Im setting up a new tank!

[yae4volcom]

Im going to be starting a new tank sometime in august. I have been thinking about this for a while and Im pretty sure I want a 40 gallon acrylic reef tank with LR. In my situation cost is not really an issue but I dont want to spend tons and tons of money because Im still a beginner at this. Anyway I have some questions. Is 40 gallons a good size for a beginner? What kind of filter and skimmer and lights and other stuff would I need to make the tank nice? What kindof stuff should I put in it and how many? I wanted to get a stand with the tank so everything fits right and so I have a hood for the lighting . The tank would probably be in my room and I was wondering if it makes much noise..........If you guys have some links to websites that sell nice tanks that would be great! Thank-you again......

 

[yae4volcom]

P.S. When I said I wasnt willing to spend money I ment like on expensive corals and fishies.......I dont want to buy all those nice expensive hard to keep animals and have them die because of my beginnerness.

 

[bb7551]

Well, 40 gal is OK, the bigger the better. You will always want to go bigger. If you don't want to spend to much money, then I would suggest a freshwater tank. for a 40 gal you would need:
at least 40 lbs of LR whitch will run you 200 bucks or more.
a filter, whitch should run at least 30 dollars for a hang on back.
a skimmer whitch will cost you at least 35 for an OK one 100plus for a good one
the price of the tank, 50? dollars??
test kits, 25 bucks
fish, another at LEAST 30-60 dollars unless all damsels, whitch will run about 20 bucks.
water changes of about 10 gals, another 3-4 dollars a month if you buy salt in bulk,
replacement filter media, another 1-2 dollars a month
20 dollars a month for frozen, flake and live food.
total for start up and a year after that will be about 460 dollars plus you have hidden costs, like the quarintein tank and medication. Just a thought. John

 

[beaslbob]

40 G is fine. Of course you may want a larger tank later.
With limited resources remember this: A tank is a container of water suitable for fish. So some sand, a source of light is about all that is needed. Anything else is optional.
I recommend you use play sand from Home Depot or Lowes, and add all the macro algae you can get your hands on. Then wait three weeks for any fish borne parasites (ICH) to die off. Then add a plain old molly and not feed him for a week. then feed him a single flake per day for another week. Add another molly as his mate and continure feeding a single flake per day. After that feed normally and wait about three weeks. From then on start adding the saltwater only fish you want. Of course you could decorate with various rocks.
I also recommend you do not do routine water changes but rather replace water which evaporates.
If you follow these procedures you will have an excellent fish only tank that is easy to maintain for the least amount of expended resources.

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by beaslbob
Then add a plain old molly and not feed him for a week.
I of course could be missing many things from my freshwater days but arn't mollys really, really suseptable to fungus? If you were not fed for a week, wouldn't your immune system be kinda low? Molly's just seem strange. possible but strange.
Thomas

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by Thomas712
I of course could be missing many things from my freshwater days but arn't mollys really, really suseptable to fungus? If you were not fed for a week, wouldn't your immune system be kinda low? Molly's just seem strange. possible but strange.
Thomas
You are absolutely correct. When i raised albino sailfin mollies in a freshwater tank, they developed a white cotton type fungus. When I added some salt, the fungus fell off in about 3-4 hours and remained off. In saltwater, I have never had fungus on any mollies.
They will not be fed for a week but will eat things like algae and generally clean up the tank. Additionally, there is a very good possibility that they would not eat for a couple of days while they adjust to the new tank. the idea is to keep the bioload light and allow bacterial to build up to handle the bioload.
Not only is it possible but mollies are extremley hardy (especially in the saltwater environment). They survive about anything except high levels of ammonia.

