Is it irresponsible to buy star fish?
- Thread starter ninjamini
- Start date
cool99bomb
New Member
I have a choclate chip. They are very very hardy. And if you would like I can give you mine for free because im making it a reef tank. So if you want it please pm me
rykna
Active Member
I have never had problems with my starfish. I had to return my green brittle star. It was getting so big it started to hunt other tank mates. From my experience and much reading and reasearch, they need a mature sand bed. I would guess at least 6 mths old, and at least 2 inches deep. One problem I think is that a lot of them do not get enough food, they are left to scrounge for themselves( and I think this stems from the advesiting as detrius cleaners). I know my clean up crew works 24/7 and there isn't much left to pick from once the main tank animals eat. So I make sure to leave pleanty of extra for the star fish.
I have a sand tiger and a brittle star. I feed the brittle star krill. When the little guy is extra hungry it will stick a couple of tencles out looking for hand outs. The sand tiger I feed pellets with brine, krill, and other yummy things init. I pile 6 or so on the sand bed right next to "patrick"(just found a name for the sand from suggestions onine here) Patrick will quickly climb over the pile and comfenses stuffing his face. By the time the sand tiger is done Patrick looks like he's gonna pop!
My 90 gallon is will be 2 yrs. old this febuary. I did up grade from a 55. But I have had both stars for over a year. I did loose a brittle way back in the beginning do to a salinity problem. That is one reason why I do not buy RO water or any such water from the stores. The water that was sold to me was suppose to be a perfect 1.025. I was a fool and I trusted the store. I almost lost my entire tank. Hardly 5minutes past from adding the store water, when I checkedmy tank...everything in the tank was writhing in pain. When I did a salinity check it was off the scale. The star was curled up in a ball writhing in pain...she was thrashing around so much she cut herself on a live rock....the gash was huge....she never recovered. The rest of the tank suvived. sigh.....live and learn.
I think that is one reason why my inverts and stars do well in my tank. I get an overlaod of nutrients because I use tap water. But I pay for it because I a constantly on algae clean up duty. But if it keeps my animals healthy and happy I am happy to do extra scrubbing!
I have a sand tiger and a brittle star. I feed the brittle star krill. When the little guy is extra hungry it will stick a couple of tencles out looking for hand outs. The sand tiger I feed pellets with brine, krill, and other yummy things init. I pile 6 or so on the sand bed right next to "patrick"(just found a name for the sand from suggestions onine here) Patrick will quickly climb over the pile and comfenses stuffing his face. By the time the sand tiger is done Patrick looks like he's gonna pop!
My 90 gallon is will be 2 yrs. old this febuary. I did up grade from a 55. But I have had both stars for over a year. I did loose a brittle way back in the beginning do to a salinity problem. That is one reason why I do not buy RO water or any such water from the stores. The water that was sold to me was suppose to be a perfect 1.025. I was a fool and I trusted the store. I almost lost my entire tank. Hardly 5minutes past from adding the store water, when I checkedmy tank...everything in the tank was writhing in pain. When I did a salinity check it was off the scale. The star was curled up in a ball writhing in pain...she was thrashing around so much she cut herself on a live rock....the gash was huge....she never recovered. The rest of the tank suvived. sigh.....live and learn.
I think that is one reason why my inverts and stars do well in my tank. I get an overlaod of nutrients because I use tap water. But I pay for it because I a constantly on algae clean up duty. But if it keeps my animals healthy and happy I am happy to do extra scrubbing!
1journeyman
Active Member
As with anything in this hobby, research is the key.
Some stars do great in captivity. I've got two Brittle Stars I purchased from this webpage that have grown very well in the last year. I also found a couple of Serpent Stars that must have hitchhiked in. They weren't as big as the Brittles, but still obviously have grown since when they snuck in.
Some stars do great in captivity. I've got two Brittle Stars I purchased from this webpage that have grown very well in the last year. I also found a couple of Serpent Stars that must have hitchhiked in. They weren't as big as the Brittles, but still obviously have grown since when they snuck in.
ninjamini
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rykna
...That is one reason why I do not buy RO water or any such water from the stores. The water that was sold to me was suppose to be a perfect 1.025. I was a fool and I trusted the store...
I just filled up a 90 gallon yesterday with "salt" water and once it was filled I started testing and it was at 1.017. Yea in the red. I have started another thread with this question:
...That is one reason why I do not buy RO water or any such water from the stores. The water that was sold to me was suppose to be a perfect 1.025. I was a fool and I trusted the store...
I just filled up a 90 gallon yesterday with "salt" water and once it was filled I started testing and it was at 1.017. Yea in the red. I have started another thread with this question:
cool99bomb
New Member
Originally Posted by puffer32
and the CC isn't reef safe. Hope this helps
i learned that the hard way, $200 bucks in coral down ze drain
and the CC isn't reef safe. Hope this helps
i learned that the hard way, $200 bucks in coral down ze drain
nattybug33
Member
i have a chocolate chip star, you couldn't kill with a stick.
ninjamini
Active Member
Originally Posted by puffer32
The poster wants to get a chocolate chip or linka star...
NO NO NO. I do not want a star either CC or Linka.
This is a discussion weather its morally right to buy them. ALSO I am talking about the Linkas. Man-0-man why do I bother. Sorry Puffer nothing against you.
If anyone has a argument for or against the collection of linkas then please chime in.
The poster wants to get a chocolate chip or linka star...
