Instant Invert Death

[adam2817]

Actually, the lights WERE on, so that could be an issue. As for the plactic, everything came from the LFS. I have tested my water at home and at the LFS. Same results. As for copper........none, I tested that 2x. I posted priorr to this my Alk measured 7 Ml or 350 ppm. Is that ok or too high? I am not adding anything to the tank for a while. No more TEST snails. I have to get this situation straightened out first. I appreciate all the info thus far and hope for more as this saga continues. (no problem with the razzing, we have to laugh or we'd go CRAZY!)

 

[hermitkrab]

I have the opposite problem adam. I cannot keep fish. All my inverts live. But my fish haven't lasted over 3 weeks yet. My tank is 40g with a refugium (about 5 gallons but I used to have a Bak-Pak 2 fish even died with it), a pengiun 280 bio-wheel with cell pore bio-media, and a AquaClear 70 power filter. I have 75 lbs. of live rock and 90 lbs. of live sand. In my fuge I have 16 lbs. of live sand and about 16 lbs. of live rock. I also have shrooms, zoos, and xenia in my fuge. I will have plants in it by Saturday. My xenia has been in there since friday and is growing very quickly and happily it seems. I didn't drip accimilate any of my shrimp and they all lived (1 cleaner, 2 pepper, and 2 saron/monkey shrimp). I also have like 20 scarlets, 30 snails mixed (ceriths, nassarius, one conch, one mexicans turbo, and turbos). I have had two blue damsels die, two green chromis, and recently two false percula clowns. Although two of the six deaths involved powerhead accidents. What could be wrong? My levels are fine. My temp is usually 78 to 80 but never higher or lower than that. Also my salt level is usually 1.023-1.025 and it never gets lower or higher than that. I used distilled water to start my tank and still use it for water changes and top offs. I do 6 gallon water chnages every other week. So what could it be?
P.S.
The fish seemed to become weak. They would in their late days swim very close to the sand bed and sometimes get pulled up against my power heads.

 

[mpls man]

ADAM 2817 , i would say to do a 20-30 gallon water change with salt water over a period of a week, i had a similar problem and did that with mine and it seemed to cure what ever was in my tank, i then put a green chromis damsel in after 2 weeks of doing the water change, and is still living and doing well, also when i acclimate i do the drip method for 2-3 hours for everything, and have never had a problem, the longer the better.

 

[adam2817]

I did a water change this morning. Actually, it was about 12-13 gals. I siphoned a bit too much, I didn't want to do that much. I am going to do 10% water changes every week for the next 4. This change was with reg tap water, but the next will be with a new RO/DI unit. It just hasn't come yet. We'll see what happens from there. Thanks for the advice. I have also stopped adding anything to the tank. Fish, inverts or suppliments. we'll see what goes on now.

 

[ophiura]

What sort of pump do you have? You don't have any stainless steel hose clamps or anything?

 

[the claw]

DId I miss it, or did we ever get an answer back on the acclimation. The response that the acclimation isn't that big of a deal is WRONG. They were just lucky probably that their water wat close enough to the LFS water, that their critters made it. Shrimp will die almost instantly and so will snails if not acclimated properly, starfish usually disintergrate over a period of time. If the acclimation process was followed religiously, then heavy metals would be my next guess as well.

 

[adam2817]

No, no steel clamps or any metal in the system water at all. As far as Alkalinity, I know their is an issue, but I still need to know where it should be. It's at 7 right now(well, b4 the water change, not sure now) but, whats an accurate level for it?

 

[msd2]

quick question, in your first post you said the nitrites <10 and nitrates 0? did you reverse these by chance?

 

[ophiura]

Actually I do think we need more clarification here...
So the tank was running and things started to die (everything? Clarify...)
Then you took the tank down or ???
If restarted, was the LR dried or ???
If cycled, how?
The problem, IMO, with the acclimation is that everything died. I've seen plenty an LFS just toss snails, shrimp, etc in a tank with no acclimation except floating and most are OK. There are fatalities for sure (delicate seastars especially), but I expect a few individuals to survive. I am also concerned as this tank had problems with animals that had been in it, and then started to die, indicating that this person's acclimation procedure may not be totally to blame.

 

[g-dude]

Please stop using tap water. Go out and buy RO/DI water. Have you tryed testing your tap water? Did you let it sit for 24 hours before adding salt and mixing? Is your substrate new or old?

 

[adam2817]

OK, here's clarification. My original set-up with the Eheim system had a crash where everything started to die. My fish and inverts. I had 150 Lbs of Live rock. In November we decided that maybe the Ehiem 6650 had too much filtration possibly preventing GOOD bacteria from building up, so we switched to a BRAND NEW wet/dry and tank. I stress, ALL NEW. I did use the old rock though. put it in, cycled with the live rock about 2 weeks then added 6 percula clowns. Every one of the lived so I started adding inverts. Thats when none of them would live. I still have the clowns and the algae Blenny I put in but no inverts or corals would live. We tested everything and couldn't find anything so we thought maybe the live rock had died, since it was getting covered in red slime algae, and was contaminating everything so I took it all out and added 40 lbs of NEW LR. I didn't change the water though, just the rock.
And yes, I did mix up the Rites and RAtes (I always do)
My RO unit is in the mail. I did not let it sit for 24 hours B4 adding it to the tank. Whats the benefit to that?

