If Heaven is so great, why do people wait to get there?

[darthtang aw]

Aggie, Christians make all kinds of stuff up to call "sin"...drinking, smoking, cursing for example, simply are not called sin in the Holy books. To be honest suicide isn't either... lots of  warriors mentioned in the writings who were mortally injured, would request death. However while it isn't called SIN in the books, such things are not good for you, and are considered by the religious folks to not be something to indulge in.
The concept they cling to is "Thou shalt not kill" however according to "modern day" Christians, Jesus took away the commandments, and they are no longer in force. LOL...Tithing is also a commandment from the law, they want to keep that one too. To those who are devout Christians on the site: Sorry, I couldn't resist, it's just too silly for me not to comment on it. I personally think the commandments are all in full force.
The point is this, if it's a sin to kill, even though it isn't the unforgivable sin, then it's a dangerous sin to kill yourself since you won't live to repent of the sin. Those who believe that, would be horrified to think their loved one is going to burn in hell for ever and ever....that's sure something to hold off for as long as you can.
In the end...There is an "hereafter" but it isn't guaranteed that a person has "done enough, understood enough, or experienced enough" to merit that kingdom, so cutting yourself short isn't a wise decision.
Keep in mind the suicidal person is not THINKING right, they are suffering depression, and many times the fear of such a sin is the only thing that may keep that person alive long enough to seek the help they need. There is help out there, and suicide is a very permanent solution to a very temporary feeling. With that wisdom comes the understanding that whatever it takes to deter a depressed person from doing the unthinkable, is a good thing.
As for endless suffering, my personal opinion is that if a loved one asks for death, the person who does the deed shouldn't be charged with murder....but it's a very slippery slope, where do you draw the line? I like to keep the mindset that with modern medicine, a cure could be just around the corner...never give up.
If they are mortally wounded, this is not suicide, as they are mortally wounded and will not live. This is mercy.
Which christian religion states the ten commandments no longer apply?

 

[darthtang aw]

Why is wanting to end your life prematurely make you a bad person?  If you honestly believe that there is a hereafter, and getting there sooner than later makes YOU happy, why should it matter who else it affects?  I suppose you could call that being selfish, but where does it say we are forced to pander and please those we care about, whether they are family members or just mere acquaintances?  Too many people find grief in death.  In one sentence you talk about when someone dies, they "are now in a better place".  But in the next sentence, you grieve and feel pain simply because they are no longer "here" for you to have whatever relationship you want with them.  So whose the one being selfish in that scenario?
There's also different definition of the term suicide.  It's one thing when someone just walks off and shoots themselves in the head for whatever reasons they had, and it's another when it's someone who has a debilitating disease that simply wants to die because they no longer want to suffer.  If that person takes his/her own life, then technically it's the same as suicide, but you can see the obvious differences between the two.  The first one is considered a 'sin' simply because the individual didn't give his/her loved one's the chance to say goodbye, or come to terms for why they wanted to leave this world.  The second one?  Is it still considered a 'sin', or simply a level of compassion for understanding why the individual wants to end their life sooner than the inevitable?
Ending your life prematurely inflicts pain and suffering on those that surround you.
I personally do not consider assisted suicide suicide in some cases. There is a concept called mercy. It is touched on in religion. However in this day and age it is ignored. If a person is suffering in physical pain and not expected to live, then this would not be suicide. It is no different than being mortally wounded in battle and rather than bleed out with a painful untreatable stomach wound the person is granted mercy and killed immediately at their behest.
The father that commits suicide leaves unanswered questions behind with their children. Children and wives are left alone, no one to care and comfort them through life.
Your question could be taken further using your statements. When children are born, they are "born in sin". however they are also given a "pass" since they can not make the decision to devote and follow a life of God. So why not just kill the child immediately. This way it goes immediately to heaven? It would be "logical". However this breaks several commandments.
The easy way I can explain why suicide is not an option for religious folks is these seven simple reasons.
Reason #1: Suicide rejects God’s offer of inner peace.
Reason #2: Suicide rejects God’s sovereignty over the length of your life.
Reason #3: Suicide rejects God’s right to be Lord over your life.
Reason #4: Suicide rejects God’s commandment not to murder.
Reason #5: Suicide rejects God’s ability to heal your hurts
Reason #6: Suicide rejects God’s plan to give you hope.
Reason #7: Suicide rejects God’s power already within you to make you godly.

 

[aggiealum]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397510/if-heaven-is-so-great-why-do-people-wait-to-get-there/20#post_3543652
Ending your life prematurely inflicts pain and suffering on those that surround you.
I personally do not consider assisted suicide suicide in some cases. There is a concept called mercy. It is touched on in religion. However in this day and age it is ignored. If a person is suffering in physical pain and not expected to live, then this would not be suicide. It is no different than being mortally wounded in battle and rather than bleed out with a painful untreatable stomach wound the person is granted mercy and killed immediately at their behest.
The father that commits suicide leaves unanswered questions behind with their children. Children and wives are left alone, no one to care and comfort them through life.
Your question could be taken further using your statements. When children are born, they are "born in sin". however they are also given a "pass" since they can not make the decision to devote and follow a life of God. So why not just kill the child immediately. This way it goes immediately to heaven? It would be "logical". However this breaks several commandments.
The easy way I can explain why suicide is not an option for religious folks is these seven simple reasons.
Reason #1: Suicide rejects God’s offer of inner peace.
Reason #2: Suicide rejects God’s sovereignty over the length of your life.
Reason #3: Suicide rejects God’s right to be Lord over your life.
Reason #4: Suicide rejects God’s commandment not to murder.
Reason #5: Suicide rejects God’s ability to heal your hurts
Reason #6: Suicide rejects God’s plan to give you hope.
Reason #7: Suicide rejects God’s power already within you to make you godly.
Again, you want to put family thoughts and feelings over the thoughts and feelings of the individual. v


Your reason's have to imply you actually know what God's intentions or "feelings" regarding this issue really are. Yet again, it's a hypothesis based on what you read and interpret from the Bible. There no physical way to prove your theories without dying to validate them. You're also basing your logic on the common definition of suicide. Society seems to feel that anyone who contemplates ending their life prematurely, obviously has some mental illness or has some form of major depression. But if you look at that death as simply an opportunity for an individual to obtain the inner peace it's believed you obtain when going to Heaven on their own terms, then that completely changes the perception of how we define suicide.

