn't hurt the
invertebrates.). I used it daily for about a week and the spots were gone. So I quit
using the treatment 2 days ago. Last night when I fed them, the tang, damsel and
clown fish were completely covered. I treated them last night and they look even worse
today.
My first question is: Would a freshwater dip be the first thing you all would do to help
remove the attached parasites?
Second question: What exactly is malachite green? Should I increase the dose since it is
so bad today?
Third question: What is the exact name of the garlic food y'all mention feeding the fish
to keep ick from attaching to them? And where do I get it?
Final question: The ick didn't appear until the day after I fed them some new fish food I
purchased from the pet store. The food is Omega One Veggie Flakes. I noticed it didn't
have a seal on it and the man at the petstore said that they refill the bottles. Could ick
be transferred through the food in any way?
Thanks to all of you who can help me understand this ick thing better.

 

[samantha]

I posted a message to the message board on ick yesterday morning. I was panicked. My fish were all covered in ick and I didn't know what to do. Since I didn't hear back from anyone, I'm not sure if I posted the message correctly. I lost my regal tang and one of my clownfish. I spent about 3 hours last night after work reading all of the notes I could find in this site on ick. Seems like a lot of folks are very knowledgeable about it. If anyone reads this note, please help me on a few things I am still fuzzy on.
I am lowering my salinity slowly (started last night after reading how to do this on this site). I will probably have my tank at 1.009 by tomorrow. The Malachite Green isn't doing any good now. (I read that some of you think it works and others think it is worthless. I'm now leaning to the worthless side.)
I have several freshwater tanks. I think today at lunch, I am going to move all of my freshwater out of my 15 gallon tank into my 30 gallon tank (all compatible fish). Then I will make the freshwater a salt water tank. Now, my question is, would it be better to move my live rock and invertebrates into the 15 gallon and treat the fish in their home? (My thought here is that they would be less stressed if I didn't move them) OR should I move the fish out of the 45 gallon into the 15 gallon? I am leaning towards the first option since 15 gallons is so small for my fish to live in for a month while undergoing copper treatments. (I have a yellow tang, 3 damsels, a scat that was aclimated to salt water, a neon goby and a clownfish that are still living as of 10:00 a.m.)
I must admit that even after reading postings, I am still confused and afraid of using copper. I saw some heated debate on what kind to use and how to use it. I live in a small town and it is going to be difficult to get special treatments. What seems to be the most common copper treatment used (one that should be available in most small pet stores)?
If you don't mind, please tell me how I should do it.
I think what scares me the most is the residual amounts of copper that I am supposed to clean up. I'm not clear on that?
Also, will the reduction of salinity kill my invertebrates? Should I keep the salinity at a normal reading in the tank they are in with the live rock?
I noticed that before I turn the tank lights out at night, the fish look ok. In the morning when I turn the light on, they are covered. Do these little ick bugs become more active when the lights are out? Should I be leaving the lights on all the time?
I hope someone will help me out. I've never posted on a bulletin board and I'm not even sure if I'm even putting it somewhere where anyone will see it.

 

[dms]

I have very similar problems and would love to see the response to Samatha's questions. I have now lost all my fish to ick and my water always tests perfect.
My inverts are fine, but I have added fish twice and they die within a week. Even my cleaner wrasse died in 5 days severely icked up.
What should I do to not lose my inverts but get this tank ready for fish again ??
I read that the time was 23 days, and the tank needs to cycle?
Desperate and discouraged,
David

 

[samantha]

