In need of serious help!

spanko

Active Member
Please don't get me wrong. Chemi Clean as a product may do everything it claims in it's ads, I have not the experience with it to doubt or verify the claims. All I am saying is that the nutrients in the form of nitrates and or ammonia are accumulating in the spots where the cyano is present, and until the cause of this accumulation is addressed IMO you may need to use this product more than once to keep your tank the way you want it. Band aid was probably the wrong term, could not think of another to use. but root cause is nutrient accumulation and that is what must be addressed. An effort with both the chemical and mechanics of the problem will help to eradicate it permanently.
Good luck with this. There are many success stories on the boards with people using both chemical and non-chemical solutions to this. Keep us posted on your results please.
 

b_clark711

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2739193
Please don't get me wrong. Chemi Clean as a product may do everything it claims in it's ads, I have not the experience with it to doubt or verify the claims. All I am saying is that the nutrients in the form of nitrates and or ammonia are accumulating in the spots where the cyano is present, and until the cause of this accumulation is addressed IMO you may need to use this product more than once to keep your tank the way you want it. Band aid was probably the wrong term, could not think of another to use. but root cause is nutrient accumulation and that is what must be addressed. An effort with both the chemical and mechanics of the problem will help to eradicate it permanently.
Good luck with this. There are many success stories on the boards with people using both chemical and non-chemical solutions to this. Keep us posted on your results please.

No doubt! I totally understand, and that's part of what this Chemi clean does, is actually break down the excess nutrients for removal. I manually did this by doing water changes and siphoning from different spots in the tank, but to no avail. I actually did this on 3 different occasions, 20% water changes, and still couldn't rid the tank of the "excess nutrients". I have adjusted flow to make sure that all parts of my tank are having movement, and to be honest, right in the path of one of my Koralias there is a huge bloom of this cyano, and it's directly in the path of flow so I have no clue as to how it set up shop there, but it did! There are some underlying issues because I have excellent water movement, but I have cut back tremendously on the feedings of both my fish & coral and that has single handedly been the most successful thing. The water changes didn't work except temporarily so this is why I am trying this chemi clean. To be honest, I feel like the water changes were just a band aid fix because I have done 20% water changes on 3 different occasions and still have this cyano. I totally understand where you are coming from and I have read numerous things in regards to how to rid your tank of cyano, most of which are solved by staying on a strict water change schedule, but that's due to excess nutrients, and although the excess nutrients play a role in my cyano bloom, I feel like there is something else that I can't put my hand on, but is causing this spastic outbreak. As I said, if it were only a nutrient issue, that would have been fixed with my water changes but it only masked the problem and bought me a few days in between each water change, but it soon came back each time. I have tested & tested my water and everything is perfect, my filtration is definitely excellent and water movement is great. Hopefully this stuff works well, and I hope I don't continue to have to use this, but I will say, adding this once a month would be a small price to pay to be cyano free! The only thing I have to do is dose, remove my carbon & add the aerator! Simple really! LOL I will definitely keep you updated! I have taken everyone's suggestions and tried them, some even before I posted this, so it's highly appreciated and I do appreciate us being able to disagree like normal adults, many times people get waaaaay out of hand on these things, and it's strictly just opinions and everyone is entitled to them! LOL Thank again!
 

b_clark711

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2740438
And do keep up with this thread to let us know your results please!
No worries! We are officially 24 hours into the dosing schedule. The chemi clean is supposed to do it's thing for 48 hours and I have to say that even after 24 hours I could tell a HUGE difference. I officially SWEAR by this stuff now! As I mentioned we are only 24 hours into the dosing schedule and I can tell a HUGE difference! After 48 hours I am sure it will all be gone! This stuff is the SH*T!
 