NO NO NO. I do not want a star either CC or Linka.
This is a discussion weather its morally right to buy them. ALSO I am talking about the Linkas. Man-0-man why do I bother. Sorry Puffer nothing against you.
If anyone has a argument for or against the collection of linkas then please chime in.
jon321
Member
Originally Posted by ninjamini
Is it irresponsible to buy star fish? I am talking about linka or chocolate chip and the like. They have such poor survival rates. Chime in if you have a thought on this one.
It looks like you asked about BOTH to me?....but anyways. I think linkias should be similar to idols. Not regularily available, but can be special ordered if you want it (and hopefully have therefore done some reaseach on it and it wont be a splurge purchase cus it looks pretty in the shop tank). Chocolate chip stars I think should be MORE commonly collected. They are a wonderful species for the fish only or semi-reef tank!
Jon
Is it irresponsible to buy star fish? I am talking about linka or chocolate chip and the like. They have such poor survival rates. Chime in if you have a thought on this one.
It looks like you asked about BOTH to me?....but anyways. I think linkias should be similar to idols. Not regularily available, but can be special ordered if you want it (and hopefully have therefore done some reaseach on it and it wont be a splurge purchase cus it looks pretty in the shop tank). Chocolate chip stars I think should be MORE commonly collected. They are a wonderful species for the fish only or semi-reef tank!
Jon
fallnhorse
Member
they are also easy to proporgate too. Under good condition. You can slice your chip. I have and i have two.
ophiura
Active Member
An excellent question indeed.
All JMO:
First, lets consider that seastars, in particular Linckia and Protoreaster (aka Chocolate chip stars) are under intense collecting pressure from not only this hobby, but from the souvenir trade. Actually, you can add the sand sifter star Archaster to that list as well. Even worse, in both of these "hobbies' the star is more desirable when "perfect" meaning all arms are the same length....which could mean, in some respects, that the mature adult "brood stock" is selectively being removed.
Let us also consider the dismal survival rate of the majority of these stars. This is not a question of "it has worked for me for x amount of time (often measured in months - far too short to know true success). This is a question of overall survival rate in this hobby.
And for many stars, this is a very very low rate long term (beyond 18 months).
Now consider that scientists are debating whether seastars actually show any signs of old age in the wild. Too many feel "oh it is short lived anyway" or "oh it was killed by something" when these are both not true. The majority of seastars that make it in to this hobby live extremely reduced lives in our tanks. Many take months and months to starve to death. (I am making the distinction here, as it should be, between seastars and brittlestars, which are very different beasts).
So it comes down to the research you've done, and the tank you can provide. It seems quite clear, that success with stars like Linckia and Fromia is highly correlated with tank size (and more directly amount of LR). It is, IMO, irresponsible to buy an animal when you do not have what is considered to be the minimum requirement to keep it. There are exceptions, sometimes it works...but if you are counting on it to work, then I think that is an issue.
I personally feel that Protoreaster, being a predatory star, has more likelihood of success long term, though require a diversity of foods (including algae, BTW).
Archaster, the sand sifter, in smaller tanks - this case without a lot of surface area of sand - tends to do very very poorly.
I think it is critical that people research stars. I think it is critical that they provide the minimum care recommended, including parameters and acclimation. I think it is critical that they encourage others to approach their decisions conservatively - not necessarily "it worked for me" but more "it doesn't work for most." If you do these things, then consider a star.
But if I could personally arrange a ban of certain animals in this trade, some of the first on that list would be certain seastars.
All JMO:
First, lets consider that seastars, in particular Linckia and Protoreaster (aka Chocolate chip stars) are under intense collecting pressure from not only this hobby, but from the souvenir trade. Actually, you can add the sand sifter star Archaster to that list as well. Even worse, in both of these "hobbies' the star is more desirable when "perfect" meaning all arms are the same length....which could mean, in some respects, that the mature adult "brood stock" is selectively being removed.
Let us also consider the dismal survival rate of the majority of these stars. This is not a question of "it has worked for me for x amount of time (often measured in months - far too short to know true success). This is a question of overall survival rate in this hobby.
And for many stars, this is a very very low rate long term (beyond 18 months).
Now consider that scientists are debating whether seastars actually show any signs of old age in the wild. Too many feel "oh it is short lived anyway" or "oh it was killed by something" when these are both not true. The majority of seastars that make it in to this hobby live extremely reduced lives in our tanks. Many take months and months to starve to death. (I am making the distinction here, as it should be, between seastars and brittlestars, which are very different beasts).
So it comes down to the research you've done, and the tank you can provide. It seems quite clear, that success with stars like Linckia and Fromia is highly correlated with tank size (and more directly amount of LR). It is, IMO, irresponsible to buy an animal when you do not have what is considered to be the minimum requirement to keep it. There are exceptions, sometimes it works...but if you are counting on it to work, then I think that is an issue.
I personally feel that Protoreaster, being a predatory star, has more likelihood of success long term, though require a diversity of foods (including algae, BTW).
Archaster, the sand sifter, in smaller tanks - this case without a lot of surface area of sand - tends to do very very poorly.
I think it is critical that people research stars. I think it is critical that they provide the minimum care recommended, including parameters and acclimation. I think it is critical that they encourage others to approach their decisions conservatively - not necessarily "it worked for me" but more "it doesn't work for most." If you do these things, then consider a star.
But if I could personally arrange a ban of certain animals in this trade, some of the first on that list would be certain seastars.