If you didnt think Stone was a Kook before.....

[veni vidi vici]

Oliver Stone's 'Secret History' to put Hitler 'in context'
Oliver stone TCA -- Director Oliver Stone's upcoming Showtime documentary miniseries "Secret History of America" promises to put mass murderers such as Stalin and Hitler "in context."
"Stalin, Hitler, Mao, McCarthy -- these people have been vilified pretty thoroughly by history," Stone told reporters at the Television Critics Association's semi-annual press tour in Pasadena.
"Stalin has a complete other story," Stone said. "Not to paint him as a hero, but to tell a more factual representation. He fought the German war machine more than any single person. We can't judge people as only 'bad' or 'good.' Hitler is an easy scapegoat throughout history and its been used cheaply. He's the product of a series of actions. It's cause and effect ... People in America don't know the connection between WWI and WWII ... I've been able to walk in Stalin's shoes and Hitler's shoes to understand their point of view. We're going to educate our minds and liberalize them and broaden them. We want to move beyond opinions ... Go into the funding of the Nazi party. How many American corporations were involved, from GM through IBM. Hitler is just a man who could have easily been assassinated."
http://www.thrfeed.com/2010/01/olive...y-america.html
What is this crap???? "educate our minds and liberalize them and broaden them."Are you kidding me??
And can some one please tell me how in the hell does McCarthy get put into the same sentence with Mao,Stalin and Hitler???Friggin America hating liberals.

 

[reefraff]

Stone does some interesting stuff but people take him too seriously. They really should place a disclaimer at the beginning of his films mentioning they are not documentaries.
As far as this one goes it really sounds like something I would like to see but I think it should be rated X. Kids get enough skewed history in school, we don't need to be adding this to the mix

 

[slf125]

While I do think Hitler is someone to be despised. Stone has point, he was someone that could be assassinated, Grhongring(spelling?) his second in command and Himmler were worse. Assassinating him would have done nothing.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/3206263
What is this crap???? "educate our minds and liberalize them and broaden them."Are you kidding me??

One alternative perspective is that Stone is trying to look a bit beyond the genocidal madman that Hitler was. Ask nearly anyone to summarize Adolf Hitler in a short paragraph, and you're going to get a paragraph that basically sumarizes him as a genocidal madman. While that was certainly his defining characteristic, most people will refuse to look any further because society today tells them it's "wrong."
However, Hitler was also a brilliant leader and incredibly charasmatic - you have to be to lead an army to commit such terrible atrocities. These charcteristics make him interesting, and looking at him from this angle is thought provoking. From an American Conservative perspective, one thing that is especially noteworthy of Hitler is how he used a combination of legislative and executive power to stomp out his opposition and take tyrannical control of Germany. Many conservatives would argue that this type of thing is already starting to happen in the US... which may just give some relevance to studying him. My point is that looking beyond the labels that we all give him, he makes for an interesting subject of study. Lest we forget that studying someone or something - and looking beyond our ingrained notions - does not mean we admire it or approve of it.
Most modern religions teach that in order to avoid the devil, you have to understand him and what he is capable of. This goes beyond looking for a hoofed red dude with a trident and a pointy beard.
I want to make completely clear that as far as I'm concerned, Hitler was a monster. If you look back at history's most brilliant leaders, many of them were monsters, lunatics, psychotics, bigoted, etc etc. Much can be learned by studying historical leaders - from all angles.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by SLF125
http:///forum/post/3209368
While I do think Hitler is someone to be despised. Stone has point, he was someone that could be assassinated, Grhongring(spelling?) his second in command and Himmler were worse. Assassinating him would have done nothing.
It goes beyond that .Stone is trying to vilify America ....
"We want to move beyond opinions ... Go into the funding of the Nazi party. How many American corporations were involved, from GM through IBM. Hitler is just a man who could have easily been assassinated."
Sure he could of ,but no matter whos shoes you walked in
he wasnt anything less than a mass murdering monster.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/3209454
It goes beyond that .Stone is trying to vilify America ....
"We want to move beyond opinions ... Go into the funding of the Nazi party. How many American corporations were involved, from GM through IBM. Hitler is just a man who could have easily been assassinated."
Sure he could of ,but no matter whos shoes you walked in
he wasnt anything less than a mass murdering monster.
Again, if people look at it as a complete view of the individuals rather than a attempt to re write history what's the big deal. I actually think it is quite timely to look at why and how Hitler came into power in Germany and why he was so popular, VERY TIMELY.....

