Is this enough fish....

[reeftanknewbie]

I am setting it up on wensday sept 11th(finally almost here) I am going to take pictures and post them once all is done so everyone can see what they helped create. Thanks again to everyone on the boards for there help. In my sig is my tank set up any comments or sugestions are welcomed. my lfs is holding my 15 domino damsels and 15 blue fined damsels and 15 clownfish for my tank cycle. is that enough fish to cycle my tank. thanks again. plus i have 90 lbs of live rock.

 

[pyro383]

First off that is too many fish to have in the tank. Next, that is not the proper way to cycle a tank. Finally, if you are going with a reef setup, you may want to go with sand instead of cc. The tank will need at least 3-4 weeks to cycle, maybe a bit less because of the live rock and sand if you get it. Throw a shrimp or two in there for a few days to get the cycle going. If you are going to keep any of those fish then wait till week 3 or so. However there is no need for that many fish. I am newbie myself and have learned much from this board.

 

[tjkohler]

I would not cycle my tank that way. Infact, that would probably be to many fish in that tank if it were cycled already. The best and fastest way to cycle it would be just to put in the right amount of live rock and sand. If it's a 175 gallon and you want to make a reef out of it then you are looking at getting anywhere between 200-350 lbs of live rock. If the rock is already cured than your cycle could be as little as a week. Drop a completely raw grocery shrimp or 2 into your tank and you'll be fine.
All those fish could get you another 100 lbs of live rock that you would need even after the cycle, where as all those fish will either be killed or have to be returned (have you ever heard the horror stories of catching damsels in a tank with live rock?).

 

[reeftanknewbie]

ok they told me i fish i fish per 4 gallons of water. I really nned to change my sig i have argonite not really cc even though arg is a type of cc. I have 50# of lace rock and 90# of fiji rock. I plan on adding more live rock soon money is tight right now.so with the amount of live rock i have how many fish will i need to properly cycle my tank.

 

[reeftanknewbie]

the fish that do make it are going back to the lfs when the tank is cycled. except maybe two of the clowns. but as i said i am checking what the lfs said to what you guys say usually they are pretty much on the same track as you guys so they havent lead me wrong yet.

 

[jumpfrog]

I guess your question is "how many fish do I need to properly cycle my tank?"
I guess the textbook answer is "0" needed. You could do it fishless.
With 90lbs of aged LR, by which you mean has been cycled and aged for at least 4-6 weeks you already have the necessary elements to cycle rather quickly. The cycle will react to your bioload and reach a balance.
One or two fish added now and your nitrogen cycle will balance at the bioload created rather quickly. Then as you add more load the cycle will grow to meet the new demand. A slow growth is better than a fast one.
It is not necessary to choose fish that you plant to return in a system that already has a large amount of LR. Sure, you'll want to add more as $$$ allow.
If it was me, I'd choose a fairly hardy fish you plan to keep and add that fish now. Maybe a royal gramma, firefish or smaller wrasse like a 6-line. Wait a week watch your nitrogen cycle numbers and if all is well, add another fish. Continue this until you safely reach your goals.
Good Luck!

 

[jonthefb]

i agree with the above, that it doesnt take any fish to cycle a tank. in fact i have done it this way for while. and even if you were gonna cycle with fish, i think that is way too many. let me suggest xsettign everythign up, your lr ls, and filtration running it for a week and watching your params whilse this is happening. get the salad shrimp and put a couple of those in there aas they will help. is you ls truly live? or ara you using dry sand? is your rock fully cured? if the answer to these live ques is yes, heck you might onl yexp a slight cycle, but nonetheless, i wouldnt was tiem and mony putting all those fish in there, possibly having them die, and then trying to return the ones not dead. i agree with jump, get one hardy fish that you are gonn aput in your tank later anyways, and use him if you really have to have something in there, if not, dont use any!
JMO
good luck
jon

 

[sistrmary]

If money is tight how can you justify buying 45 fish to cycle your tank with? Spend the money on rock instead! The average damsel sells for 3.99 to 5.99 multiply that times...heck we don't even need to do the math! LR sells for...strangely enough! 3.99 to 5.99. If you feel you must cycle with damsels (which I wouldn't suggest, ask around and bit and you'll hear the horror stories) use 5 or 6 of them and wait a bit longer. If the cycle doesn't kill them, they'll kill each other. Either way, you're losing money. If you won't look at it from a conservationist perspective, look at it financially. You're going to lose at least 40 of those 45 fish...I don't know many LFS that take in dead trade-ins.

 

[reeftanknewbie]

I dont need anyfish in there for my cycle for me i was told it was better but looks like the opinion is different here. the argonite is not live but the lfs said it would be over time. which is good by me means i can add more LR yes the LR has been cured and in a tank completely cycled at my lfs for about two months. they do have more which i will take the money that was spent on the fish and transfer it to lr.. ?? my lfs sells fiji lr for 7.99# base lr 5.99# and a heavier lr which i cant remember more spiny looking for 8.99# is this about right or is this too much. it goes down 1$ every 40# (ie 7.99 for 39# or less 6.99 for 40-79 5.99 for 80-120) The fish i would like to add once my tank is up are:
KORAN Pomancanthus semicirculatus
SCOOTER Neosynchiropus ocellatus
CLARKII/SEBAE Amphiprion clarkii
MANDARIN Pterosynchiropus splendidus
VOLITAN Pterois volitans (black)
Still researching the fish part and yes want to add live coral once my tank is running at perfect levels which i know will take time. thanks for all the help to you all.

