darth tang
Active Member
Try this. Find out when your local ***** gets their delivery. Go in that night and count how many tangs they have in a tank. Then go back each subsequent evening and count. I guarantee a drastic decrease.
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Try this. Find out when your local ***** gets their delivery. Go in that night and count how many tangs they have in a tank. Then go back each subsequent evening and count. I guarantee a drastic decrease.
I would say this is true of many LFS in general. There is very significant mortality in general 48-72 hours after arrival, on all fish. Nor can you assume that all the tangs died. I would also guarantee a drastic decrease whether at a ***** or an LFS. Some died, some were sold....
Try this. Find out when your local ***** gets their delivery. Go in that night and count how many tangs they have in a tank. Then go back each subsequent evening and count. I guarantee a drastic decrease.
I would say this is true of many LFS in general. There is very significant mortality in general 48-72 hours after arrival, on all fish. Nor can you assume that all the tangs died. I would also guarantee a drastic decrease whether at a ***** or an LFS. Some died, some were sold....
dmitry
Member
Thanks ophiura for the post!! I don't work in any pet-store, but do work in retail and it always drives me nuts how all employees (and stores, for that matter) tend to be painted with one brush. (And I really do appreciate the original poster's mea culpa! Such things are rare, so kudos!) The ***** in NYC I visit has two very knowledgable guys and the rest are less so. But on a few occasions when I questioned one of these others and they didn't have answers they called one of the other ***** stores to see if someone did. Their tanks are very clean and the fish seems healthy. Though I haven't bought any fish from them simply because so far I've had some luck with a private store in NYC and wish to stick with them - even if they are on the expensive side. :yes:
darth tang
Active Member
Ophiura, I wasn't trying to imply ***** has a lot of deaths due to their fish keeping. What I was trying to show is the "Tangs" everyone seems to freak out about are never in those little tanks very long. Either due to purchase or acclimation shock style death.
newbiereef
Member
***** in my town are good as far as price, but i would never buy fish from them because tehy use 1 40 gallon sump and its connected to all 30-40 tanks they have. they also dont have a qt tank so if 1 fish gets ill then it gets passed to every one of there tanks, and all fish get sick. also they refuse to put cleanup crews in there tanks using the excuse that they always die and contaminate their tanks, i statred yrlling at the manager there and REALLY expressed my feelings that they should not connect all their tanks together and to get cleaner crews
ericp2311
Member
Originally Posted by newbiereef
***** in my town are good as far as price, but i would never buy fish from them because tehy use 1 40 gallon sump and its connected to all 30-40 tanks they have. they also dont have a qt tank so if 1 fish gets ill then it gets passed to every one of there tanks, and all fish get sick. also they refuse to put cleanup crews in there tanks using the excuse that they always die and contaminate their tanks, i statred yrlling at the manager there and REALLY expressed my feelings that they should not connect all their tanks together and to get cleaner crews
I'll bet that they don't keep cleanup crews in with the fish because they are treating with copper (standard practice in most fish stores...that's why you NEVER put that water into your tank). Any inverts they tossed in there would die pretty quickly!
Eric
***** in my town are good as far as price, but i would never buy fish from them because tehy use 1 40 gallon sump and its connected to all 30-40 tanks they have. they also dont have a qt tank so if 1 fish gets ill then it gets passed to every one of there tanks, and all fish get sick. also they refuse to put cleanup crews in there tanks using the excuse that they always die and contaminate their tanks, i statred yrlling at the manager there and REALLY expressed my feelings that they should not connect all their tanks together and to get cleaner crews
I'll bet that they don't keep cleanup crews in with the fish because they are treating with copper (standard practice in most fish stores...that's why you NEVER put that water into your tank). Any inverts they tossed in there would die pretty quickly!
Eric
ophiura
Active Member
Most LFS with FO systems...and you will often notice there are invert systems and FO systems, will not put inverts in the fish systems because they are effectively in hyposalinity (or too low for most inverts) or are treated frequently with copper. So the inverts would be toast and die. That is true, he just should have explained it a bit better, if he even had a clue (which I am not necessarily counting on).
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by Ericp2311
Ha ha...beat you to it!!!
(sulking)
Yeah, well....
You didn't mention the whole low salinity thing, huh, huh??
I just smile every time I see that avatar, just so you know....."Over the years I got to be quite a connossieur of soap. Though my personal preference was for Lux, I found that Palmolive had a nice, piquant after-dinner flavor - heavy, but with a touch of mellow smoothness. Life Buoy, on the other hand... YECCHH!" (yes, I had to look it up)
Ha ha...beat you to it!!!