fattony

Member
Originally Posted by B_Clark711
http:///forum/post/2739184
I have to disagree with you on this one. For the previous month I have done water change after water change, pulling nutrients out, spent HOURS pulling & blowing cyano off of my rock & sand bed, and to no avail. When I posted on here, it was literally my last resort. Everything, with the exception of the Boyd's Chemi clean, I had previously tried, for over a month, and I keep getting massive blooms, which tells me it's more than just nutrients. This Chemi clean breaks down sludge & sediment so that it's a non-issue and removable by your filter, and it does the same for red slime (cyano), bubble, blue/green algae etc. To me, breaking it down for filter removal is NOT a band aid approach, in fact, imo, it's quite the opposite! Don't take my disagreement as harsh or ungrateful. I really appreciate everything everyone has suggested, and please keep them coming. I am just the type that if I don't agree with something, I voice it, and it's not in a threatening way and if it is I apologize because that's not the case. Just stating how I feel about it!
The problem isn't nutrients in the water column. It's nutrients in the Sandbed. No matter how many water changes you do, you will not rid the levels in the sandbed until you manually extract something that is feeding off of them (ie Cyano.) I had the same battle for months in my tank. waterchanges and manually siphoning off the bacteria worked. it just takes a very long time to accomplish. Chemi-clean is only a treatment for the result and not a treatment for the problem. Its kinda like going to the doctor and getting treated for a massive headache, but what you really have is a fractured skull..and the doctor only treats you for the headache. Sure the headache may go away, but the cause of the problem is still there. Trust me, you will have a return of the Cyano, keep up on your waterchanges and get a good sandsifter and increase flow across the sandbed to keep detritus suspended. Cyano and Algaes all thrive off of one substance..Phosphates... you must get your Phosphate level down in your tank to be able to free yourself from these issues. Just a coupe q's to help find the cause. How much and how often are you feeding? Are you using high quality make-up water such as good RODI or Distilled? You aren't using pellet or flake food are you? Reduce your feedings, use only very good quality make-up water and don't use pellet or flake foods.. they are loaded with phosphates. All the info you are getting is only meant to try to help you, no need to be defensive about it. You asked for help and that is what you are getting. I hope you can resolve these problems so your tank will be free from other outbreaks in the future. HTH
Tony
 

b_clark711

Member
Originally Posted by FatTony
http:///forum/post/2741800
The problem isn't nutrients in the water column. It's nutrients in the Sandbed. No matter how many water changes you do, you will not rid the levels in the sandbed until you manually extract something that is feeding off of them (ie Cyano.) I had the same battle for months in my tank. waterchanges and manually siphoning off the bacteria worked. it just takes a very long time to accomplish. Chemi-clean is only a treatment for the result and not a treatment for the problem. Its kinda like going to the doctor and getting treated for a massive headache, but what you really have is a fractured skull..and the doctor only treats you for the headache. Sure the headache may go away, but the cause of the problem is still there. Trust me, you will have a return of the Cyano, keep up on your waterchanges and get a good sandsifter and increase flow across the sandbed to keep detritus suspended. Cyano and Algaes all thrive off of one substance..Phosphates... you must get your Phosphate level down in your tank to be able to free yourself from these issues. Just a coupe q's to help find the cause. How much and how often are you feeding? Are you using high quality make-up water such as good RODI or Distilled? You aren't using pellet or flake food are you? Reduce your feedings, use only very good quality make-up water and don't use pellet or flake foods.. they are loaded with phosphates. All the info you are getting is only meant to try to help you, no need to be defensive about it. You asked for help and that is what you are getting. I hope you can resolve these problems so your tank will be free from other outbreaks in the future. HTH
Tony
First off, nobody is getting defensive, we are having a normal adult conversation, and we happen to disagree. I don't know what your deal is, or who you think is getting defensive, but you are sorely misinformed. Just like you think it's a mask for the problem, I think it's a fix. It actually BREAKS DOWN PHOSPHATES & SLUDGE, not just kill cyano. If you haven't used this or read up on it, I wouldn't expect you to know this, but that's exactly what it does. I DO have a sand sifter, a yellow head sleeper goby, I feed krill, brine & supplements for my coral, and my water changes, which are done weekly are done with distilled water. I am very aware that what is being said is meant to help, and Captain Obvious, you are right, I did ask for it, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that is said, and I voice that, doesn't mean I am defensive or that I don't appreciate everyone's suggestions, it just means that I don't agree. I have tried the water changes & I have already reduced my feedings. This chemi clean is working wonders and I feel like it's not just a mask thing, but that's my opinion which I am entitled to. I have said it before but I will say it again, I really appreciate everyone's comments on here, whether I agree with them or not. I appreciate you guys taking time out of your day to share your thoughts, experiences & ideas. Thanks a bunch!
 

spanko

Active Member
Hey B-Clark, sounds like you are getting the bloom itself under control with the Chemi Clean.
This will be my last stab at tying to explain myself and I think what FatTony might be getting at and then I'll leave it alone.
Your assessment of what the chemical is doing in regards to removing - dissolving- or otherwise getting rid of the nutrients causing the bloom we will say is correct from your standpoint and the manufacturers advertisement.
What I think Tony and I are saying is while it is working to get rid of the problem, the real problem is how did the nutrient collect there in the first place? This is what we believe has to be addressed to permanently correct the situation. Whether it be flow related - like this is what we'll term a dead spot or a spot where the flow slows enough to allow suspended material to deposit - or maybe a place where a creature originally died - or whatever it is in your interest and in the interest of future potential blooms to really take a look at that spot and make sure it does not continue to happen. If it does you will undoubtedly have the need to continue to use the product.
You may have already done this but I post it for you if you have not and for others that may be having the same problem.
Great discussion to have bud because you and I are not the only ones reading here, but there are many others looking for long term solutions to their problems. Thanx for staying on track with me through it.
 