 

[stdreb27]

Somehow I'm sensing there will be another typical liberal argument, that it is all America's fault.
There is some interesting room for debate on why we overlooked stalin but fought hitler. Both were doing basically the same thing.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3209648
Somehow I'm sensing there will be another typical liberal argument, that it is all America's fault.
There is some interesting room for debate on why we overlooked stalin but fought hitler. Both were doing basically the same thing.
It is always good to know how tyrants were able to gain enough popularity in the beginning that lead to the power that allowed them to evolve into the plague on humanity they became. If Stone looks into the early days of these individuals and how they used their popularity to drive changes in the system that allowed them to gain such absolute power it could be a good thing/.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3209663
It is always good to know how tyrants were able to gain enough popularity in the beginning that lead to the power that allowed them to evolve into the plague on humanity they became. If Stone looks into the early days of these individuals and how they used their popularity to drive changes in the system that allowed them to gain such absolute power it could be a good thing/.
I had wrote a response along these lines last night but I couldn't figure out how to write it without sounding like a Hitler admirer, which I'm NOT.
As you've hinted, Hitler rose to power along similar lines that power figures in the US are doing right now. Most notably, Hitler used a combination of leglislative and executive power to stomp out his opposition and take tyrannical control of the country. Veni, you've got another thread open right now talking about how you are sick of Obama leglislating from an executive post.
Am I trying to compare Obama to Hitler? Of course not. However, there are similarities in the way that the two rose to power. Some of history's most significant leaders were tyrannical, genocidal, lunatics, etc. If -to use Hitler as an example - all we remember Hitler as is the result (that being a genocidal, tyrannical madman), without bothering to understand the back story, such as how he got into the position to do what he did in the first place, how are we supposed to prevent the mistakes of the past?

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3209692
I had wrote a response along these lines last night but I couldn't figure out how to write it without sounding like a Hitler admirer, which I'm NOT.
As you've hinted, Hitler rose to power along similar lines that power figures in the US are doing right now. Most notably, Hitler used a combination of leglislative and executive power to stomp out his opposition and take tyrannical control of the country. Veni, you've got another thread open right now talking about how you are sick of Obama leglislating from an executive post.
Am I trying to compare Obama to Hitler? Of course not. However, there are similarities in the way that the two rose to power. Some of history's most significant leaders were tyrannical, genocidal, lunatics, etc. If -to use Hitler as an example - all we remember Hitler as is the result (that being a genocidal, tyrannical madman), without bothering to understand the back story, such as how he got into the position to do what he did in the first place, how are we supposed to prevent the mistakes of the past?
I wouldnt disagree with you on your points , but .....
The more I read the words of Stone on this project of his ,I cant help but to notice the probable anti-America undertones related and a agenda to accompany the "documentary"
"Stone said that conservative pundits will dislike the show."
"Obviously, Rush Limbaugh is not going to like this history and, as usual, we're going to get those kind of ignorant attacks," said Stone, who also compared the experience of sympathizing with war criminals to making his "W" movie about former President George W. Bush. "I'm trying to understand somebody I thoroughly despised."
The project will also show lesser-known positive aspects of American history and unsung heroes. Stone eventually hopes to send "Secret History" to schools as a teaching curriculum.
"It would be a very different counterweight to what they're learning," Stone said. "Nobody is going to force it down anybody's throat."
And maybe some one could explain to me on how you would "send "Secret History" to schools as a teaching curriculum." yet
"Nobody is going to force it down anybody's throat."
Just food for though.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3209692
I had wrote a response along these lines last night but I couldn't figure out how to write it without sounding like a Hitler admirer, which I'm NOT.
As you've hinted, Hitler rose to power along similar lines that power figures in the US are doing right now. Most notably, Hitler used a combination of leglislative and executive power to stomp out his opposition and take tyrannical control of the country. Veni, you've got another thread open right now talking about how you are sick of Obama leglislating from an executive post.
Am I trying to compare Obama to Hitler? Of course not. However, there are similarities in the way that the two rose to power. Some of history's most significant leaders were tyrannical, genocidal, lunatics, etc. If -to use Hitler as an example - all we remember Hitler as is the result (that being a genocidal, tyrannical madman), without bothering to understand the back story, such as how he got into the position to do what he did in the first place, how are we supposed to prevent the mistakes of the past?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/3209800
I wouldnt disagree with you on your points , but .....
The more I read the words of Stone on this project of his ,I cant help but to notice the probable anti-America undertones related and a agenda to accompany the "documentary"
"Stone said that conservative pundits will dislike the show."
"Obviously, Rush Limbaugh is not going to like this history and, as usual, we're going to get those kind of ignorant attacks," said Stone, who also compared the experience of sympathizing with war criminals to making his "W" movie about former President George W. Bush. "I'm trying to understand somebody I thoroughly despised."
The project will also show lesser-known positive aspects of American history and unsung heroes. Stone eventually hopes to send "Secret History" to schools as a teaching curriculum.
"It would be a very different counterweight to what they're learning," Stone said. "Nobody is going to force it down anybody's throat."
And maybe some one could explain to me on how you would "send "Secret History" to schools as a teaching curriculum." yet
"Nobody is going to force it down anybody's throat."
Just food for though.
You gotta understand they are just throwing that stuff out to hype the publicity for the movie. Yeah the guy is left wing but he does some provocative stuff unlike Mikey Mooreon