Invert Issues: How long 'till I can try again?

beachhouse

beachhouse

New Member
Hi everyone,
I have a 72 bow front with 8 small fish, I have kept this tank sucessfuly for a little over a year, and had not significant problems.
About 3 months ago I wanted to add some inverts, so I purchased a Florida Condi Anemone, a Pink Tip Haitian Anemone, a brittle star, a Rainbow Urchin and a Flame Scallop.
Thinking back on this, I may have tried a few too many things at once, but newbie mistake.
For the first three weeks everything was fine, everybody looked happy. I had done a water change just before a put them in, and knew that I needed to do another one when the anemones started moving around.
About a week or so after the first water change the urchin died. It had been moving around since I put it in the tank, but a friend of mine said this was normal. A few days after the urchin died the anemones stared going downhill. I wasn't sure what to do, so I did a big water change and hoped for the best. They started to look better, and then got worse again. I thought it may have been the light, it had been 10 months or so since I had changed the bulb, so I changed it, and they started to look a little better. Ever since then they had gone from looking good one day, to bad the next. They both eventualy died.
All my water levels were normal, except I was keeping my salinity no higher than 30ppt. I didn't spot feed the urchin, but I did feed the anemones.
I think I'm at the point that I want to try this all again. Was the salinity what killed them? Or is there somthing else that I am missing?
Many thanks for the help!
P.S. The flame scallop is doing great and the brittle star was also doing great, that is the last time I could find him. (I'm not usualy up at 5am :) )
 
jacknjill

jacknjill

Active Member
hpw long had the tank been set up when you added them? they need mature tanks. what are your water levels
 
beachhouse

beachhouse

New Member
It had been fish only for about 6 or 8 months. My water levels were normal, but I didn't write them down. Sorry...
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
The salinity was WAY too low...aim for 35-36 ppt, or a specific gravity around 1.026-1.026. Big water changes (how much do you usually change?) are also not the best idea for animals which are sensitive to major salinity, pH, and temperature swings. The urchin and the brittle would most definitely have trouble with the salinity and I think it was too low for everyone. Avoid flame scallops which have a terrible survival rate anyway. The anemones are relatively tough, but still need very good water quality and lighting. Also, how long did you acclimate them, and what method did you use? Acclimation death can commonly take a month to occur.
I think if you slowly raise your salinity, and make sure your nitrates are less than 10, your ammonia and nitrite are 0, and your pH and alk are in a good range, you should be able to try again. The toxins are not an issue. I would suggest looking up, however, requirements for anemones (which have pretty specific needs in terms of lighting - the typical "standard" lighting on a fish only tank is not suitable), and acclimation tips as well.
 
beachhouse

beachhouse

New Member
I have 125 watt Power Compacts
one blue, one white (I don't remember the exact temperature)
Thanks for posting!
 
new2u

new2u

Member
that was the problem with the anenome, i know that they will survive for a little while with those lights even though they are very low for them (used to work for LFS people would buy anenomes grrr brings back bad memories
:mad: ) dont go with anenomes agian, it looks like your params (salinity & pH may've been swinging (i dont know just guessed )
 
new2u

new2u

Member
trust me i used to work at a lfs and know plenty about them, watts per gallon isnt usually the best measuring device, i'd go with dual 250 halides with t-5 parabolic reflectors, with electronic and icecap ballasts for anenomes and corals that would give you like 6 or 7 wpg and greatly intese light. PCs just arnt going to cut it.
 
beachhouse

beachhouse

New Member
No, don't get me wrong, I'm sure you know lights, but I don't.
And I wish I had the $750+ to drop on the setup you discribed, that would be ideal, but I can't say I do. However, I would really, really like this to work.
So if I understand you right, it just can't be done with Compacts at all? Not even 250 watts or more?
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
Actually I somewhat disagree on the lights, and I also worked at an LFS :) Had this been another type of anemone, and a few months down the road, I would agree...but I think that the time frame for these - and the fact that they were both condylactus anemones which do not have quite the same high intensity lighting needs. I've seen condy's under normal output 10K and actinic...in fact kept one under 50/50 normal output I think for some time...but they need feeding. The description of their behavior, along with the fact that all the other inverts (not light dependent) ALSO died, indicates water quality and acclimation, IMO. Lighting, IMO, tends to show affects further down the road, especially for something like Condy's. I've seen condy's in the wild in pretty darn murky water in tidal creeks. Would these have been the best lights long term? Potentially not - definitely not for any other anemone. But in this time frame and considering other factors, I don't think it was the main cause. Where did your anemone's hang out, by the way - high on the rocks or on the bottom?
And, unless you want a major coral tank down the road, I think that the lighting suggested would be extremely nice but not necessary...though definitely something I would take if given the chance. I've seen plenty of nice basic reef tanks - soft corals, maybe some LPS, that do not have that sort of lighting. Many people do have success with additional PC or VHO fictures. You just need to decide what sort of animals you want to keep...and some anemones may not be suitable.
 
snipe

snipe

Active Member
ophiura
So I can keep some anemones under normal output? What kind and how often do you have to spot feed them? I am planning on buying double 175 or double 250 metal halide just later down the road.
 
beachhouse

beachhouse

New Member
They hung out on the sand a the bottom, I actually placed them both higher on the LR when I got them but they moved by morning.
I used the SWF.com listed way of aclimation, all 4 hours of it.
Would buying another 125w PC setup (for a total of 250w) help?
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member

Originally posted by Snipe
ophiura
So I can keep some anemones under normal output? What kind and how often do you have to spot feed them? I am planning on buying double 175 or double 250 metal halide just later down the road.
Frankly, I don't recommend normal output for the majority of anemones. Certainly shouldn't be done with any of the 'popular' anemones - bulb, long tentacle, rose, carpet, sebae, etc. Just wait until you get the lights. Condys, IMO, are the only one's that you might be able to get away with assuming you have your actinics and 10Ks still. Not just basic aquarium "came with the tank" NO. But I would try feeding them a couple of times a week, at least...and wouldn't do it in a deep tank like a 55.
But personally, I would wait on them if you know at some point down the road you are getting MHs - this way you can get nicer species and more selection of anemones.
FWIW I also wish to clarify that, IMO, the current lighting in the tank in this thread is not sufficient for most anemones either. I just don't think that lead to their death. But additional PC and VHO lighting would make it, IMO, more suitable. BeachHouse - I wouldn't run out and get a new fixture without doing a lot of research on cost. There is no doubt that LFS prices on these fixtures is way higher than other sources. So you may be able to boost your lighting even more for the same amount - indeed maybe getting into a basic MH fixture. I would definitely sit down and decide what sort of lighting loving animals you ultimately want to keep, and researching their needs. A lot of people have wasted a lot of money on lights just to find out that it wasn't quite what they needed. :)
 
snipe

snipe

Active Member
I am planning on a clam anemone and some sps coral so I will need MH before I can get anything "I like the long tenticle and bubble" I will wait lol I have waited this long the 6 months will just fly by :rolleyes:
 
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