ID this disease???

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underdasea

Guest
My apologies in advance for the bad pics, but with the camera I have to work with, these are the best I could get.
Can someone please identify this disease that killed my Bicolor Angel and tell me whether or not I'll need to treat the DT & QT it was in before I add any other fish?




 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Explain how that evolved, and describe it. The pictures are too bad to get detailed info.
 
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underdasea

Guest
Well it evolved over a 2 day period. I lost my clown, royal gramma, and flame angel to Ich because I couldn't get my QT cycled. They went one by one over a period of a week or two even though I was used Ich Attack to buy myself some time to get the QT cycled. Just before this last Angel died, a condi anemone shriveled up (but I pulled it out of the tank before it started to disintegrate.
As far as the spot is concerned, it almost looked like the glaze on a glazed doughnut that was covering the middle of his body back to his tail. It didn't look like any Ich I've ever seen, as it was more of a thicker glaze-like white spot. I thought it might be Brook, but he died before I got the chance to treat him.
As it relates to water parameters, everything is fine. Ammonia and Nitrite are 0, pH 8.1, Nitrate is about 2-5 ppm. The temperature does fluctuate rather wildly since I started using T5's from about 77 to 82.5 at the end of the light cycle. Nevertheless, my cleaner shrimp and sand sifting star are doing fine (which leads me to believe it may have been Ich).
Sorry for the bad pics. That was the best pics I could get using the camera that I had available.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, that site seemingly has many of the pictures posted by me on this site on their own site.
 

cpg

Member
Just tells you what other people think about your help and expertise Beth..Keep it up...I am new to the hobby, and your feedback, along with this site has been great..
Sorry about your losses under....
 
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underdasea

Guest
It started by fading skin and quickly escalated to the glazed look. I'm not sure if the flesh was actually eroding away, but the best way to describe it is that it looked like the glaze of a doughnut.
The downward spiral began with the death of the clown. She showed no signs of Ich or any other disease, so I chalked it up to old age (as she had been in my DT since I set it up about 3 years ago). Then my Royal Gramma and Flame Angel started showing signs of Ich and I went and purchased 2 QT tanks and tried to get them cycled. In the mean time, I used the Ich Attack to buy time, but both of them succumbed to Ich before I could get the QT cycled. The Bicolor Angel was the last fish in the tank and he died about a week and a half after the Flame and Royal Gramma. The disease markings on the Bicolor looked much different than Ich, but all of the inverts (sand star, cleaner shrimp, condi anemone) are still alive.
Could stray voltage be causing any of the problems? My plan is to leave the tank fishless for 6 weeks, but my concern is whether or not there is another disease (aside from Ich) that is in the tank that I need to eradicate before I put inhabitants back in in a couple of months?
 
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underdasea

Guest
Okay, my last condi anemone doesn't appear to be looking all that well. While all the water parameters test fine (Ammonia & Nitrite =0, pH 8.2, Nitrate 5 ppm, Salinity 1.023), the temperature gets up to about 84 towards the end of the light cycle. I added a 6X54 TEK T5 light a month or so ago, which is when the problems started to begin (i.e. fish started to die).
Despite the common belief that the T5's run cooler, I can't say that my experience has proven that to be true. When I ran strictly CF's, everything was fine. After I added the T5's, things began to take a downward spiral. In addition to the T5's, the other thing that concerns me is the Ich Attack medicine I put in the DT several weeks ago to buy time to get the QT cycled. Despite running carbon and doing 3 or 4 water changes, the green junk is still prevalent in the system. Aside from draining it completely and refilling it, I'm not sure what to do to remove the medicine.
Is the temperature combined with the residual medicine to blame for my misfortune or does anyone else have any ideas what the problem may be?
 
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tizzo

Guest
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2520733
Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, that site seemingly has many of the pictures posted by me on this site on their own site.

hahaha!!
We got the source, I love it!
 
