Interesting read of an interview with an Arab

darthtang aw

Active Member
6/02/07 a.m. FrontPageMag.com had an interesting article:
Last week, I had another conversation with an Israeli Arab construction boss by the unlikely name of Francis who was in charge of building a villa near our house in Herzelia. He told me that his family was Christian, and his name was given to him in honor of the Franciscan monks...
He went on to tell me...
“As a matter of fact, the whole Moslem world, not only the Arabs, simply couldn’t believe that the mighty Israeli Army that defeated the combined Arab forces in six days in 1967, and almost captured Cairo and Damascus in 1973, couldn’t defeat a small army of Hezbollah men. As usual the Moslems see things the way they want to see things. Most think that the present generation of Israelis have gone soft and can be defeated."
“The American bungling of the war in Iraq only added to their conviction that victory not only over Israel but also over the West is not only possible, but certain. The ramifications of these two bungling wars may bring an Islamic bloody Tsunami all over the West, not only in Israel. The sharks smell blood and these two wars gave them the green light to attack sooner than they had in mind. Your problem is that you are on the defensive and they have the option to choose the time and the places when and where to attack and there is nothing much you can do about it. When will you Westerners realize that half measures don’t work with people who are willing to die by the thousands for Allah to achieve their goal? In their eyes the Western World is simply an abomination on earth that has to be wiped out.”
He spoke quietly and I could just picture him in the school giving his students a lecture. I poured him another cup of coffee and encouraged him to continue.
“The Americans, the Europeans, and even you Israelis really don’t know what it is all about, do you? During the last generation hundreds of thousands of children have been taught all over the Moslem world in Madrass schools to become martyrs for Allah in order to kill the infidels. These youngsters not only are ready to do it, but are actually in the process of doing it. Bombs are going off all over the world killing and maiming thousands of people, not only on 9/11 in the US, in London Madrid and Bali, but in Africa, India, Bengladesh, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and many other places. The first signs of the Islamic Tsunami is already here, but the West doesn’t understand, or doesn’t want to understand what is coming."
“The Americans, instead of realizing that this is as bad as World War Two, or even worse, are going to pull out of Iraq, handing it over to Iran on a silver platter. Next may come the Saudis and the rest of the Gulf states. When dirty bombs go off all over Western towns, who is going to stop the Iranians?"
“Now is the time to stop them, not only because they are developing nuclear bombs, but because Iran has become the base for all Islamic terrorist. They supply, money, men, and weapons to Islamic terrorist around the world, quite often through their diplomatic mail. Billions of petro-dollars that are pouring into Iran are being funneled into terrorist organizations world-wide. They believe, and perhaps rightly so, that the West will do nothing to stop them in achieving their goals. Is history repeating itself? Are the Iranians making the same mistake that Hitler made when he attacked Poland? Is the situation similar?"...
Is there a way to avoid the “Armageddon”?
“I think there are two ways to avoid it. One can be a major war which the West can win..."...
“You said there are two ways to avoid Armageddon?” I remembered to ask him.
“Sure, all the West has to do is follow Putin’s ways. He assassinates his enemies without blinking an eye. Assassinate the four or five Mullahs who run the show, Ahmadinejad, and a few more Iranian fanatics, and the War can be avoided. It may be difficult to do, but not impossible. With today’s hi- tech technology I am sure that new weapons against individuals are being prepared right now. I think it would be a better way of handling the matter than an all out war against Islam.”
 

triga22

Active Member
This is what I dont get. Since they are bombing US,Europe,Africa,India,and all of these other places. Why dosent anyone help? If we had all of these people to go there it would be like billions to 1.. If everyone turned on them they would be scared out of there mind.
 

dapak83

Member
first and foremost... the isreli gentleman though a non muslim... sems to know the jist of things... i totally agree with the last part.. being a muslim... i can tell you for a fact that violance is not the way of islam.. its teaching peace and prosperity as a way of life....the extreamist who are responcible for all the deaths should def get punished and if the handfull of the mullahs go get caught there wont be any "terrorist" its amazing how the word terrorist is only affiliated to muslims now... what the guy who shot up virgina tech he wasnt muslim does that mean he wasn't a terrorist?.....i mean this is just coming from the top of my head... but extremist come in every way shpe and form.. please dont let the media convince u that a culture or religion in general is evil and after you. If you read the history and go through all the details not just what u see in american media.. you will realize just how the terrorist were form in the middle eastern states!!.. i can go on forever.. but i will just leave it at that...
 