fattony

Member
Well.. hope it works out for you B Clark. Spanko is on the same page as I am , which comes from being a veteran reefer. Patience is the key, and quick fixes are all too commonly wanted. Eventually you will see what we have been discussing here in this thread.
 

b_clark711

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2743622
Hey B-Clark, sounds like you are getting the bloom itself under control with the Chemi Clean.
This will be my last stab at tying to explain myself and I think what FatTony might be getting at and then I'll leave it alone.
Your assessment of what the chemical is doing in regards to removing - dissolving- or otherwise getting rid of the nutrients causing the bloom we will say is correct from your standpoint and the manufacturers advertisement.
What I think Tony and I are saying is while it is working to get rid of the problem, the real problem is how did the nutrient collect there in the first place? This is what we believe has to be addressed to permanently correct the situation. Whether it be flow related - like this is what we'll term a dead spot or a spot where the flow slows enough to allow suspended material to deposit - or maybe a place where a creature originally died - or whatever it is in your interest and in the interest of future potential blooms to really take a look at that spot and make sure it does not continue to happen. If it does you will undoubtedly have the need to continue to use the product.
You may have already done this but I post it for you if you have not and for others that may be having the same problem.
Great discussion to have bud because you and I are not the only ones reading here, but there are many others looking for long term solutions to their problems. Thanx for staying on track with me through it.

No worries dude! If I were just having a bloom in one spot, I would definitely say it was water movement, but I have loads of water movement and this stuff was everywhere, even in the direct path of one of my Koralia, so I have narrowed the problem down to overfeeding my coral, or at least over supplementing. I was dosing calcium, strontium, iodine, Marine snow & Fuel. Of course not at the same times, but was dosing it waaaaaay to often, and that's why I have a massive amount of nutrients in my tank. I did it the old fashion way, with water changes every week (which is what I had been doing for years, but this time on a much larger scale to rid my tank of those excess nutrients) cleaning & siphoning the cyano out etc. It just didn't do the trick, so I resulted to this, and had I not addressed the original problem of excess nutrients I would have totally agreed with you guys that the bloom would come back, but I just can't. I have my "problem" under control and I would be really surprised if it returns, but I knew it was going to return the last time I cleaned & siphoned for HOURS! LOL I just had that feeling and low & behold, 3 days later, BAM, it was back, not as

[hr]
initially, but after 3 more days it was covered again! I totally understand where you guys are coming from, I just want you guys to see where I am coming from. I have been in the saltwater hobby since 1999-2000 and I have read a lot about cyano and wanted to get everybody's take on it, which is what I did and I appreciated that, I never wanted to sound ungrateful because that's not the case at all, but if something is said that I don't agree with, we talk about it & try to sort it out! The saltwater hobby has changed drastically in the recent years as far as filtration, lighting even stock and the old school way isn't always the only way to achieve your goal, just like this instance. Who knows, you guys may be right, it may return, I think it won't since I addressed the original problem which was excess nutrients and all I am saying is that as long as you have addressed your nutrient problem and have it under control, Chemi clean is the BEST way to go when it comes to getting this cyano out of your tank. If you want to spend hours blowing this stuff off of rocks, sandbed etc. and siphoning, by all means go right ahead, but even then, if you haven't addressed your problem then it's likely to return whether you used chemi clean or the old fashioned way. In one of my first posts I explained that my problem was dosing my coral waaaaay to much and that's the root of the problem, Boyd's Chemi clean is what helped me rid my tank of the outbreak so that I could "start fresh" by killing all of the bacteria, because that's what cyano is, instead of blowing & siphoning it literally ate it away and the amount of cleaning & siphoning I had to do after chemi clean paled in comparison when it comes to how much cleaning & siphoning I had to do before chemi clean, not to mention it returned, and I had addressed the problem of dosing to much of my supplements etc. I am more than grateful to all of you who have posted on here with your suggestions, comments etc. This is how things get solved! A zillion heads are waaaaaaaay better than one! LOL
 