I also find it somewhat unrealistic in regards to your perceptions of the power you feel God has over your life. Do you honestly feel that there's this Supreme Being "hovering" or watching over you that actually dictates how long you're allowed to live? "Be Lord over your life"? What exactly does that entail? Does God whisper thoughts into your brain that dictate the path you take in life, that you have no control over your own destiny? And what are you implying about God making you "godly"? So when you die, you become God yourself? I spent my entire childhood, and part of my young adult life as part of a very religious family, attending church and even going to a religious school, and I don't recall ever learning these tenets your using as reasons to validate why suicide is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397510/if-heaven-is-so-great-why-do-people-wait-to-get-there/20#post_3543652
Ending your life prematurely inflicts pain and suffering on those that surround you.
I personally do not consider assisted suicide suicide in some cases. There is a concept called mercy. It is touched on in religion. However in this day and age it is ignored. If a person is suffering in physical pain and not expected to live, then this would not be suicide. It is no different than being mortally wounded in battle and rather than bleed out with a painful untreatable stomach wound the person is granted mercy and killed immediately at their behest.
The father that commits suicide leaves unanswered questions behind with their children. Children and wives are left alone, no one to care and comfort them through life.
Your question could be taken further using your statements. When children are born, they are "born in sin". however they are also given a "pass" since they can not make the decision to devote and follow a life of God. So why not just kill the child immediately. This way it goes immediately to heaven? It would be "logical". However this breaks several commandments.
The easy way I can explain why suicide is not an option for religious folks is these seven simple reasons.
Reason #1: Suicide rejects God’s offer of inner peace.
Reason #2: Suicide rejects God’s sovereignty over the length of your life.
Reason #3: Suicide rejects God’s right to be Lord over your life.
Reason #4: Suicide rejects God’s commandment not to murder.
Reason #5: Suicide rejects God’s ability to heal your hurts
Reason #6: Suicide rejects God’s plan to give you hope.
Reason #7: Suicide rejects God’s power already within you to make you godly.
Again, your putting the feelings and emotions of the family members over those of the individual. In a sense that is irrelevant and germane to the decision a person makes. We don't live our lives to please others, our priority is to please ourselves and fulfill our own dreams and destiny.

You basing your interpretations on the known definition of the word suicide. Society has made that word demeaning in relation to an individual to end his/her life on their own terms, not by anyone else's, or God if they actually believe in that persona. Society likens it to a mental illness, or some form of major depression, when in fact an individual who truly believes there's a Heaven, may simply want to attain that inner peace and fulfillment when THEY decide. You don't seem to mind if someone with a terminal illness would choose to end their life prematurely on their own terms, instead you change the definition of that from 'suicide' to 'mercy', when in the overall context of things, they are one in the same. So would these Seven Religious Reasons still apply in that situation?

And these Seven Reasons are why I've walked away entirely from religious beliefs. I don't see the logical or physical proof that shows there is this Supreme Being that is the "Lord over my life", controlling everything I do, and determining my destiny. I don`t believe there's a predetermined time I'm 'designated' to live. If I were to contract some fatal disease, I'm not going to believe it was "God's decision to give me that disease". If I get into a fatal accident, I'd simply write it off as being in the wrong place at the wrong time. God didn't 'push' me in front of that car or off that cliff. We have physical scientific evidence that shows how the body can heal itself when inflicted by a disease or injury. I give myself hope. I don`t have to believe there's this Spirit doing it for me. And I don't know how to respond to the statement that there's this inner power I have to make me 'godly'. Is that for when I die, or is there some time in my life where I become a superhero, or move up to the same status as Zeus or any of the other Greek Gods?

 

[darthtang aw]

You ask why. I gave you the answers. Now you are debating the validity of the interpretation and the faith. Thus changing the question.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397510/if-heaven-is-so-great-why-do-people-wait-to-get-there/20#post_3543647
If they are mortally wounded, this is not suicide, as they are mortally wounded and will not live. This is mercy.
Which christian religion states the ten commandments no longer apply?

Mercy killing, just like helping a person end their own suffering if they are terminally ill is the same thing. 1 Samuel 31_____ Falling on ones own sword when they realize how injured they are, and a terminally ill person ending their own life because there is no hope of recovery is the same thing.

Name one church that does preach to follow the law....


As for Aggie, no amount of explanation is good enough, it's really a waste of your time, as you pointed out from the start.

 

[pezenfuego]

“The Christian shoemaker does his duty not by putting little crosses on the shoes, but by making good shoes, because God is interested in good craftsmanship.”
― Martin Luther

This quote may be overused, but for good reason. Life is a gift; you have to know sour to enjoy sweet. But even more than that, the reward for living a good life is not only heaven, but the journey itself. If you cannot appreciate the journey, then I feel really sorry for you.