rylan1

Active Member
This is a very interesting article, I totally agree with what was said. I could just see the Middle East and North Korea forming an alliance and beginning WWIII. We are living in very trying times and I agree if we do nothing that this will encourage these extremests. I also have heard that the Pres of Iran is merely a figurehead and not the real threat, there is a person (forget who) who runs the show. I believe we seriously mishandled Iraq and in many ways I feel we should get out, but than again I think when we leave that an intense civil war will begin and perhaps Iran will come in and begin an even worse crisis. So I'm not sure of the process we should take, but there needs to be new management and someone who can talk to other nations, gain their respect, and just simply get things done diplomatically.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
dapak83 I am curious...How do you believe the terrorists were formed in the middle eastern countries?
Everyone keeps saying stop listening to the media...yet every media outlet I tue into states he muslims of Islamic religion are generally peaceful people with the exception of the islamic exteremists.
The main problem I have with the Islamic religion is that if you are not a Muslim you are to either be killed or made into essentially a slave and recognize the islamic superiors as you superiors. This differs from every other religion to date...no other religion in their text states all non-believers should be killed or made into slaves.
 

happyvac

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
The main problem I have with the Islamic religion is that if you are not a Muslim you are to either be killed or made into essentially a slave and recognize the islamic superiors as you superiors. This differs from every other religion to date...no other religion in their text states all non-believers should be killed or made into slaves.
Wait, where is this stated? (I'm not trying to doubt you, but I've never read anything like that)
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
someone who can talk to other nations, gain their respect, and just simply get things done diplomatically.
This is easier said than done. How many times have we "talked" with the N. Koreans now? Clinton and Bush and Clinton was viewed as a great speaker and Diplomat yet nothing was truly accomplished.
 

dapak83

Member
all the points agreed with... i totally didnt like what saddam hussais was doing in iraq.. but what i belive is that it is totally up the country to get it self together.... through out the history of the worl... any week civilization was conquerd by the bigger more powerful one... that is just the way it is..... but i dont belive that we should go out of our way and try to change the world...because if it doesnt stop here.. it will never stop... there will always be another threat and this "war" will continue forever....soliving situation diplomatically you say, thats what the UN is for... when this war was started our policys were totally against the ones of the UN... there are alot of hidden agendas at work...
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by HappyVac
Wait, where is this stated? (I'm not trying to doubt you, but I've never read anything like that)

I study and read various religions I have a couple books on the Quran and the Quran itself. One of my books is a complete history of the Islamic religion. I have read it numerous times in all of these books. Give me some time and I will quote the passage as soon as I find it.
 