b_clark711

Member
Originally Posted by FatTony
http:///forum/post/2744025
Well.. hope it works out for you B Clark. Spanko is on the same page as I am , which comes from being a veteran reefer. Patience is the key, and quick fixes are all too commonly wanted. Eventually you will see what we have been discussing here in this thread.
FT, I already know what you are talking about, as I myself am a veteran reefer (since 1999) and have successfully had a saltwater tank, and NEVER had a cyano outbreak until recently so I was fairly new to this outbreak, but after doing loads & loads of research realized that this isn't just a quick fix, because I had gotten to the root of the problem, excess nutrients, which I had gone over numerous times in previous posts. What this does is basically aid you in the cleaning of this cyano by breaking it down in a much more removable form be it by siphoning, filter removal etc. I am no dummy and I am open to all things. Just like with the water changes & cleaning, I did that before I even posted on here, and that had worked for my friends in the past but it wasn't working for me. This Boyd's chemi clean is a great product and you are right, had I not examined the exact cause of the problem, it probably would grow back, although the guy who suggested it has been outbreak free for 4 months, which is amazing to me, but I did realize the problem and the chemi clean is helping me to correct it by breaking down the sludge, excess nutrients I have in their now, and if I were to keep overfeeding there is no doubt that I would soon have another outbreak, but as I stated earlier, it does exactly what it says it will do, but the old school way isn't always right, and it's not always the only way either. There are always exceptions to the rules, just like you aren't supposed to put different variations of clowns together, well I have 4 different types of clowns in my tank. One of the first pics of my tank that I posted (my old 40 gallon tank) I was getting comments left & right that my tank was "overstocked"! Maybe by old school measures but in this day with numerous filtration modules you can really keep as many fish as you want, as far as waste goes, because the new filters, foam fractioners etc. make that possible. There have been a lot of advances in the hobby in the recent years, and don't get me wrong, most of my advice, since I set up my first saltwater aquarium in 1999 comes from a guy who has been in this hobby longer than most of us have been alive, and a lot of the times his "ways" work, but this time in particular he was very skeptical, as you guys were, but he witnessed it with his own eyes, and currently stocks it now at his LFS, and will use it in his tanks, if he ever has another cyano outbreak! The deal with old school is that they are believers in if it's not broke, don't fix it, which works just about everytime, but when I am sitting here telling you that this product will save you loads of time when it comes to cleaning & siphoning, most are skeptical, but I know, and I am trying to tell you guys, this stuff really works, getting rid of the cyano, but as reiterated a thousand times, if you don't address the initial cause, you will be wasting time & money regardless of what method you choose, the old school clean & siphon, or the new school, add a couple of measuring cups (it comes with it) and wait 48 hours! Either way, I am thankful for your comments, whether or not I agree or disagree and this is how adults handle this situations. No personal shots, no tempers flaring, just some good old fashioned, disagreements! LOL Thanks again guys for all your help & comments, everybody!
 

mawj

New Member
I am far from experienced in this hobby, but i agree, sometimes you have to use chemicals to help solve a problem.I bought one live rock from a new LFS i ran across on a trip and after i put it in my tank this red mess showed up. It was only on this one rock. I cleaned it off at least 30 times because i didn't want it to spread every where. I even put it in a seperate tank for about a month and it kept comming back. I used this stuff and i havent seen any more of the red crap. That was about three months ago. Good luck. I hope yours stays gone to.
 

fattony

Member
B Clark... I was not saying that Chemi Clean doesn't work, mostly that it wouldn't cure your problems without finding and curing the root cause to begin with. I know the stuff works to get rid of active Cyano, but if you haven't eliminated the cause then it's a fruitless messure. Now that I have a more complete bio on what was causing your issue to begin with from the last couple posts, I can safely say that it was over feeding that caused the outbreak. You will probably go through a couple cycles of outbreaks in the new year or so until the sandbed and rock have purged a good bit of their Phosphates. I am in the middle of another outbreak myself, but I mostly let the Cyano run it's course until it dies off, siphoning the sanbed about once a week to get rid of large clumps.. it will take a couple months of this, and I will be cyano free once again. Seeing that you are using Marine Snow, I highly recommend getting rid of it. That stuff is absolutely loaded with phosphates! What is your predominant coral selection in you tank, LPS, SPS, Softies? If it's SPS, no really need to feed the corals, unless you are carbon dosing (and that isn't feeding the corals, but the planctonic organisms instead, which in turn feeds the corals) If you have LPS/Softies, try cutting back feeding to every 3-4 days or even once a week...
 
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