 

[wamp]

Bob,
Your bacteria level is directly proportional to the waste... So, if you wer not too feed the waste level would not increas and in turn your bacteria would starve..
Perhaps a better solution would be to use a molly and feed him so as to produce waste starting the nitrogen cycle and doing small water changes during the cycle to keep your ammonia in check..
If you did not want to do water changes, I would not use live stock to cycle the tank. A dead shrimp or really anything that will decompose into ammina will work.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by wamp
Bob,
Your bacteria level is directly proportional to the waste... So, if you wer not too feed the waste level would not increas and in turn your bacteria would starve..
Perhaps a better solution would be to use a molly and feed him so as to produce waste starting the nitrogen cycle and doing small water changes during the cycle to keep your ammonia in check..
If you did not want to do water changes, I would not use live stock to cycle the tank. A dead shrimp or really anything that will decompose into ammina will work.
This does not agree with my experience. NitrItes refused to drop until I stopped feeding. Without adding food, the fish are still producing urea, slime, carbon dioxide and other water products. And again, the fish will feed on algae and whatever else is available. Plus if the fish is stressed by the new tank they will ignore food for some period of time. Therefore any food will rot in the tank.
A dead shrimp does not provide the same waste products and does not provide a constant bioload. that can lead to cloudy water as excess bacteria die off.

 

[reefnut]

A dead shrimp will works just fine... IMO starving fish is cruel and unnecessary.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by ReefNut
A dead shrimp will works just fine... IMO starving fish is cruel and unnecessary.
Killing shrimp is cruel and unecessary
One of the best things about standard aquarium practices is there are so many standard practices to choose from. In the wild fish routinely go through periods where there is very little food available. Back in the 70's I (once) used food to cycle a tank, After a week I had the ulgiest white cloudy mess immaginable. Had to filter it out with carbon or water polisher cartridages. Later when I added a neon gobie (10g tank), nitrItes pegged the test after two days and stayed maxed out for two weeks. When I stopped feeding, the nitrItes returned to 0.0 after 3 days.
Last year, when I starting up my new 55g, after 3 weeks, I added 5 mollies. NitrItes pegged in two days and the returned to 0.0 at about day 4. I then started light feeding and the nitrItes remained at 0.0. During the whole process, the mollies were activately scavenging for food, cleaning rocks, eating algae, breathing normally, having ---, and one even had 5-10 babies. If that is stressed out, then I hope all my fish are so stressed.

 

[yae4volcom]

Thanx but first I need all the equipment before worrying about the cycling. I mean its good info and all but still its overwhelming when Im trying to find out the right nitrate level when I still need to know what kind of filter I need. Do you guys have any suggestions on where I could buy a tank online or what kind of filteration and lighting and other stuff I need. I really have no idea and could use some help Please all you aquarium experts out there heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp

 

[reefnut]

Sorry , kinda got sidetracked .
The first thing that you need to decide is what you are going to keep... Fish Only, Corals, or a combination... If you want corals... coral types will affect your lighting. The general setup FO, Reef Tank or FOWLR will affect you equipment needs.
edit... I would purchase the aquarium local and purchase everything else on-line. It is hard and expensive to ship glass aquariums.

 

[yae4volcom]

Thanks.......Anyway well I want to start with some Live rock and some fish but I want to have enough light so I can add corals and things when my tank is established enough

 

[reefnut]

Well as a basic...
IMO, you would be better off with a 55g tank over a 40g unless you get the 40g long. Main reason is the standard 55 is 48" long... which is a nice size for VHO lighting. VHOs do come in 24" - 36" & 48" though.
For soft corals and some LPS corals about 4-6 watts per-gallon of VHO lighting will work nicely.
For SPS corals I would suggest Metal Halides.
As far as filtration... I have no bio-filtration on my tank. With plenty of LR additional Bio-filters are not required.
I would recommend a sump. A sump is useful for oxygen exchange, it gives you a place to put the skimmer, the heaters, ext.
The skimmer IMO is one of the most important piece of equipment you can buy. A good skimmer is worth the money.

 

[reefnut]

Couple more things... I would make sure to get a canopy with the tank instead of those cheap plastic covers that usually comes with a tank. A canopy will give you room for the lighting...
About the noise... Some tanks are noisier than others depending on the set up. I think it would be nice to fall asleep to the sounds of water but that's just me .
A Refugium is also very beneficial in a reef tank but take one thing at a time .