 

[msd2]

Letting the water sit at least 24hrs allows it to stablize the ph. I prefer to let it sit a few days. The red slime u describe would tell me you have too little flow in the tank its cynobacteria if i recall correctly. Good flow will resolve this problem, I have x25 flow rate in my tank, meaning since my tank is 100 gallon every hour 2500 gallons are pushed around through powerheads, fuge, sump, scwd.
I am getting the impression your tank has gone through a lot of changes and hasnt had time time to catch up to all the changes. Smell the top of your tank if it smells fresh my guess is your rock isnt dead, it would be painfully clear with nasty odor.
So are you running a deep sand bed, is is crushed coral or agronite (sp?) sand? How deep is it exactly?
I also agree to stop using the tap water, if u need water in the meantime while waiting for your di unit buy the water from your lfs. You may very well be having issues in part with the city water. Remember that inverts are much more sensitive to certain chemicals than verts so even a small amount can be deadly. Doing additional water changes with the tap water isnt going to help any, so either wait for your di unit, or like I said get it from your lfs. I also would start doing (once you have the di water) 10% water changes every few days. 10% once a week will take too long to dillute out a hazard chem. if in fact you have it in the water column. I think further evidence for this is the amazingly quick death of the animals which would lead me to believe that its high in concentration.
Anything maybe we are missing? house sprayed lately for bugs? accidental contamination by someone? tank located by a laundry room, lol.
Finally what testing kit are u using?

 

[latino277]

just my .02... when you get your RODI unit... (not sure what size tank you have) Go to Home Depot and buy and brand new Garbage can... Plastic with NO scaring inside (Scaring or Scratchs can hold onto Chem.) fill it about 1/4 with RO water. use that to rinse the can. NOTE: do not us your tap water for this... I have a feeling that is part of the problem! then re-fill the can up again... All most to the top. add salt and a Powerhead and let it sit for about 2 days. try and get the PH and SG to match as close as possible. Take ALL animal out of the tank.... you can put them it a bowl or bucket (s). now your going to do a large water change with this new water. so... if you have a 25g G-can then your going to do a 25G water change. After the water change re-acclame all of the fish and add them back to the DT. I would try this 2x (only once a week). then see what happens. again just my .02 and what I would do.

 

[latino277]

Ooo. Wait about 1hr before starting the acclimation.... you want to make sure the water in the tank mixes well with the new WC water.

 

[mudplayerx]

I only float acclimate my critters for one hour, then let them loose. I have never used drip acclimation or floated more than an hour. I haven't had one fatality so far
The above has been done with:
Peppermint Shrimp
Camel Back Shrimp
Emerald Crabs
Mexican Turbo Snails
Hermit Crabs (blue, green, & scarlet)
Yellowtail Damselfish
Mandarin Dragonet
Galaxea Coral
Xenia Coral
Star Polyp Coral
Yellow Polyp Coral
Christmas Tree Rock
Sea Cucumber (detrivore)
Orange Sponge (dunno type)
Saron Shrimp
Yellow Gorgonian
Fungia
Clam (just bought today, don't remember species )
Giant Feather Duster
Condi Anemones

 

[adam2817]

Thanks for the great advice. I plan on doing another waterchange Saturda, as the Ro will be here friday evening. I have all intentions on getting a pail for the water, but you say to get the Ph and Sg even. Whats SG stand for? As far as water flow, what would you suggest for a 72 gal tank? Thanks again for the info. everything is starting to sound like it may work. Keep it coming. :cheer:

 

[latino277]

OK, SG = specific gravity = salt level
if it were me I would do a 25g water change 2x... one this Monday and then another next monday if you do this as directed.... you may not be able to do the WC until ~Mon or Tues of this week coming up. Friday you hook up your RO and start to clean the G-can. so your G-can wont be full until Sat. then you add your new salt to the G-can. you should let the new saltwater settle. DO NOT ADD 25G OF FRESH SALT WATER TO YOU TANK. that is too much unstable salt water for any tank. so if you let it sit until monday would be the earliest. Just put a small Maxi Jet PH into the G-can pointing down to mis the salt the settles on the bottom.
as for your the flow in your Display tank..... if it will be a reef you should have x20 the turn over... so you looking at ~ 1500 Gph.
I hope this is making sence????

 

[adam2817]

making perfect sense. keep it coming! Thanks

 

[latino277]

after the second large WC that should cut the contamication down to about 1/2. the only concern I have it that you LR & sand may have sucked up some of these Chem that are causing you problem... if that is the case, you you may have to start all over with new rock and sand.

 

[latino277]

... now that I think about it.... this should fix your Calc and akl problem too! :joy: :joy: