Idea on Refugium..Opinions Please..

[eng50]

Please give me your opinions on this idea..
My sump is 20 gal, standard wet/dry, sponge, with PS and return pump
My idea is to have the return stay the same, flowing over media from spray bar at left end, heater is submerged below, then water flows through sponge into center area when PS and return pump is, what will be new would be..
Right side..10 " will have a full height plexiglass divider with a bulkhead fitting for inflow possibly with a spray bar, and notches like an overflow box cut in the top for return water to sump. It would be fed by a tee on the return line and a ball valve to control flow t o bulkhead/spraybar.
I dont have the exact calculations, but the refugium area would be 12x12x10, probably close to 5 gal...
I think there would be no issues with power failure, flooding and it is a simple design with pods etc being pumped back in..
I wish I could post a picture of the idea, If I do it I will post one then, I think this is the easiest and simplest way of adding a refugium, and getting all the benefits without and bad stuff..but will it be effective??
Please add any and all input....and experience if anyone has done this!
Thank you!!

 

[oceanjumper]

Yes, that could work as long as the water level in the refuge is higher than in the sump.
Like I plan to do, you can also tap off water from the main drain of your display tank in stead of a T on the return line. Somehow I don't like to mess with lines attached to a pump. In my setup you also need a little bit less capacity in your sump in case of power failure. I have submitted a few posts with my ideas yesterday.
Good luck

 

[oceanjumper]

By the way, I noticed we have the same skimmer. How hav eyou placed your skimmer in the sump? With the skimmer/overflow box attached to it? Or, did you remove it and extended the hoses?

 

[eng50]

My skimmer is set up for in sump application, and actually I was just toying with the idea to use the PS to feed the refugium, It would work out perfectly, I think...I will try to finish the project today and will let you know how it turned out/post pics
As far as the water level, the easiest way to do it is to make the divider full height..that way the PS dumps into the refuge area, and it spills back to the pump area...
Bill

 

[eng50]

By the way, the nice thing about the return line T is that the water is somewhat pressurized, and can be gated with a ball valve. I actually paln to put 2 ball valves in so I can shut down the pumps etc and remove the sump without having to worry about water etc.

 

[oceanjumper]

I like your idea of using the PS as pump for the refuge but I prefer to supply "dirty" water to the sump. Afterall, that's what it is intended to do.
Also, I still don't like valve on my return line. It happened once to me the line popped off the pump, the pump squirted water all over under my tank including the electric wires. Though admittingly, it was a equipment failure of the 1 month old CAP 2200. The ball valve --attached directly to the pump-- split in two parts because the glue didn't keep it together..... I almost electricuted myself....
It will be neat to see all the different options. I can't wait for my ordered parts to come in.

 

[eng50]

I have siliconed the divider in and will have it done tomorrow..the hardest part is not having a filter for 24 hrs!! Just stupid worry..anyway, I hope it works out well, what is the advantage of "dirty water"? The water in the refuge is being cleaned by the algea, and it doesnt require large organics does it?
Just want to make sure I am doing the right thing! Thats terrible what happened to your system, bad ball valve I guess...well I hope what I am doing will reemove all posibility of problems, and only help..
Just a side note/question...Will a refugium help with nuisance algea growth? Like slow it or help stop it?

 

[oceanjumper]

There are no stupid questions. Actually, you hit the nail on the head. The reasons why I like a refuge are:
- to have another "tank" to dream away with...
- to keep macro algae (plants) that will outcompete nuisance (micro)algae for nitrates (so, the algae issue should become better with a refuge)
- to grow pods and other kritters (but since the return to the main tank goes via the sump and the sump pump, I'm not sure if it will contribute positively. I read most kritters get killed by the pump)
- to have a sandbed (I have -unfortunately- CC in my display tank
I think (but it is speculation) it is better to feed the refuge tank water (with detritus, nitrates, organic material) in stead of skimmed (clean) water. Nevertheless, it might not make a big difference if the total flowrate (of the main circulation) is much larger than that the skimmer can handle.

 

[broomer5]

Bill,
I like your plan/design.
Pumping water to the refugium side under pressure from your return pump tee is my preferred route too.
I don't like to disrupt any "draining" water in the display tank overflow drains.
IMO - it doesn't matter where the water comes from.
If it comes from the display tank, or skimmer or wherever.
The skimmer does pull some dissolved organic compounds out as the water passes through it - but it certainly does not remove "all" of these compound upon a single pass.
Water goes around and around - and after hours and hours of passing through the skimmer - more is removed.
Not just one pass and the exiting water is 100% cleaned.
Sound great to me - any pics ?

 

[oceanjumper]

Broomer,
Now you make me wonder if I should not just get an additional rio in my sump to pump water from the sump to the refuge. It is certainly a lot easier than to T the drainline (or to drill the overflow box and add a second drain). I wish experience could tell. I still don't like the idea of T-ing the return line (besides what I wrote earlier, it also reduces the flow to the main tank (which is fine if you have "overcapicty of flow")). However, if that is what all you guys have, it might just be the way to go....

