is my LFS full of bull?

[lesleybird]

With all the live rock and live sand you will not see much of a cycle if at all. I have done two tanks in which I used all live sand and lots of fully curred live rock that did not cycle (amonia and nitrite never went above 0) and I put a very low bioload in from day one and did not loose anything. My LFS guy calls it luck. Well I also used a lot of the cycle bacteria in a bottle and did frequent (weekly) 20 to 25 percent water changes for the first 4 or 5 weeks. Luck? I don't know. I have two pygme angels and a majestic angelfish...they aren't suppose to be hearty fish. I don't recommend to anyone to do as I did. I certainly would not put too much in there too soon. My favorite thing to start a tank like yours is to put in the hermit crabs and snails at this time. Make sure that you feed them some sinking fish food pellets as they normally get fed from what fish leave behind. I would have the clean up crew (leave out the less hardy shrimp at this time) in the tank and feed them daily for a couple of weeks before adding any fish. Feeding the fish food daily will give the good bacteria in the tank to multiply as you want to happen in a new tank. You could add a hearty fish now like a damsel, but the problem with them is they can be kind of mean to other fish, and unless you intend to keep them they are almost impossible to remove from the tank without taking all your live rock out. After a couple of weeks of the clean up crew I would add a fish or two of what you intend to keep in there for good. Put in the least agressive and least territorial fish in first...And don't buy any fish until you can answer these questions about it. 1. What does it eat? 2. How big does it get, and is my tank big enough for it to be happy in? 3. What fish does it get along with? Until you can answer at least these questions about a fish you have no sense to buy it. Don't trust your LFS person on this issue. Do a search on line before sticking any new creature in your tank. It will save you a lot of money and greef. Good luck, Lesley

 

[u571]

i just set my tank up DEC. 1 and i had no idea about cycling. i had a guy helping my with some experience. i have a 100 g. tank and we used about 30% of water out of his cycled tank. i filled my tank up and about 5 days later i started adding fish(I KNOW NOW THAT WAS STUPID) but since then i have lost 11 fish (please dont give me to much crap) and my puffer died today. Could this be the reason why my fish are all dead or did i just buy a bad fish? the did have what lookd like ich it was like white dots and loose white floating skin on some of them? im trying to do my best and learn i just went way to fast thanks for the imput.

 

[elfdoctors]

Originally posted by u571
Could this be the reason why my fish are all dead or did i just buy a bad fish?
Probably both.
Having a large bioload (lots of fish) in a poorly cycled tank is a setup for disaster. Water from an established tank will only speed up the cycle, not eliminate it. Your tank is probably cycled nicely now. I read in a book that the way that the saltwater cycle was discovered happened by an error similar to yours. A number of fish were added to a new tank - they died. Instead of changing the water, more fish were added and they lived. Your tankwater is now more established.
However, the white spots on some of the fish sound like ich. This is probably still in your tank. You should probably wait before adding new fish as the tank needs to be fishless for a month to avoid infecting any new fish. You can add some invertebrates and feed them a small amount of food daily and your tank will be well-cycled by the time the month is gone.
Perhaps setting up a quarantine tank now would also be a good idea as your LFS will likely sell you another infected fish sometime.

 

[u571]

thank you, i still have 1 yellow tang, 1 firefish and 5 damsels in my tank. ALL my levels are right on what else do you think i should do? I did add some kent marine medicine for ich and some copper like i was told . How and when will i remove all that out so my water is clean / THANKS ALOT this really makes things so much easier.

 

[jlem]

Originally posted by Reefnoob
I have a 55gal tank
50lbs of LR (well Cured)
20lbs of LS (cycled)
3 biowheels
protien skimmer
canister filter
I set the tank up a week ago, left town and the water is like it never budged... all levels are the same as when I left or better (amonia and nitrates are better)
Your rock will produce some dyoff and some ammonia. If the rock was cured then the rock has cycled once already and does not need to go through a major cycle again. Once your readings are zero you can start to slowly stock your tank. No use in throwing a bunch of shrimp to super saturate your rock with beneficial bacteria if your rock already has bacteria to begin with. If you add live stock slowly then any ammonia build up will be slow slight and over so quick that you won't even be able to test for it. You won't have to deal with all the water changes to get your discusting water clean again after the shrimp pollutes it.

 

[elfdoctors]

u571 - Do you have any substrate or live rock in that tank? Because you used copper, anything porous will have to be removed if you ever have hopes that any invertebrates (e.g. a cleanup crew) will survive, because copper is permanently bound. A single dose of copper may also not maintain high enough levels in the water to kill off all of the ich. I am not familiar with the Kent marine medicine for ich but any treatments other than copper and hyposalinity are iffy. Copper treatment has to be done right or it will often fail. I would probably not add any new life and observe for signs of disease at least 3 weeks. 7 fish in a 100 gallon tank that new is still a fair amount.
Reefnoob - I agree with lesleybird's approach about adding some hermit crabs and feeding them. This will ensure an adequate cycle without causing too much of an ammonia spike which could kill off some of the beneficial life on the well-cured live rock. However, I am not a fan of the bacteria in a bottle. You will get enough bacteria from the live rock.

 

[lesleybird]

Originally posted by u571
thank you, i still have 1 yellow tang, 1 firefish and 5 damsels in my tank. ALL my levels are right on what else do you think i should do? I did add some kent marine medicine for ich and some copper like i was told . How and when will i remove all that out so my water is clean / THANKS ALOT this really makes things so much easier.
Oh S ! You added copper to the tank? Now you can never add any inverts to the tank or they will die.