dapak83

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
dapak83 I am curious...How do you believe the terrorists were formed in the middle eastern countries?
Everyone keeps saying stop listening to the media...yet every media outlet I tue into states he muslims of Islamic religion are generally peaceful people with the exception of the islamic exteremists.
The main problem I have with the Islamic religion is that if you are not a Muslim you are to either be killed or made into essentially a slave and recognize the islamic superiors as you superiors. This differs from every other religion to date...no other religion in their text states all non-believers should be killed or made into slaves.
YOU can show me 1 place in the quran where it saiys anything like that!
In quran it is stated and we strongly belive that in essance Judism christianity and islam are the same religion....
what we belive is that islam came after the other to fix what the people changed about there religions... the quran is still as it was when the words of god came down and has not changed!......like i said there are some very ignorant people out there spreading false information!..
and "dapak83 I am curious...How do you believe the terrorists were formed in the middle eastern countries? "
the only thing i am gonna say about this is.. Research osama bin laden's history and when you will find the correct information you will get you answer
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Here is a few....
Sura (Chapter) 47, paragraph 4 and 5 are:
And when ye meet those who misbelieve - then striking off heads until ye have massacred them, and bind fast the bonds!
Then either a free grant (of liberty) or a ransom until the war shall have laid down its burdens. That! - but if God please He would conquer them - but (it is) that He may try some of you by the others. And those who are slain in God's cause, their works shall not go wrong; He will guide them and set right their mind; and will make them enter into Paradise which He has told them of.
“Fight against those to whom the scriptures are given, who believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day, who forbid not what Allah and his apostle have forbidden, and follow not the true faith, until they pay the tribute out of hand and are humbled.” Sura: 9:29 1
“O you who believe! Take not the Jew and the Christians as friends. They are friends to one another. Whoever of you befriends them is one of them. Allah does not guide the people who do evil.” Sura: 5:56 2
“Surely those who disbelieve in our signs-We shall –We shall certainly roast them at a Fire; as often as their skins are wholly burned. We shall give them in exchange other skins, that they may taste the chastisement…Sura, 55-60
· …It is not for the Prophet (Mohammad) and the believers to ask pardon for the idolaters, even though they are near kinsmen, after that it has become clear to them that they will be the inhabitants of Hell.” Sura IX 110-1
· “…Take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them , and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper except those that betake themselves to a people who are joined with you by a compact, or come to you with breasts constricted from fighting with you or fighting their people….If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them wherever you come on them; against them We have given you a clear authority.” Sura IV 90-95
“… Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, & perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; God is all-forgiving, All-compassionate. And if any of the idolaters seek of thee protection, grant him protection till he hears the words of God; then do thou convey him to his place of security- that, because they are people who do not know.” Sura IX 5-10
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by dapak83
the only thing i am gonna say about this is.. Research osama bin laden's history and when you will find the correct information you will get you answer

Osama was NOT the first Terrorist group formed or first Islamic Terrorist leader...If you are implying the U.S. helped create the terrorist mindset in the middle east you will have to explain to me the the Hijacking of planes in the the late 1970's and early 1980's and how we brought that about..
As to my quotes, please if I am wrong on them let me know how...I love information and new percepectives..
 

