IS this Live Sand of Algea Sand???

[tony detroit]

Sure can, its empty right now.
leak

 

[tony detroit]

Here's some pics from a few weeks back.
Before leak

 

[sailfin]

Oh man, I am sorry to hear about your leak. I remember reading that thread now. I always have that fear in the back of my head.

 

[tony detroit]

Thanks, your tank looks nice, I've always wanted a trigger in my reef, I love triggerfish. Just don't want to take the risk.
If you ever have problems with nitrate,phosphate, or algae control in your tank in the distant future, consider the dsb. I've ran DSB's before. They're not horrible or anything, I just feel there is a better way. The day I took out my DSB my skimmer wasn't even pulling out half of what it was with the DSB. Just a FYI. Maybe it will work for you, although I feel it is a big risk.
Happy Reefing.

 

[thedude]

Tony, im just curious how many inches you would consider to be a DSB?

 

[areijin]

Oh you guys confuse me too much. However on a similar Thread floating out there by Fishman77, Bang Guy said this stuff is "Perfectly Normal". To keep you both happy when I change that tank I will change the substrate and keep a DSB but not too Deep.

 

[rook]

Keep the DSB. It should be at least 4" and upto 6". Make sure you know the facts before you start making any major changes. There are many very qualified people who strongly support DSB's, including Shimek, Boremann, Frayley, Fenner, Calfo, just to name a few. Read any book or thread by these guys on the topic to get their opinions. Then, to to -- and you will find several long winded topic threads, some for DSB's some against. After that, decide for yourself what to do, but don't just take someone's single opinion that DSB's are good or bad.
IMO, for what it is worth, I have had a DSB for rougly 4 years. Mine does not look like your's, but it has in the past and it is normal. My Nitratres/ etc are all low (not zero but I don't skim, which is a topic for another time). I am a personal fan of the DSB and no one has ever given me any concrete evidence that the theory behind a DSB is flawed or that a PROPERLY maintained DSB will crash.
Just make sure you decide yourself, and if you go the DSB route, make sure you know how to maintain you DSB and tank. It is different than using system without a DSB.
BTW, you can use a credit card or razor and scrap that stuff off if you don't like the look of it. Just make sure not to disturbe the DSB much when you do.

 

[areijin]

I plan to keep it for a while at least.
Just make sure you decide yourself, and if you go the DSB route, make sure you know how to maintain you DSB and tank. It is different than using system without a DSB.
What is the maintains??? My one problem is that my substrate is SUPER fine. Finer then sugar grain and so I don't want to use one of those substrate plunging cleaners becuase I'm super affraid that it will take the sand with the water.
So what is your opiion on the size of substrate to use in a DSB? I will eventually change the substrate but as long as it is not a problem now I rather take care of a few other take things first, let the tank stabalize for a few month and then change substarte.

 

[rook]

You want very very fine sand. To maintain the dsb you need to do several things. You need to keep appropriate critters, such as different pods, worms, snails, mini stars, etc in the sand to stir the sand deep. You can get these from several vendors that sell livesand (real livesand with critters, not package junk) and detrivore kits. You also need snails, etc, to keep the top clean. Then, you need to avoid have livestock that will eat those beneficial critters, such as manderin fish, crabs, sixlines. There is a lot to keeping a dsb healthy, although once you understand it, it is not very hard. Shimek, Fenner and others have wrote books about proper setup and care for dsb's. Also, search this site. I am sure there are a lot of detailed threads about what to and not to do. Sorry, to say "go find out" but I could write for a week before I could give you all the info you need.
Whether to have a dsb or not is a big decision and you need to send some time learning all there is to both sides before you make up your mind.

 

[rook]

BTW, don't vaccum the sand like you would crushed coral.

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by Rook
IMO, for what it is worth, I have had a DSB for rougly 4 years. Mine does not look like your's, but it has in the past and it is normal. My Nitratres/ etc are all low (not zero but I don't skim, which is a topic for another time).

Let's see the tank pics and livestock. Then we'll decide.

 

[areijin]

Well I have crads in my tank. Is this bad with a DSB? I'm surprized to hear this.

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by theDude
Tony, im just curious how many inches you would consider to be a DSB?
Anything over 1''. Just enough to cover the bottom of the tank is fine.
Particles of waste settle out into a deepsand bed, stay there and rot away slowly. Unless you vacuum out your sandbed I feel a DSB is a ticking time bomb. I've also seen long term DSB tanks, they all have one thing in common. They are phosphate, dissolved organic compound, nitrate, poor growth and poor coloration factories. And in general, they're dirty.
I clean my glass every 5days. It's always crystal clear.
The DSB will "process the tank" theory is not going to work IMO. I find it hard to believe that 4'' of sand with some copepods, bristleworms, and nitryfing bacteria is going to somehow form a ecosystem. I believe plants in a refugium is the closest a aquarium will ever get to natural filtration/ecosystem.
Other than that I feel there is no substitute for proper maintenance, , carbon, plants, skimming, cleanup crew waterflow, and filtration, and of course water changes, because even the best filtration won't remove everything.

 

[areijin]

So if I were to change substarte what should I do with my old stuff? There is a ton of worms, mytis shrimp, and other super small things that (I can't tell what they are but see them moving on the glass near the sandbed) all live in there
Should I take like a few pounds of this and mix it into my new sand to jump start it either ofr a DSB or a thin sand bed?
The one thing I hear is that people might not think a DSB is good, BUT I don't hear anything saying a thin sand bed is bad. I need to hear some arguments for NOT having a thin sand bed.

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by AREIJIN
I need to hear some arguments for NOT having a thin sand bed.
Good luck, you probably won't find any.
Welcome to clean tank keeping.

 

[sailfin]

Originally posted by AREIJIN
The one thing I hear is that people might not think a DSB is good, BUT I don't hear anything saying a thin sand bed is bad. I need to hear some arguments for NOT having a thin sand bed.
High Nitrates, :yes: , nuff said.

 

[tony detroit]

Quote from a Dr. of Marine Biology and also avid reefkeeper. The guy that got me started on BB thinking.
"Sandbeds operate like wormholes and the excess nutrients and detritus are transported to a sister galaxy"
I still laugh every time I read it.
People really think 4'' of sand on the bottom of their tank is going to solve problems. Please somebody stop, my stomach is hurting from laughing so hard.

 

[sailfin]

Areijin, please do what you like best. I would go with what is pleasing to the eye for you. Whether it be very thin or very thick or maybe none at all. No mater which system you choose you can probably find some way of keeping a "clean tank."
"Clean tank" now my stomach hurts from laughing so much.
:hilarious

 

[areijin]

So if I go either way should I take a few punds of my current sand and mix it with the new stuff to jumpstart the "live" process?
Then what do you do with the rest of the sand? There is a lot of critter in there.

 

[thedude]

I always thought there was something fishy (no pun intended) about DSB's...one of those old theory vs. practice issues.