Introduction

[photo guy]

I’ve been lurking around here for a couple of weeks soaking in all I can read. This is a great forum and I’m really glad I found it BEFORE getting into saltwater. I’m sure I’ll have LOTS of questions and from the looks of what I’ve been able to read these last few weeks I’m at the right place.
About me: I just turned 40 and I live 60 miles North of Atlanta and 45 miles South of Chattanooga in Calhoun, GA. In fact the saltwater set ups I’ll tell you about are my birthday presents to myself. I’m a self-employed photographer by profession. I own a studio that specializes in Children, Families and High School Seniors. I started photography at the age of 16 and went full time about 8 years ago.
I’ve been taking a crash course in saltwater aquaria because I’ll be getting my first tank in a week or two.
I’ve bought two established tanks. First is a 220-gallon tank with 450 lbs or so of live rock and about 100 lbs of live sand. It has about 1200 watts of lighting, 2, 400 watt metal halides and 4, 96-watt power compacts. There are a few fish and few corals in the tank now. I’ll pick this tank up in mid or late August. It will be a BIG move, 550 miles.
Secondly, I bought a 90-gallon tank with 350 watts of MH and a 20 gal sump. It’s currently loaded with live rock. I’m going to try to pick this tank up and get it running at my place next weekend. I’ll transport ALL the water with the 90-gallon tank. Hopefully that tank will stabilize pretty quickly. My intentions with this tank are to get it stable before I get the big tank and it’s inhabitants. I’ll house the livestock from the 220 in the 90 while I get the 220 set up and stable.
Once the 220 is reestablished I’ll either set the 90 up at my studio or sell it. It’s too big for a quarantine tank…isn’t it???
I’m sure I’ll have lots of questions but I’ll try to search the archives before I ask too much.
The biggest question I have now is this. Providing I get the 90-gallon tank set up and stable to house the few fish and corals from the 220 would there be any advantage to transporting the water from the 220-gallon tank? I DO have the capability of transporting all the water from the 220 & the sump but I’d rather not unless there is a distinct advantage in doing so.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Keith
PS
I’ve really been flabbergasted by the quality of some of the photos on this site. It makes me really glad I’m not competing with you guys (and ladies).

 

[f1shman]

Welcome Keith. Yes you would want to keep the water if you can, well around 75% of it. It has already went through the cycle and is seasoned and if you could, you could have a large tub with the water, fish, coral, rock, and sand with a powerhead or something to keep the water movement in. It allows your fish to adjust better and to "start off where they left off" if you know what I mean. I hope you take some good pics of your new fish

 

[photo guy]

OOPS!!! I already screwed up. I meant to post this in the newbie section. Can someone move it there.
Thanks F1ishman. My line of thinking is this. If the water in the 90 is exactly where it needs to be is there any real advantage to hauling the other water 550 miles? Here's the only analogy I can think of. If the air in your room is EXACTLY like the air in the hall outside your room what would be the advantage of trying to take the air from your room with you when you're going to the kitchen (bad analogy I know). How about this one. What if the water in the 90-gallon tank is BETTER (more on target) than the water that came from the 220 gallon tank. For the fish wouldn’t it be like when we walk out of a smokey bar into the fresh air? I thought I wouldn’t add fish to the 220 until the water was exactly on target.
Would hauling the water from the 220 help the rock and sand be ready faster? I don’t necessarily need fast as long as the 90-gallon tank serves its purpose. Either way I’d haul enough water to keep the rock and sand wet.
Keith

 

[f1shman]

Well I understand your analogy. It would be like walking from a smoky bar into fresh air, but you have to make sure that they walk slowly, otherwise the instant changes can kill them. (following along with the analogy)

 

[photo guy]

Gotcha.
Thanks,
Keith

 

[ophiura]

One argument would be that the water is NOT exactly the same from one tank to another. There are lots of differences. But the reality is that is a whole lotta water to move. Most of your biological capacity is in your rock and in a wet/dry if there is one. So priority number one would be to retain those and keep them wet...if you can keep them submerged that would be better but there will probably be some degree of die off however you look at it. If you have the capacity to save water then it might be handy to have it available, instead of getting home and having to get 220g of new saltwater into the tank. But then the temp might be high, etc, etc. You could fill up lots and lots of new trash cans and have water mixing with heaters, etc, for several days and solve that issue.
Will you be keeping the fish etc from that tank and moving them? This may require more advanced work. May not be a bad idea, if possible, to contact an LFS in that area and see if they could help you pack up the fish for transport (for a fee of course). You could get them to the LFS and then hopefully have them put in appropriate bags with oxygen.
Is there livestock in the 90g?
I am very happy you've found the board, and that you are jumping into this head first It will be quite a challenge for sure.