(sulking)
Yeah, well....
You didn't mention the whole low salinity thing, huh, huh??
I just smile every time I see that avatar, just so you know....."Over the years I got to be quite a connossieur of soap. Though my personal preference was for Lux, I found that Palmolive had a nice, piquant after-dinner flavor - heavy, but with a touch of mellow smoothness. Life Buoy, on the other hand... YECCHH!" (yes, I had to look it up)
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
This is extremely common in nearly every LFS. In fact, if they only had 5 tangs in that tank that isn't many.
My thought on that has been that they (LFS) fully expect to sell those little guys before too long. Hopefully to someone who has the means to keep them.
After reading things on this thread, I feel very lucky to have the resources that I do, limited as they are.
Lisa
This is extremely common in nearly every LFS. In fact, if they only had 5 tangs in that tank that isn't many.
My thought on that has been that they (LFS) fully expect to sell those little guys before too long. Hopefully to someone who has the means to keep them.
After reading things on this thread, I feel very lucky to have the resources that I do, limited as they are.
Lisa
maeistero
Active Member
***** here in lawrence, ks does have some great people. one guy accidentally destroys those papers, or will let me take a whole big stack to "hand out" to the dumpster. a big problem is that they get random sw fish that they don't know about and/or are unprepared to keep. i must say that if they don't know about a fish/whatever they will not sell it to you unless you appear more knowledgeable than them. even then only the mgr will sell to you. great thing here is that other lfs' will let you post sale pics of things, so many people will buy *****'s non-common stock and keep it alive in their quarantine tank. stressful for the fish and i know it's a flawed process, but so is american corporate policy. ***** is making money. 
one thing that bothers me is that they will quarantine a fish in it's own tank, but that tank is part of a bank of about 20 connected. can't most ged graduates figure this out? :notsure:
one thing that bothers me is that they will quarantine a fish in it's own tank, but that tank is part of a bank of about 20 connected. can't most ged graduates figure this out? :notsure:
ophiura
Active Member
Depends what they are in QT for....many stores do not QT fish. There are actually differing opinions on the idea all in all. But to keep a few dozen fish (at least) in isolated QT for 5 weeks? Most stores just don't have that capability and as we KNOW from this thread and others, many people won't pay for the cost of that (keeping a fish in proper hypo for example, and feeding it for five weeks would add up...not to mention they would need to stagger the availability). So they may effectively put them in "QT" - basically just not sell them until they are eating and not showing signs of stress. But they are still in the system, often in a copper treated system. IMO, it is the hobbyists responsibility to QT or not. I think doing it would put most LFS out of business, JMO though.
it's_fishy
Member
My father owns 2 pet stores (his own, not chains) and does not sell saltwater fish for many of the reasons listed on this thread.
--high cost to proper upkeep vs. profit margin
--relative lack of customers for the expensive fish (making stocking a risky prospect)
--difficulty finding salespeople who are intelligent enough in SWF to give good advice to customers (let alone properly maintain the store tanks)
--and probably to avoid the hassle of pissed off customers whose fish die because they don't know what they're doing (and blaming it on "the store sold me a bad fish")
IMO, if a pet store is going to sell saltwater fish much, if not all, of the store needs to be devoted to this hobby.
--high cost to proper upkeep vs. profit margin
--relative lack of customers for the expensive fish (making stocking a risky prospect)
--difficulty finding salespeople who are intelligent enough in SWF to give good advice to customers (let alone properly maintain the store tanks)
--and probably to avoid the hassle of pissed off customers whose fish die because they don't know what they're doing (and blaming it on "the store sold me a bad fish")
IMO, if a pet store is going to sell saltwater fish much, if not all, of the store needs to be devoted to this hobby.
ericp2311
Member
Originally Posted by it's_fishy
My father owns 2 pet stores (his own, not chains) and does not sell saltwater fish for many of the reasons listed on this thread.
--high cost to proper upkeep vs. profit margin
--relative lack of customers for the expensive fish (making stocking a risky prospect)
--difficulty finding salespeople who are intelligent enough in SWF to give good advice to customers (let alone properly maintain the store tanks)
--and probably to avoid the hassle of pissed off customers whose fish die because they don't know what they're doing (and blaming it on "the store sold me a bad fish")
IMO, if a pet store is going to sell saltwater fish much, if not all, of the store needs to be devoted to this hobby.