 

[wamp]

bob,
A constant Bio-Load is not needed.. You just have to have waste to start the nitrogen cycle. Since is is directly proportional to waste, little waste=Little Arobic bacteria.
If I were to start a tank, add a fish, not feed, the waste it produces will be very little. Since food is also broken down by bacteria in the tank it is a part of the cycle. A cycle continues throught the life of a tank. It never stops. If you were have a tank with 10 fish and decreased the load in half, you would also decrease the bacteria in half.
So, when starting a tank, which I agree with you here, you should do it slowly and add livestock slowly. But to add a fish in there for the sole purpose to starve to force him to eat algea which usually does not come in for 2 weeks or so is well.... Strange to me.. There are better ways to start a tnak. Not saying my way is better but IME with tanks, it is better to:
1. Start with a small bio-load and bring it up slowly
2. Do partial water changes to replinish trace elements and to contol the ammonial and nitrite levels and keep them at a safe level for the rock creatures
3. Do not overstock the tank
4. Keep monthly maintance schedules.
P.S. If your nitrites never drop without stoping the feedings, your tank has not completed the nitrogen cycle. You should be able to feed the tank and not see any diffrence in the readings before you start adding more fish...

 

[reefnut]

One more things to consider .
If you do in-fact decide to have a sump... Buy a tank that is pre-drilled with the overflows already installed (reef ready as they are sometimes called). They are a little more expensive but well worth it.

 

[wamp]

Reefnut has a VERY GOOD Suggestion with that one!! You'll thank him for it later!

 

[aileena]

I second the 55g tank suggestion if it is within your means...I started with a 29g and although it was l lot of fun, it was harder since the less water the more susceptable to fluctuations like salinity and other essential elements...bigger than allows for a little bigger margin of error....all in all 55 is great in my opinion..I have a 60g now and it seems like a ocean to me...the ideal size, as previously noted, is 48" long...the others are up to you...you can get 55, 60, 75, or a 90g tank...
Whatever tank you get I would certainly get it with a wood stand and wood canopy. Preferably you want a canopy that has some space for air flow since you'll need it to cool down those lights....make sure you get a color wood that you like...once Its set up its twice as much work taking it down.
Next you need to get pumps to move and circulate the water around...for a 55g 2 maxijet 900's would probably do the trick...
Also use sand on the bottom for a substrate, not crushed coral...you should have about 3" sand bed, some say the more the better, but I don't want a beachhead if ya know what I mean. Use southdown, oldcastle, or live sand which is more expensive...the southdown or old castle you can find at home depot, Lowes, or some other place...100lbs for a 55g is good
You need a heater set to about 78 degrees...and a hydrometer to check the salt content of the water. It sould be around 1.024.
When setting up the tank put in the sand first, then put garbage bags on top to stop a dust cloud...pour in your fresh water, not tap water though, use Reverse Osmosis water of distilled water since tap water has lots of impurities...you can get the stuff at walmart or some gorcery store cheap...then add your salt...not table salt...but rather the stuff from the pet store...
Toss in the heater, pumps/powerheads and your on the road...
Get your 1lbs per gallon of Live Rock, maybe more...you also will need to buy a good protein skimmer...thats important...to start out get a hang on the back one like a remora...
you will need test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and kh. These all need to be tested for.
As for lighting...??? well that a long story...depends what you want...I'll let someone else do that...
cycling will take about 3 weeks with the 1 lbs per gallon of LR and maybe a little live sand...someone will also explain the cycle too I am sure
GOOD LUCK

 

[bigjohn]

if what you say is true and cost is not really an issue, then there is NO way i would only buy a 40g tank! After only a few months you will want a bigger one, I gaurantee it! Just because you have a bigger tank doesn't mean you have to spend more money on "expensive" fish or "expensive" corals. Remember, this hobby is a longevity issue and you slowly add to your tank as money allows. If cost of a tank and the upkeep of it is not an issue - then i strongly suggest purchasing the biggest you can afford. Its better to spend more money on your tank initally and then wait several months to save more money before you worry about filters, salt, live rock...etc. Remember, if you are going to do this hobby right, your in this for the long haul, don't spare any expense on tank size if at all possible.