 

[acrylic51]

Welcome!!!!!!!!!

 

[photo guy]

Thanks for the welcomes.
Ophiura, I can definitely transport the live rock and sand submerged for the 220-gallon tank. I know I’ll keep the rock under water. What about the sand? Would it be better to keep the sand IN water allowing the contents to “float” and get stirred up with each bump in the road? Or should I just keep it wet, saturated so it’s pretty solid?
I’ll haul all the water from the 220 if it’s necessary. I’ll be pulling a trailer either way, just trying to avoid pulling 3,000 extra lbs if not necessary. That’s part of the reason I even got the 90 + it’s loaded with LR, a couple of fish and some corals. I’m pretty sure I can pull off the 90 gal move with info I found in the archives. It’s not nearly as far of a move.
It occurred to me last night that I could mix the water for the 220 in the tub in my master bath. It should be about the right size. I’ll measure the GPM to see what size it is next time I fill it. I already have the pump so I could then just pump the water from the tub to the tank. Should take about 45 minutes. Of course I would only use the tub for mixing the saltwater AFTER lots and lots of non-chemical cleaning. And I would be willing to forfeit the tub for a few days.
As far as transporting the fish here is what I THOUGHT I would do. I would put the fish and corals in one or two 10 gal tanks and seal the tanks on top with a sheet of glass and caulk. I would notch the corner of the glass to feed an aerator tube through. I can notch the glass at my studio. The hole the aerator tube goes through would also allow me to extend an electronic temp probe to keep an eye on the temp. An inverter plugged into the car would power the aerators. If the temp started to fall I would simply plug the heater (already in the tank) into the inverter until the temp is right then unplug it. This tank(s) would be in a larger rubber maid tub and behind the front seat of an extended cab truck. Wouldn’t this be better than a bag? Am I crazy…. Well, you don’t have to answer that one but would this work? Is it a good way of going? If this is a good way if going, should I also put a submersible filter in the tanks? The fish should be in there for about 12 hours, no longer than 16.
One other thing, should I aerate the rock and sand too.
Sorry for being soooo long winded.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Keith

 

[ophiura]

So, I gather from this desription that you're a pretty darn smart guy?
:yes:
It wasn't long winded. I was reading it going "holy cow this guy's been doing some thinking."
Do you have an idea of what sort of fish are in the 220 now?

 

[latino277]

Welcome to the board.
the fish transport tank is a really good idea!!! (smart guy)
I would put a peice of LR in each tank for the bio filtration with some kind of aerators. everything else sound good.....
transporting 220g of water is a big pain... I would say if you can move about 50%. that should be good enough. with the other 50% use it to clean the LR really good so that all you have to do is add the LR to the tank when you get home.
be ready to cycle the 220 either way... good luck

 

[bang guy]

Keith,
I have a few comments if you're interested.
Don't use a glass tank to transport the fish. It's stressful on the tank when it's full of water and there's a good chance it will fail during the move.
I'd suggest 5 gallon buckets with battery powered air pumps. Just drill a small hole in the bucket's lid for the airline and clip the pump to the handle of the bucket. Use as many as you need. Don't drill the hole to be airtight, you don't want to pressurize the bucket.
If you can find hand warmers or heat packs they can keep the water up to tropical temperatures just by placing one under each bucket.
If you have time buy some cheapo sponge filters and start using them in the existing tank so they grow a bacteria population. Then use them in the buckets instead of an airstone.
You won't need to transport the water from the tank. New saltwater will be fine, just acclimate everything well using the drip acclimation method. The new saltwater only needs to be standing for 12 hours. More is better but 12 is fine. Remember that the tank doesn't have to be completely full before you can get the water circulating. Don't feel like it has to be 100% full before you add the animals. I would feel safer using Brute trash cans for mixing the salt water vs the tub. It would be very difficult to remove everything from the tub surface. Be sure to pour the salt into the water when mixing. Never pour the water onto the salt. Stir vigorously when mixing saltwater.
A wide flat container is the best way to transport sand. The deeper parts of the sand will die off during transport so the shallower the better. Place the container in the vehicle and bring the sand to the container. Don't try to move a container full of sand. Those under-the-bed plastic storage containers work well. Once the sand is loaded you can stack light stuff on top of the sand container if you need to.
Unload the sand the same way - carry scoops of sand to the tank, don't carry the sand container full of sand.
Buy a big bottle of AmQuel. Use some in the buckets during transport to detoxify the ammonia. Save the rest for the tank. I suspect you'll have an ammonia spike a day or two after you get it all set up.
Starve the fish for a few days before transporting them.

 

[parmoffitt]

I would never mix anything from the tub in the bathroom no matter how clean you would get it. It would have residue that you don't want to get into your salt water.
I have lower back problems and at first hired a aquarium maintenance company to service the tank. I did this for several months and copied the system they used to fill and take out water from the tank. What a complete joy to be free of buckets. I get the job done in
less than half the time it took me to do it with buckets. This is a must for anyone with a large tank.
I have a 90gal reef tank. I use two 44 gallon rubbermaid tubs on casters (rollers) that I bought from Home Depot. Smaller tanks 55-75 could use 30 gallon tubs. One for mixing salt water and one for siphoning out from the tank.
I took a marking pen and marked the lines on both tubs for a l0% and 20% water change.
I bought a Mag 7 pump. A brass fitting MIP adapter with l/2" barb fitting and l/2" clear vinyl tubing.
I put newly mixed salt water to line marked and lower mag 7 pump and let it swirl and mix salt. I do this for several hours. No need to aerate. I use other tub and siphon to same exact line marking. Remember the tubs are on casters and roll easily to aquarium.
I then roll the newly mixed salt water to aquarium and have attached the l/2" clear vinyl tubing to adapter and then pump the water easily into the tank. If you are starting up a new aquarium you would simply fill both tubs all the way several times with newly mixed saltwater. This is how the maintenance company filled up my tank when they set it up. They had my tank with over 100lbs of LR set up and operating in 2 hours.
Believe me any of you large aquarium owners will think you are in heaven with this system.
You also can lower mag pump with hose back into old water and hose the water out of tub. I hope this helps. Don't use the tub in the bathroom.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by parmoffitt
A brass fitting MIP adapter with l/2" barb fitting and l/2" clear vinyl tubing.
You should replace the brass with plastic as soon as you can.

 

[parmoffitt]

I have been unable to find a plastic MIP adapter at Lowe's and Home Depot. Have another resource I could try other than staying on top of it and changing it out often?

 

[photo guy]

Originally Posted by ophiura
So, I gather from this desription that you're a pretty darn smart guy?
Don't know about that but thanks for the compliment

Originally Posted by ophiura
I was reading it going "holy cow this guy's been doing some thinking."
I've been giving this an incredible amount of thought. I like a challenge...I like them even better when it all works out.
Originally Posted by ophiura
Do you have an idea of what sort of fish are in the 220 now?
A sun coral, bubble coral, trumpet coral, green brain coral, green star polyps, a Picasso Trigger(Large), Percula Clownfish, Sailfin Tang(Large), and a Fridmani Pseudochromis, several large turbo snails, a bunch of hermit crabs, and a bunch of feather dusters.
Originally Posted by latino277
I would put a peice of LR in each tank for the bio filtration with some kind of aerators.
Would you also put a filter in the tank? How about an aerator in with the tubs that have all the rocks?
Originally Posted by latino277
transporting 220g of water is a big pain... I would say if you can move about 50%. that should be good enough. with the other 50% use it to clean the LR really good so that all you have to do is add the LR to the tank when you get home.
I’m not sure I’m following you…are you saying WASH the LR with the other 50%. I’m a real newbie. You might have to talk R E A L S L O W.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
I have a few comments if you're interested.
Of course, That’s why I’m here.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
I'd suggest 5 gallon buckets with battery powered air pumps
Will it adversely affect the fish being without ANY light that long? :notsure: What about the corals. I did think about buckets but thought SOME ambient light would be better than no light at all…again, what about the corals? The buckets would definitely be easier that what I planned.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
If you can find hand warmers or heat packs they can keep the water up to tropical temperatures just by placing one under each bucket.
Daaaah…Suddenly, I’m not feeling so smart.

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
You won't need to transport the water from the tank. New saltwater will be fine, just acclimate everything well using the drip acclimation method.
That’s what I was hoping for. :joy: Any other thoughts on this…..Anyone?
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Don't feel like it has to be 100% full before you add the animals
VERY good info. I didn’t realize that.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
A wide flat container is the best way to transport sand. The deeper parts of the sand will die off during transport so the shallower the better. Place the container in the vehicle and bring the sand to the container. Don't try to move a container full of sand. Those under-the-bed plastic storage containers work well. Once the sand is loaded you can stack light stuff on top of the sand container if you need to.
Genius! Sounds like you have moved a tank or two.

:joy:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Starve the fish for a few days before transporting them.
OK, now I’m REALLY confused. Everything I’ve read stresses how sensitive saltwater fish are. How everything MUST be consistent. If you can starve them for a couple of days to avoid ammonia couldn’t I just toss them into a bucket and make the drive? Not literally of course but you get my point. I’m all for hedging my bets but are these fish really THAT sensitive? If they were how do ANY fish survive the hurricanes like the ones we have had recently? :notsure:
Thanks for your thoughts. Let me know what else might help
Originally Posted by parmoffitt
I would never mix anything from the tub in the bathroom no matter how clean you would get it. It would have residue that you don't want to get into your salt water.
OK, OK, OK bad idea on my part. Do not use the bathtub, Do not use the bathtub, Do not use the bathtub. I’ll definitely be referring back to this post when it comes to water changes. Thanks.
Thanks again all of you for making me feel welcome here. I hope I can actually contribute someday.
Keith

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Photo Guy
Will it adversely affect the fish being without ANY light that long? :notsure: What about the corals. I did think about buckets but thought SOME ambient light would be better than no light at all…again, what about the corals? The buckets would definitely be easier that what I planned.
Being in the dark will put the fish in their sleep phase. This is MUCH much less stressful for them.
Corals will be fine for a couple of days in the dark. A white bucket will let in a lot of light where a black bucket won't let in any light
Originally Posted by Photo Guy
Genius! Sounds like you have moved a tank or two.
Nope. I've helped a lot though
Originally Posted by Photo Guy
OK, now I’m REALLY confused.
They are sensitive. If they don't eat there will be less waste in the water during the trip. If there are Anthias or other fish will high metabolic rates and small a stomach you may need to feed them a small amount. The typical SW fish can go a week or so without food. Some can go a few weeks.

 

[ophiura]

:yes: It is a matter of what they are sensitive too. Excessive ammonia can stress and kill fish long before starvation does. But don't worry too much about the time involved. Fish and corals are commonly shipped and so are in the dark, in bags, for quite awhile.
Bang Guy definitely gave me some ideas for long moves and big tanks :yes:

 

[mr_bill]

Welcome

 

[photo guy]

Thanks Bang Guy and Ophiura! Those are some GREAT tips.
Keith

 

[stuckinfla]

When I moved mine, left sand in tank with enough water to keep it wet. I put corals & rocks in 5gal buckets. Very large rock would be put into bucket that offer minimal movement, would put 1-2 fish in each of them. I would ditch the rest of the water. Water I dont think would be a problem on keeping them warm, more of a cooling problem. This is going on in August, and your using a trailer? (hope I read that right) I wouldnt think keeping them warm would not be an issue.
If the 90 gal will aready be setup in your home when the 220 arrives, why not acclimate corals and fish to the 90, mix the new saltwater in the 220, put the rock back in the 220 then let it run its cycle. This way, you can take your time while getting the 220 ready(and you dont have to use tub).
Im really tired and tried to skim most of the post ( ) so sorry if my advice sounds off the charts