I agree! It seems like a really good LFS has mostly (or all) SW...and the yucky ones do SW "on the side"...
Eric
My father owns 2 pet stores (his own, not chains) and does not sell saltwater fish for many of the reasons listed on this thread.
--high cost to proper upkeep vs. profit margin
--relative lack of customers for the expensive fish (making stocking a risky prospect)
--difficulty finding salespeople who are intelligent enough in SWF to give good advice to customers (let alone properly maintain the store tanks)
--and probably to avoid the hassle of pissed off customers whose fish die because they don't know what they're doing (and blaming it on "the store sold me a bad fish")
IMO, if a pet store is going to sell saltwater fish much, if not all, of the store needs to be devoted to this hobby.
I agree! It seems like a really good LFS has mostly (or all) SW...and the yucky ones do SW "on the side"...
Eric
E
exile415
Guest
IMO ***** is good for my fw. i've got many cheap ornaments on the $1 table.. I also was able to pick up 2 clown knives
mudplayerx
Active Member
I don't purchase at large chains for one simple reason... the employees' inability to negotiate on price. I shop at two privately owned fish stores in town and I haven't payed more that 75% of the listed price in years. In fact, they even trade frags with me.
fishhead81
Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
I hate bashing threads. *****: we've been there done it several times (see similar threads below).
Some are OK, some are not. That's it. Some actually do have decent, caring employees. Corporate policy may be poor. But people keep them in business.
But at least they have some sort of care sheets. Many many many LFS don't have anything and sell any fish to anyone without question..including tangs or whatever into 20g (if that) tanks, and mandarins for 10g (no mention of LR at all). It is extremely common. If it does on the other side of the door that's too bad. It is just sooooo easy to bash *****. They are a big target. But I can find local stores that have fish in as bad a condition as people are describing *****'s. Just keep it in perspective. Would I ever buy saltwater fish at *****? No. Do I buy any saltwater supplies at *****? No.
I also don't believe cheap fish is a reason to avoid or criticize a store, and I don't believe a lower price is a reason to buy fish from one place over another. There are many things to consider when it comes to the price of fish. I find it amusing when people talk about the price of fish this way. I worked at an "expensive" LFS where we had a 7 day guarantee, strongly encouraged testing your water, denied sales of certain fish without water tests, had many experienced hobbyists working there...a nice enough store that we did tours...but people don't want to pay the price. They came for info, and often bought elsewhere. So what is it people want?
People want warranties, ability to return/trade things, healthy fish, be informed of anything that might happen when mixing this with that (including "ESP" when it comes to what people have in the tank and knowing that) and about how to treat diseases, water testing, educated staff, clean tanks...but they don't want to pay? I'm not saying there aren't stores (*****) with expensive fish and none of those perks, but I just get really frustrated with many of these types of threads. JM(frustrated)O tho. Just be as critical of some of the local LFS as people are of *****.
well written. gg
I hate bashing threads. *****: we've been there done it several times (see similar threads below).
Some are OK, some are not. That's it. Some actually do have decent, caring employees. Corporate policy may be poor. But people keep them in business.
But at least they have some sort of care sheets. Many many many LFS don't have anything and sell any fish to anyone without question..including tangs or whatever into 20g (if that) tanks, and mandarins for 10g (no mention of LR at all). It is extremely common. If it does on the other side of the door that's too bad. It is just sooooo easy to bash *****. They are a big target. But I can find local stores that have fish in as bad a condition as people are describing *****'s. Just keep it in perspective. Would I ever buy saltwater fish at *****? No. Do I buy any saltwater supplies at *****? No.
I also don't believe cheap fish is a reason to avoid or criticize a store, and I don't believe a lower price is a reason to buy fish from one place over another. There are many things to consider when it comes to the price of fish. I find it amusing when people talk about the price of fish this way. I worked at an "expensive" LFS where we had a 7 day guarantee, strongly encouraged testing your water, denied sales of certain fish without water tests, had many experienced hobbyists working there...a nice enough store that we did tours...but people don't want to pay the price. They came for info, and often bought elsewhere.
So what is it people want? People want warranties, ability to return/trade things, healthy fish, be informed of anything that might happen when mixing this with that (including "ESP" when it comes to what people have in the tank and knowing that) and about how to treat diseases, water testing, educated staff, clean tanks...but they don't want to pay? I'm not saying there aren't stores (*****) with expensive fish and none of those perks, but I just get really frustrated with many of these types of threads. JM(frustrated)O tho. Just be as critical of some of the local LFS as people are of *****.
well written. gg