 

[eng50]

Well its morning and I think the silicone is hard, I am trying to wait, but it seems cured! Anyone know how long it takes before you can use something that has been siliconed? I will post the pics this evening when it is done!
What type of algea is best to put in there, or is it better to have a variety?

 

[oceanjumper]

You know, I admire your patience. I have used silicone before (the special aquarium silicone) and just waited two/three hours and dumped in water. Never noticed any drawbacks....
I don't have it myself (yet) but I would get a variety of caulerpa. I'm sure you can get some at the LFS. On the other hand, it would be great if we can find a local colleague-hobbyist that harvests it and normally throws it out.
Keep posting those pic's! Oh, I just made a website (see signature) What ya think?

 

[broomer5]

Hey OceanJumper,
If you've not maxed out your overflow capacity ( gph ) with your return pump yet - maybe add another pump to the sump, and do the following.
One return pump running day and night - this feeds the display tank water all the time. Tee off of this one for your refugium feed.
Then if you have some more overflow capacity left - place another return pump in the sump and return this water to the display too.
Set it up on a timer for on/off cycles during the day/night.
It's no wavemaker by any means - but it may do a nice job adding some nice random flow patterns to the display tank.
I've got something like this going on my 75 reef - and it works great. No powerheads needed ( which I really like ).
Again - it all comes down to the size overflow you have - and if it's already maxed out or not.
If it is - not a good idea.
If not though
Just something to consider
Like you new website too OceanJumper !!

 

[broomer5]

OceanJumper
BTW - thought I'd include this pic of a pretty easy way to tee off of a return pump.
Home Depot stuff -
A PVC threaded union - so you can easily take the pump out for routine maintenance.
Threaded hose barbed PVC fittings.
Some vinyl tubing and hose clamps. I like to use the plastic hose clamps on connections that are wet with saltwater, but the stainless steel ones work really well on your dry connections.
PVC ball valve and tee.
Cheap - doesn't leak and works good.
Not near as "professional" looking as some other folks method - but it works for me.
Whatever .... just thought you might like to see it.
Later ...

 

[oceanjumper]

Thx Broomer~ I will think about it. Another problem is I do not know if I'm maxed out with the overflow capacity or not. Nevertheless, I do like your different current solutions. It is what you have yourself as well, right?
Other question. I noticed you have a picture of a mandarin on your website. I really like that fish. Unfortunately I do not have a DSB. What do you think, will a refuge provide enough pods (even while they have to pass the sump-pump)? Well, I guess that's hard to answer. I probably should see if the # of pods in my display tank will go up. Cheers

 

[oceanjumper]

Thx again. That picture did help. What is that white thing on your pump? What does it do? Is that what you call the "PVC threaded union"?

 

[broomer5]

Yep - that's a union.
It has threads on either end.
One end screws onto the pump.
The other end to the threaded hose barb.
Then in the middle - it has a knurled ring that also is threaded.
This ring - when unscrewed - allows the union to separate into two halves. There's a gasket ( O-ring ) in between the two halves where they mate together.
This let's you take the pump off without disturbing all the plumbing on top of it.
Pretty nifty - and no tools required. Just hand tight does the trick.
I had two mandarin dragonettes a couple years ago.
One Spotted - in 55 gallon tank with live rock.
One Psychedelic - in 30 gallon with live rock.
They quickly ate all the pods - and reduced the population down to an unsustainable level.
They would nip at other foods occasionally, and I thought I would be okay keeping them.
One died - from my own ignorance and stupidity.
I returned the other to the LFS - and decided to never keep one again - unless I felt I could do so properly.
They eat ALL THE TIME - and you must have a renewable food source - like pods - to keep them long term.
A few months was not long term - so I've decided to maintain my pods for my sandbed - and forego keeping these beautiful fish.
I'll look at them online or sneak a peek now and then at the stores.
Great fish ~ no doubt about it - but not for me anymore
Maybe someday - in a bigger tank - with more rock and pods - and a really productive refugiuim in the true sense of the word - that I can keep enough live natural food available.
Until then - nope.

 

[eng50]

Its up and running, out to the store for a few last minute parts and some algea...will post pics when I get back...Thanks for the help and support, can't wait to see what you think...
Bill

 

[oceanjumper]

Yahoo! I got my first parts in. See pictures how I assembled the refugium. Took me 5 min. Now it's waiting for the bulkheads to come in, and deciding how I am going the feed the fuge.... I am leaning towards Broomers suggestion.

 

[eng50]

Here is a picture of what I have done...
Glad to see you are on your way OJ!! Hey did I see that you have a top off setup? If so, how did you do that, I could really use that!!
Thanks, and let me know what you think....