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tizzo

Guest
I am trying to read and understand your scenario, but one thing that stood out is that your aquarium is 84 degrees in the evening. What is the temp in the morning?? I'm wondering how much of a fluctuation you are having.
 

spanko

Active Member
Did your ammonia go up with the death of the other fish. Here is an article on ammonia poisoning and its affect on fish.
Ammonia Poisoning
From Shirlie Sharpe,
Disease Type: Environmental
Cause: Unionized Ammonia (NH3)
Description: Ammonia poisoning is one of the biggest killers of aquarium fish. It occurs most often when a tank is newly set up. However, it can also occur in an established tank when too many new fish have been added at one time, when the filter fails due to power or mechanical failure, or if bacterial colonies die off due to the use of medications or sudden change in water conditions.
# Symptoms: Fish gasp for breath at the water surface
# Purple or red gills
# Fish is lethargic
# Loss of appetite
# Fish lays at the bottom of the tank
# Red streaking on the fins or body
Ammonia poisoning can happen suddenly, or over a period of days. Initially the fish may be seen gasping at the surface for air. The gills will begin to turn red or lilac in color, and may appear to be bleeding. The fish will being to lose its appetite and become increasingly lethargic. In some cases fish may be observed laying at the bottom of the tank with clamped fins.
As the damage from the ammonia poisoning continues, the tissues will be damaged as evidenced by red streaks or bloody patches that appear on the body and fins. Internal damage is occurring to the brain, organs, and central nervous system. The fish begins to hemorrhage internally and externally, and eventually dies.
# 25 - 50% water change
# Use chemical to neutralize ammonia
# Discontinue or reduce feeding
If the ammonia level rises above 1 ppm as measured by a standard test kit, begin treatment immediately. Several water changes within a short period of time may be required to drop the ammonia to below 1 ppm.
If the fish are in severe distress, the use of a chemical to neutralize the ammonia is recommended. Feedings should be restricted so that additional waste is reduced. In cases of very high ammonia levels, feedings should be discontinued for several days. No new fish should be added until the tank until the ammonia and nitrite levels have fallen to zero.
Because there are so many variables, there is no magic number to watch for. However, there are general guidelines to follow.
At a level of level of 1 ppm or 1 mg/l, fish are under stress, even if they don't appear in acute distress. Levels even lower than that can be fatal if the fish are exposed continuously for several days. For that reason it is critical to continue daily testing and treatment until the ammonia drops to zero. When ammonia is elevated for a long period, it is not unusual to lose fish even after the ammonia levels start to drop.
# Prevention: Stock new tanks slowly
# Feed sparingly and remove uneaten food
# Change water regularly
# Test water regularly to catch problems early
The key to avoiding fish death from ammonia poisoning is to avoid ammonia spikes in the first place. When starting a new tank, add only a couple of fish initially and do not add more until the tank is completely cycled. Even in an well established tank, only add a couple of new fish at a time and avoid overstocking. Feed fish small quantities of foods, and remove any food not consumed in five minutes. Clean the tank weekly, taking care to remove an dead plants or other debris. Perform a partial water change at least every other week, more often in small heavily stocked tanks. Test the water for ammonia at least twice a month to detect problems before they become serious. Anytime a fish appears to be ill, test for ammonia to rule out ammonia poisoning. If the filter stops, test for ammonia twenty-four hours later to ensure that the bacterial colonies that eliminate wastes were not affected.
 
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tizzo

Guest
I was looking through disease articles and I saw this pic. This is the closest I have seen to what your fish showed... It doesn't help much, but if it's true then it's a start...
 

darren0311

Member
Don't know if it is any help or not but check your heater, I ran into a problem that was simular to this and come to find out I have a very small crack in my heater
 
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underdasea

Guest
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2532815
I am trying to read and understand your scenario, but one thing that stood out is that your aquarium is 84 degrees in the evening. What is the temp in the morning?? I'm wondering how much of a fluctuation you are having.
It can vary from 78-84 dependent upon the ambient temperature. It's in my basement (finished basement) and the thermostat keeps the temp in my house at 72.
Aside from running a chiller or going back to the CF's, I'm not sure how to control the temp.
 