 

[iechy]

That is way too many fish. YOu would end up with tless than half that I bet after the cycle.You don't need them to cycle the tank and it stresses them out. You also don't want to put a fish that you don't want to keep in a tank with any rocks in it. I am trying to catch a fish now that is being a bully to move him and it is proving impossible. Cycle it with the LR, LS and maybe some dead shrimp. You can save the money for some more LR and save the fishies lives for someone who wants them.

 

[tjkohler]

Take all the money you were going to spend on the damsels and clownfish and buy as much rock (figi) as you can. This will cycle your tank better and faster than the fish would plus you'll have all that quality live rock.
My two favorite fish are the:
MANDARIN Pterosynchiropus splendidus
VOLITAN Pterois volitans (black)
Unfortunatly the mandarin will become a midnight snack for the lion, along with anything else that moves and is 1/3 the size of the lion. That includes shrimp, snails, crabs, and a whole lot more. Lions just aren't reef compatable. Now you can do a fish only with live rock ... but I'm not sure that's what you are going for.

 

[reeftanknewbie]

yes going to buy more lr with the money. didnt know the lion would eat everything smaller then him. def going for a coral reef

 

[sistrmary]

That's about the average price for LR in LFS. It's a lot cheaper online, but you don't get to hand-pick it. If there's anyway to just get the money back, I'd really look into it online, if not, go for the Fiji LR for 5.99. Is the 8.99 you're talking about tonga? It's pretty, and it's fun to mix a bit up with the fiji (because you'll get orange and green algae as well) but typically stores will sell it *less* per pound because it's so solid and weighs so much more than fiji. you might want to mention that to your LFS
Thank you, by the way, for changing your mind about the damsels/clowns. I didn't mean to jump down your throat, I know that most people don't know better because their LFS makes more money if they sell them a bunch of fish that are going to die. You can get 45lbs more of LR and cycle with a couple of store bought shrimp
Also, I've never had a problem with anything eating my mandarin dragonet. It's maybe two inches long (smaller than even my citron clown goby) and it's never been bothered by either my radiata or fu-man lionfish. Or the marine betta. They've all been living together since I got the mandarin last year. (But I could be the exception! I'm always willing to admit that maybe the way I do things is unorthodox and that I've just been "lucky") As for lionfish not being reef safe...I disagree. They make the water a bit toughter to handle, but with enough rock, sand and mechanical filtration, they're prefectly reef compatible. I have three lionfish, so I'm not just talking out my butt I have snails, coral banded shrimp, cleaner shrimp, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, porcelain crabs, emerald crabs, red mithrax crabs, a scooter "blenny", a mandarin "goby" and clown gobies in with two lionfish, and I've not had a problem. Ever. One is an almost full grown radiata and an almost full grown fu-manchu.

 

[tjkohler]

"As for lionfish not being reef safe...I disagree. They make the water a bit toughter to handle, but with enough rock, sand and mechanical filtration, they're prefectly reef compatible. I have three lionfish, so I'm not just talking out my butt I have snails, coral banded shrimp, cleaner shrimp, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, porcelain crabs, emerald crabs, red mithrax crabs, a scooter "blenny", a mandarin "goby" and clown gobies in with two lionfish, and I've not had a problem. Ever. One is an almost full grown radiata and an almost full grown fu-manchu."
I think you are the exception. Lions are aggressive fish, ask questions about them on the aggressive board and I think you'll find that most eat anything they can fit in their mouths. When I say they are not reef compatable, it's based off their feeding habits, not their bioload (they do have a bigger bioload footprint though).

 

[jonthefb]

you have to remember also that mandarins ar enot the tastiest of fish. iff swallowed they exude a very toxic slime, that ususally causes the predator to release the mandarin. this is why they are able to coexist in sistrmary's tank. i do beleieve as well that lions are reef safe, as this is their normal habitat in the philippean islands. you will almost always find a solitary lion cruising around a coral head lookign for food. as long as you have the filtration to handle one of them, they id say go for it, but it does make quite a mess!
good luck
jon

 

[reeftanknewbie]

I am trying to catch up right now yesterday was move day and come to find out they had not changed the carpet in the livingroom yet so i was unable to setup my tank.. Grrrrrr So now my tank doesn't get delivered to saturday and i have a bigger problem a piece of fiji LR i ordered online arrived yesterday and I have no tank. How do I keep it alive til saturday? Is it possible? Please help. Ok now to catch up on your replys. thanks again guys for helping me. Yes sistrmary it is tonga and I will mention it to them thanks for the info. Its ok that is why I come here to find out about what the LFS says too what you guys say. I am glad about the lion and the mandarin, i like them both.
thanks tjkohler and jonthefb. I will take all you guys say and keep listening. I will post pics once it is up.

 

[tjkohler]

To keep the LR 'alive' just put it in a bucket of saltwater with a powerhead and a heater (if needed). This will start the curing process too.

 

[reeftanknewbie]

so filter power head and saltwater....???? thanks..

 

[tjkohler]

The base requirement would just be a power head for circulation. I would place a heater in there so that you wouldn't drop the temperature and lose more organisims. Some kind of filter is really optional and I probably wouldn't do it. Keep an eye on the water quality and if it starts to spike to much I'd do a water change. It will slow down the cycle, but it will also help to keep more of the hitchikers alive.

 

[reeftanknewbie]

thanks tj i will go home and do that right away. i just am trying to keep it alive. i will have a total of 150 LR and 50 lace in my tank. I was told that the lace will eventually become lr. so i think i will be doing good on the lr side and my argonite will be a good depth so things will good once it is cycled. how often should i add the shrimp and just to dead cocktail shrimp is what i am getting here.