I'm new :) Starting new "kid's tank"

[costanza]

Hi,
I had a 55 gallon SWA for several years about 10 years ago. I had crushed coral over undergravel filters. Over the years I had a snowflake eel, a lionfish, a yellow tang, banded coral shrimp and some kind of shark (NO, not at the same time ). Fast forward to now: my 13 year old wanted a SWA so she saved some money from B-day's, etc. and we got her a 10 gallon tank setup. YES, I know it's risky to use such a small tank, but my wife didn't want to invest more in a bigger tank. Plus, she's only gonna have a couple of small fish. Anyway, we set it up like my old tank: powerhead on undergravel filter with a bed of approx. 1-2" of crushed coral. Now, I just found this message board and this is the first I've read about using sand instead of crushed coral. Do you still use an undergravel filter with sand? Second, can someone recommend some fish for me? I want a combination of a couple of small fish that are hardy and a couple of ground dwellers, like a shrimp and a crab. I want them to get along and SURVIVE!
thanks!

 

[aquaman]

Hello, Welcome to the board. First, I am glad to hear your daughter in interested in SWF, and this will be a good lesson in responsibility. Secondly, when you use deep sand bed (DSB) you do not want an under gravel filter (long explanation). I suggest getting some live sand (LS) 20 lbs and some Live rock (LR) at a local fish store (LFS). Buying small amounts at a LFS will be more expensive than buying larger amounts on line, but you will not need much for a 10 gal, maybe 10 - 20 lbs depending on density. For a tank that size I would not add more than one (or 2 small fish), the rule of thumb is no more than 1 inch of fish to each 5 gal of salt water. At lease 2 things you need to keep in mind with the in a 10 gal w/ LR and LS you will not have 10 gal of water, and the inch rule applies to the full grown sizs of the fish, not its current size. As for other things, maybe 1 or 2 peppermint shrimp, 2 or 3 scarlet or blue hermits, and 1 or 2 turbo snails (some people will argue this is too mush, but I have keep this in a 5 gallon) The 3 most important rules in marine fish keeping is 1 Patience (LOTS OF IT) 2 Study (Find out the information before you get it, it will save you money and the lives of the animals) 3 and most importantly HAVE FUN with it! If you frequent this board and read the questions and answers, you will learn a lot, and pick up some magazines from time to time.
Enjoy, and again welcome to the board.

 

[costanza]

Thanks for the great advice! Can you point me to a post that explains what live sand is and how it works?

 

[aquaman]

Simply look to the side bar < and click on live sand.

 

[alohami]

There are so many, it would be impossible to link to just one or two. Do a search for Live Sand, or Deep Sand Beds (DSB). You will be busy for hours reading all of them! HTH - Good Luck!

 

[tuningvis]

https://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...ot_parent_id=8
i have 2 occ. clown and a blue yellow tail damsel.... they are doing fine in my set up, which is a 10... it's been about 7 months like this

 

[essop3]

I suggest this for stocking
2 false perc. clowns
1 clown goby
2 pepermint shrimp
4 cerith snails
2 scarlet hermits
good luck
for a good sand article do a search for kip4130 dsb. he wrote some pretty informing stuff.

 

[nanoman]

All good advice so far!
You should scope out the "nano reef" forum on this site, it may give you some good ideas.
Ive had a 10 gallon tank for just short of a year now, and have had very good luck with it. As with anything, you will suffer some casualtys, but all in all its been a wonderful learning experiance.
Best of luck

 

[costanza]

Thanks for all the informative responses! I'm still unsure about the sand though. Are some people here still using crushed coral?

 

[rayray2857]

Live Sand is sand that has beneficial bacteria in it, and is good to cycle a tank with. You won't find a lot of people using cc now days because it traps uneaten food and stuff in it. and will release big amounts of unwanted chemicals into the water.

 

[malounsbury]

Definition of LS:
Live sand, or LS is natural reef coral sand that is collected live from the ocean, or non-living coral sand that is cultured to make it live. What makes it live is the microscopic biological bacteria that grows on it, and the many tiny crustaceans and other micro and macro-organisms that reside in it.
Live sand can serve as the main base for biological filtration in a saltwater aquarium, while the organisms help consume organic matter in the sand bed. Some of the organisms provide a natural food source for many aquarium inhabitants as well.
Also, you'll want to stick with some sort of aragonite type of sand.