dapak83

Member
most definately... i am no scholor.. but what u just quoted was obviously translated.. but since u have the chapters and virsus on there i will def read up on it tonight and i will most definatley set it right.. and for my refrence.. can u please tell me out of which book did you get these qouts from?..... it was obviously a translation of the quran summerized by some one!
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by dapak83
most definately... i am no scholor.. but what u just quoted was obviously translated.. but since u have the chapters and virsus on there i will def read up on it tonight and i will most definatley set it right.. and for my refrence.. can u please tell me out of which book did you get these qouts from?..... it was obviously a translation of the quran summerized by some one!
My main reference is "The sword of the Prophet by by Srdja Trifkovic " It is a historical book on the creation and history of Islam and the Islamic interaction in the world throughout history. It is honestly my main reference for a lot of Islamic discussions. It is a good read and places into perspective the Crusades and Violence in the middle east. It chronicles Mohammeds life very well compared to other books and even has Psychological analysists on some action by individuals.
I will be honest though, I have never had the chance to sit down and discuss a lot of these passages with an actual Islamic follower. So I am looking forward to how you interpret those quotes.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Here is a few....
Sura (Chapter) 47, paragraph 4 and 5 are:
And when ye meet those who misbelieve - then striking off heads until ye have massacred them, and bind fast the bonds!
Then either a free grant (of liberty) or a ransom until the war shall have laid down its burdens. That! - but if God please He would conquer them - but (it is) that He may try some of you by the others. And those who are slain in God's cause, their works shall not go wrong; He will guide them and set right their mind; and will make them enter into Paradise which He has told them of.
“Fight against those to whom the scriptures are given, who believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day, who forbid not what Allah and his apostle have forbidden, and follow not the true faith, until they pay the tribute out of hand and are humbled.” Sura: 9:29 1
“O you who believe! Take not the Jew and the Christians as friends. They are friends to one another. Whoever of you befriends them is one of them. Allah does not guide the people who do evil.” Sura: 5:56 2
“Surely those who disbelieve in our signs-We shall –We shall certainly roast them at a Fire; as often as their skins are wholly burned. We shall give them in exchange other skins, that they may taste the chastisement…Sura, 55-60
· …It is not for the Prophet (Mohammad) and the believers to ask pardon for the idolaters, even though they are near kinsmen, after that it has become clear to them that they will be the inhabitants of Hell.” Sura IX 110-1
· “…Take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them , and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper except those that betake themselves to a people who are joined with you by a compact, or come to you with breasts constricted from fighting with you or fighting their people….If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them wherever you come on them; against them We have given you a clear authority.” Sura IV 90-95
“… Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, & perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; God is all-forgiving, All-compassionate. And if any of the idolaters seek of thee protection, grant him protection till he hears the words of God; then do thou convey him to his place of security- that, because they are people who do not know.” Sura IX 5-10
You will find much worse in the Old Testament...
Also, when you think of the fathers of modern terrorism who do you think of? For me, it's certainly not the Arab nations...
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
You will find much worse in the Old Testament...
Also, when you think of the fathers of modern terrorism who do you think of? For me, it's certainly not the Arab nations...
The problem with that is the old testament is erased and basically a history if you follow the teachings of Christianity. The New Testament has all the laws and rules and beliefs and the old testament is just a history. I do not believe from my understanding the Koran is written the same way. Now, if you can show me in the new testament where it states the same types of statements I will concede your point and view christianity as I currently view Islam.
I Can not say the same for Jewish religion, as this is one religion I have not delved into yet, so I can't defend nor oppose their views.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
You will find much worse in the Old Testament...
Also, when you think of the fathers of modern terrorism who do you think of? For me, it's certainly not the Arab nations...
Really, I think of the IRA and Islamic extremists as the first and foremost group that will specifically target civilian areas for destruction for a political point and senseless death...after that would be the Communist U.S.S.R.. Who comes to your mind? And please don't say the U.S.....when is the last time we targetted civilian building specifically with the goal of killing mass amounts of civilians.
I know where you are going...and there is a difference between Casualties of war and Civilian targeted Terrorist actions. If you can not see a difference we (YOu and I) should not discuss this. as I wilol get very heated about it coming from a Military family.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Really, I think of the IRA and Islamic extremists as the first and foremost group that will specifically target civilian areas for destruction for a political point and senseless death...after that would be the Communist U.S.S.R.. Who comes to your mind? And please don't say the U.S.....when is the last time we targetted civilian building specifically with the goal of killing mass amounts of civilians.
I know where you are going...and there is a difference between Casualties of war and Civilian targeted Terrorist actions. If you can not see a difference we (YOu and I) should not discuss this. as I wilol get very heated about it coming from a Military family.
I view the IRA as the fathers of modern terrorism and much of what the Islamics have done has been modeled of this. I think much of what the IRA did was valid and had a point with the exception of the civilian targets, which was disgusting. I'd never say the US; we have power and a military and have no need to engage in terrorism.
I also agree that there is a difference between civilian casualties in war and terrorism...in some cases terrorists deliberately target civilians for economic and social impact and for the most part in war it's an accident and was not intended. I do not believe our military targets civilians.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
I view the IRA as the fathers of modern terrorism and much of what the Islamics have done has been modeled of this. I think much of what the IRA did was valid and had a point with the exception of the civilian targets, which was disgusting. I'd never say the US; we have power and a military and have no need to engage in terrorism.
I also agree that there is a difference between civilian casualties in war and terrorism...in some cases terrorists deliberately target civilians for economic and social impact and for the most part in war it's an accident and was not intended. I do not believe our military targets civilians.
Then we agree and I apologize for my pressumption. I am glad it was not what I thought it would be. So many Today try to say the U.S. military is another terrorist organization with government backing and that irritates me to the point where I see red....
The thing with the IRA I noticed right off the back was the minute Bush said we were going after Terrorists groups and exterminating them The IRA stopped their activities.
 

jmick

Active Member
No worries, we are often on the other side of the fence but there are issues where we are bound to agree.
In today's Ireland the IRA doesn't really have a place (except for parts of Belfast). The economy is booming, relations with England are good, they are an active member of the EU, Sinn Fein is a solid political power and I think old wounds are healing. That said, if they were still engaging in various activities I highly doubt the US would intercede due to the high population of Irish voters in the US and I feel that the world has some sympathy.
 
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