Hi David,
I have almost lowered the salinity to 1.009 and the fish are still living (I'll have it finished tonight). I dipped the worst ones in freshwater yesterday to relieve them of their ick temporarily. I had read a posting that described the fresh dip as a way to make the ick 'explode' basically. And it does make them drop off the fish for the time being. I left my fish in the freshwater for about 5 minuts. I had also read that the water needed to be close in temperature to the saltwater they were currently in. I was careful (because I have killed others with a dip before) and it worked good.
I moved every invertebrate and live rock out of the tank into another tank. If your tank is like mine, you will know why that is a major pain (took about 2 hours).
I still used the Malachite green on the fish before closing down last night and they were all still alive this morning. As usual, mornings are the worst. One of the damsels and the clownfish were still covered with it. But the yellow tang didn't look too bad. As I continued to lower the salinity this afternoon, they seem to be doing ok.
I am currently soaking shrimp bits in garlic and water and will be feeding that to them in a few minutes. I think I saw a posting from Beth on trying the garlic thing. I'm not sure how long I can safely feed them that. If anyone can tell me, I would be grateful.
I am glad Terry said not to use Copper. I am just not comfortable with it. I am thankful to try the salinity reduction first.
It's so discouraging to lose fish. Saltwater are so expensive. Sometimes I am ready to throw in the towel .... but then when everything is good, I know why I keep trying. With all of my freshwater tanks and ponds, I still love my 45g saltwater the best. I can sit and watch the fish for hours.
I'll keep you posted on how the salinity reduction works for me and this ick problem.
For any of you ick knowledgeable folks out there, should I do a freshwater dip on the live rock before putting them back in the tank after it is cleared of ick -- just to be safe?
[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Samantha ]

 

[dms]

Samantha,
I am glad to know your friends are still alive and swimming. Thank you for your reply and update. I lost all of my fish to ich - twice now. From browsing the threads, I think I just need to wait at least three more weeks before putting fish back into the tank.
My only other question is around "cycling". With only an anenome, a fairly large star and a hermit crab what needs to be done besides water changes ?? Somebody mentioned droping in a dead shrimp ?

 

[fishswim]

Malachite green does harm inverts. Most medications do. I killed a shrimp with malachite green.
It is an effective medication for ich, but in higher quantities. Mine has .75%, which is a lot higher than most, which like yours is .075%. This is called Quickcure. Works really well, but can knock the inverts right out of the tank.

 

[samantha]

Hi David,
(After you get the ick out of your tank in a month) here is what I did to cycle my tank and it worked good for me. I was very cautious, so there may be faster ways, but this is what I did.....
I bought hardy fish (the cheaper ones since some are probably going to die)... I picked 2 small damsels (a blue velvet and a peach colored one). I also acclimated a guppy to the water (really cheap!). So that gave me 3 fish and a few invertebrates to start with (I started my tank in August 2000). I also put live rock in the tank (my petstore resource said that there were little organisms in the live rock that would help your water). We ordered the live rock from Saltwater fish and we really like it (their prices beat our local petstore).
I do a 1/4 water change every 2 weeks. The guppy lived for 4 months until I added a cardinal fish and he was eaten. The peach colored damsel lived for 6 months, but died when we moved the tank after moving into a new house. The blue velvet damsel is still living and is 3" long and over 1/2" thick (he's a monster!)
After initial setup, I waited 4 months, I started adding a new fish occassionally. For my lifestyle, I can't accommodate the fish that have special feeding needs (like live food), so I stick with the hardier ones that will also eat flakes. My favorite is my yellow tang.
Up until last month, everything had been doing so well. I was over-confident, I guess, and added a regal tang, a neon goby and 2 clownfish directly to the tank (I have not had ick with any fish I have added up until this batch). I believe the regal tang is the one that had ick. It didn't show up for 3 weeks and has managed to kill off the regal and a clown and infect the others. Now my tanks are in disarray and I have buckets everywhere. I now have a 15g quaranteen tank and will NEVER add a new fish to my 45g again without placing him in quaranteen for a month! A humbling and expensive experience!
Maybe if you will start with hardy fish first and wait about 6 months before you add the less hardy ones, you will have good luck too. (this is of course after you kill off the ick) I don't know about the dead shrimp thing? sorry! Wouldn't it mold and make your water stink?
Thank you 'fishswim' for the info on Malachite green. I guess why the Malachite green I bought didn't kill my invertebrates was because it was more diluted. I am glad. I love my coral banded shrimp and would be sad if he died. Now that I have the invertebrates out of the tank, I may try a stronger solution of it until the salinity reduction kicks in and kills off those nasty ick bugs.
I am still hoping someone will tell me if I should dip the live rock in FW before I put it back in the tank next month to be safe?