 

[costanza]

When did people start using this sand? I got out of the SWA hobby about 10 years ago and I think just about all the shops I ever visited only used CC. I've got to be honest with you all, I don't see myself tearing down this setup down, spending another $60 and starting over. This is just a 'kid's tank', after all . If I ever setup a large tank w/ expensive fish I'll definitely use it!

 

[snipe]

Even in a "kids" tank when the nitrate sky rockets and your fish die you will end up spending alot of money to replace them so it makes sense to get the sand before you start the tank.

 

[costanza]

Snipe, when did people start using this sand? What did people do before the sand? Are you saying you can't maintain a 10 gallon SWA w/ CC? Or are you saying it will be more difficult? I successfully maintained a 55 gallon SWA w/ CC for several years. I admit I've been away from this hobby for several years. Back then, CC was the only game in town (well, it's the only thing any of the shops I visited ever suggested). Have things changed THAT much? I'm just having a hard time believing that today it is either (a)use the sand or (b)don't even bother setting up a SWA. I consider myself an "elitest enthusiast" when it comes to home audio/video. If someone asked my opinion on a $99 all-in-one home theater in a box, I'd say "Don't bother!". When in actuality they might be perfectly happy with it. Is the sand sort of a "elitest SWA enthusiast" sort of thing? In other words, while CC will work, you know how superior the sand is and therefore you are sort of heavy handed when it comes to discouraging its use?

 

[new2u]

cc is out. Its near impossible nowdays. What I'd do is buy 15 pounds or rock and put regular old sand (your LFS should sell some just buy 10 pounds or the smallest bag they have. Go throught the whole "cycle"/"curing" process (if you don't know what either term is just search) and then your can put in a pair of clown fish. Let me tell you now, i have a 55 and think its difficult enough with a 10 gallon I cant even begin to think how hard it would be w/o a sump and auto-topoff system. Search for both if you dont know, agian. If I was you I'd check out www.melvesreef.com hes got an awesome autotopoff design and tells you what and how to make a sump. If you add a refugium to your tank/sump you could keep it to adding your top off (daily for such a small tank) and a gallon waterchange every other month. If I was you, I'd return the 10 gallon and get AT LEAST a 55 a 75 or 90 would be better it makes the world of saltwater 100 times better more fun and lets you keep lots of fish. Basically a 10 can hold 2 clowns tops while a 90 could hold a MAX of 40 inches of fish. Oh, and i wouldnt even think about an anenome in such a small tank. Just my 2 cents

 

[snipe]

No im not saying its impossible but when you buy mostly aragonite sand and seed it with alittle live sand it will be better than cc and it will cost about the same. If you want to go with by all means go with it but "if" anything happens just so you know I told you so. Dont get me wrong I hope nothing happens if you get it to go and live properly thats excellent it is just something most ppl dont want to bother with since there is a chance they will lose alot of money invested in fish.

 

[costanza]

Originally posted by Snipe
No im not saying its impossible but when you buy mostly aragonite sand and seed it with alittle live sand it will be better than cc and it will cost about the same.
It may cost about the same if someone hasn't already bought the CC and undergravel filter and installed it all as I have (I just discovered this site a few days ago and learned about the sand). For me, it would be another big investment in a "kid's tank". I'd still like to know WHEN the sand became THE thing to use vs. CC.
New2U, if you read this entire post you'll see that I'm not looking to put together some big elaborate expensive setup.

 

[minitrucke]

I have cc in my 29 and everything in my tank is thriving and my water is perfect except for the salt level, but thats another story. I, like many here, started a salt tank and was never shown anything else except for cc and i didnt know that there were sites like this available so I went with what I was told. CC does work you just have to maintain it a little more. Im setting up my 120 and a new 47 gallon tank now, am I going to use cc? Hell no, sand looks so much better so thats what Ill use and I hear its easier to take care of.
Just some of my experience for you guys

 

[snipe]

I dont knwo when it got popular that would be a banguy kinda question. Hey blemmy I know your reading post this guy your before and after pics. I will talk to blemmy if he dont chime in I will have him post his pics he knows first hand what can happen with crushed coral.

 

[costanza]

Originally posted by minitrucke
CC does work you just have to maintain it a little more.
That's what I figured. Thanks. Hopefully a combination of a couple of shrimp and hermit crabs can keep the CC a little cleaner than with a fish only tank
I agree sand looks MUCH more realistic and I trust it works better. I'll probably change about 1/2 gallon a of water a week, vaccuming the CC while in the process of removing the 1/2 gallon.