U

underdasea

Guest
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2532823
Did your ammonia go up with the death of the other fish. Here is an article on ammonia poisoning and its affect on fish.
Ammonia Poisoning
From Shirlie Sharpe,
Disease Type: Environmental
Cause: Unionized Ammonia (NH3)
Description: Ammonia poisoning is one of the biggest killers of aquarium fish. It occurs most often when a tank is newly set up. However, it can also occur in an established tank when too many new fish have been added at one time, when the filter fails due to power or mechanical failure, or if bacterial colonies die off due to the use of medications or sudden change in water conditions.
# Symptoms: Fish gasp for breath at the water surface
# Purple or red gills
# Fish is lethargic
# Loss of appetite
# Fish lays at the bottom of the tank
# Red streaking on the fins or body
Ammonia poisoning can happen suddenly, or over a period of days. Initially the fish may be seen gasping at the surface for air. The gills will begin to turn red or lilac in color, and may appear to be bleeding. The fish will being to lose its appetite and become increasingly lethargic. In some cases fish may be observed laying at the bottom of the tank with clamped fins.
As the damage from the ammonia poisoning continues, the tissues will be damaged as evidenced by red streaks or bloody patches that appear on the body and fins. Internal damage is occurring to the brain, organs, and central nervous system. The fish begins to hemorrhage internally and externally, and eventually dies.
# 25 - 50% water change
# Use chemical to neutralize ammonia
# Discontinue or reduce feeding
If the ammonia level rises above 1 ppm as measured by a standard test kit, begin treatment immediately. Several water changes within a short period of time may be required to drop the ammonia to below 1 ppm.
If the fish are in severe distress, the use of a chemical to neutralize the ammonia is recommended. Feedings should be restricted so that additional waste is reduced. In cases of very high ammonia levels, feedings should be discontinued for several days. No new fish should be added until the tank until the ammonia and nitrite levels have fallen to zero.
Because there are so many variables, there is no magic number to watch for. However, there are general guidelines to follow.
At a level of level of 1 ppm or 1 mg/l, fish are under stress, even if they don't appear in acute distress. Levels even lower than that can be fatal if the fish are exposed continuously for several days. For that reason it is critical to continue daily testing and treatment until the ammonia drops to zero. When ammonia is elevated for a long period, it is not unusual to lose fish even after the ammonia levels start to drop.
# Prevention: Stock new tanks slowly
# Feed sparingly and remove uneaten food
# Change water regularly
# Test water regularly to catch problems early
The key to avoiding fish death from ammonia poisoning is to avoid ammonia spikes in the first place. When starting a new tank, add only a couple of fish initially and do not add more until the tank is completely cycled. Even in an well established tank, only add a couple of new fish at a time and avoid overstocking. Feed fish small quantities of foods, and remove any food not consumed in five minutes. Clean the tank weekly, taking care to remove an dead plants or other debris. Perform a partial water change at least every other week, more often in small heavily stocked tanks. Test the water for ammonia at least twice a month to detect problems before they become serious. Anytime a fish appears to be ill, test for ammonia to rule out ammonia poisoning. If the filter stops, test for ammonia twenty-four hours later to ensure that the bacterial colonies that eliminate wastes were not affected.
I'm not really seeing any signs of any ammonia increase and the ranges have stayed at 0 ppm. I'll keep my eye on it, but as of right now, ammonia doesn't seem to be the culprit.
Thanks for the info.
 
U

underdasea

Guest
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2533799
I was looking through disease articles and I saw this pic. This is the closest I have seen to what your fish showed... It doesn't help much, but if it's true then it's a start...
That actually looks very similar. Can you pm me a link to that article? I haven't seen that anywhere on here.
Thanks.
 
U

underdasea

Guest
Originally Posted by darren0311
http:///forum/post/2533806
Don't know if it is any help or not but check your heater, I ran into a problem that was simular to this and come to find out I have a very small crack in my heater
I'll do that. Thanks for the tip.
 
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