Ick????

mjdcmaki

Member
:help: We bought a clown fish and after a few days it had ick. It died. If we treat the whole tank with copper will the copper kill our feather duster and anemones? The reason we want to treat the whole tank is because these parasites lay eggs and will reproduce on other fish. (This is what the book we have says) Can we treat the whole tank even though we have sponge, feather dusters, anemones, coral, sea urchins, hermit crabs, snails and a star fish? :thinking:
 
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essop3

Guest
No.
Copper kills inverts. Ich is an invert, but so are all those things you listed. The copper will even stick to any rock that you have and kill inverts you add later.
Now the good news. If there are no fish the ich will die off in a few weeks. It cannot survive without a fish host. No treatment needed.
 

mjdcmaki

Member
Ok this is what we have going on here, what do we need to do? We have a 29 gallon with 4 small damsels that change color, 1 striped damsel and 1 blue/yellow damsel and the other invets that i mentioned. In our 10 gallon quarntine tank we have 1 blue/yellow damsel and 1 yellow damsel. We do have a 65 gallon we just bought yesterday and is not set up yet. So if we put just the fish in the 10 gallon and treat them all for ick would that bring the ammonia level up and wouldn't that be to many for a 10 gallon? How would we do this?
 

carshark

Active Member
Most Effective Treatment
HYPOSALINITY is Osmotic Shock Therapy [OST]. O.S.T. places the infectors [ich] in an environment in which they cannot hope to survive while the host, (or infected fish) can. This remedy WILL NOT work in reef systems or invert tanks as it incorporates lowering the specific gravity of the entire aquarium to 1.009 SG or to 14-16ppt [parts per trillion] salinity---this SG/salinity being too low for inverts, LR or LS. Marine invertebrates have the same osmotic concentration as the surrounding water and if placed in hyposaline conditions they will likely die of osmotic shock. Likewise, this procedure should not be used on sharks/rays, only boney fish. The procedure, can, however, work very well in strictly fish-only set ups.
The method of lowering salinity/SG is simple: Over the course of 48-hrs, salt water in the tank is replaced with fresh RO or DI water in several, but small increments until a SG of 1.009/salinity 14-16 ppt is achieved. Maintain pH, as pH tends to lower in hypo-saline water; you need to maintain a pH which is safe for marine fish and consistent with the levels in the display/hospital tank. The best instruments to use for measuring specific gravity are refractometers or high-quality, lab-grade glass hydrometers. The reason these instruments are recommended is because of their precision and the need to be very precise in attaining therapeutic SG/salinity for the procedure. Never use plastic sing arm type hydrometers. They are basically useless for this procedure, and, really, they are so inaccurate that they should not even be used for routine salt water assessment either. As to the beneficial microbes you rely upon to provide natural filtration in your aquaria/QT, NOT TO WORRY! The bacteria colony will survive, the fish will be more than fine; Ich, however, will not survive. By lowering the salinity, you will also be lowering the osmotic pressure of the water. The parasites NEED high osmotic pressure to convert saline water into freshwater. All marine animals need freshwater as we do [these parasites are considered marine animals as well, BTW]. They just convert it differently, usually via their tissues. Reduce this necessary pressure and the ich will die. As a higher life form, the fish will do fine with this short-term treatment. Preference for this treatment of ich over copper is based on toxicity. Hyposalinity has no ill effects on fish during or after treatment, whereas copper is a toxin, and could have enduring negative effects on fish even following a successful treatment.
Maintain the 1.009 SG/16-14 ppt salinity in the tank for 3-4 wks AFTER no visible signs of ich are present with your fish. After that time, you can slowly, over the course of several [5-7] days, raise the salinity back to normal levell. Take longer raising the salinity then you did lowering it. If the fish are in a separate treatment tank, leave them there for 5-7 days after returning the salinity to normal levels. If the fish are well after this time, then move them back to the display.
Copper Treatment is highly effective when applied precisely and monitored closely. The drawbacks to copper, however, unlike hyposalinity, is that copper is a toxin---to both parasite, as well as your fish.
In this treatment, the hobbyist will use use [best choice] Cupramine which is manufactured by Seachem. You will also need a compatible copper test kit that will “work with” the copper. If you use Cupramine, then also select Seachem’s copper test kit.
You should always set up a hospital tank, never adding copper directly to your display. At all times, maintain therapeutic copper levels in the hospital, using the copper test kit daily. READ THE LABEL of your medication and follow the directions. Like hyposalinity, copper treatment requires precision. Not enough copper, and the treatment is ineffective. Too much copper, and the treatment could be lethal to your fish. Take care, be attentive.
The treatment course for copper is 3 weeks after you have attained therapeutic levels. Following treatment, you should leave your fish in the hospital tank for an additional week for observation.
What else should I do during treatment?
Continue common sense maintenance practices. That means water changes, water quality tests, etc. In this case, while treating, you will want to perform water changes that match the water in your QT. If your tank is under hyposalinity, then the water you change out, must also be at the same salinity/pH as the water you remove from the tank. Likewise, if you remove copper treated water, then the water you put back into the tank needs to be copper treated as well, at the the appropriate therapeutic level.
 
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essop3

Guest
I didn't know you had other fish. The thread he linked you to gives the right advice.
 

mjdcmaki

Member
I called our local fish stores and they both said they do have and organic product that allows you to treat the fish in the same tank they are in and the stuff will not hurt the inverts that are in the tank. And it will treat the whole tank. So we are going to try that.
 

evilbob22

Member
Before you do that, think about this... Ick is an invert and the stuff they are selling basically says "put it in the tank and it will seek out an destroy only one specific invert". Chances are you would just be throwing your money away on some snake oil.
 

carshark

Active Member
there is a brand out there called "No ICH" it is supposedly invert safe back when i had a problem the first time it did work but only temporarily, it WILL show up again even if this product you talk about will work, i think it will be a 50 to 60 dollar useless purchase, and will only mask any but again i say it WILL show up again, so good luck but remember what i linked to you and messaged to you earlier, this is the only solution..move your inverts to QT and hypo the tank, it will work and it will kill the parasite once and for all, spend the money on a refractometer from a certain auction site, even less than what that treatment is going to cost you, including shipping! and hypo the tank. good luck!
 

carshark

Active Member
i gotta bump this again i hope you see this thread and dont go the chemical route, this info will save you headaches
 
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