Ive been bit by the saltwater bug and need your help once again

[clownsrcoo]

Hello,

So I used to have a 55 gal saltwater fish only tank before. It was a pretty basic set up while i was in high school and ended up selling it off while i was in college. Its been about 5 years since ive had a saltwater aquarium and unfortunately i have forgotten a lot of what i used to know. That is where i need all of you.

I am starting over from scratch and in the researching stage right now. I want to do a reef tank and am thinking of doing a 90-125 gallon tank. I want to do the sump filtration but i have never had one before so i will have lots of questions on that. I remember how to cycle a tank but i have forgotten a few basic things.

I am thinking i want to do a tank with passive species in it. The fish i am interested in are below. I am pretty sure they will be fine together but can you please look them over and let me know what you think. I am not saying i want to have them all because i am sure there will be too many. Please let me know how many fish you think i could maintain in a 90 or a 125 gallon tank.

Percula Clownfish (2)
Flame Angel (1)
Kaudern's Cardinal (1)
Firefish (2)
Purple Firefish (2)
Clown Goby (1)
Neon Goby (1)


Ill have plenty more questions but ill start here.

Thanks,

 

[flower]

Hi, and welcome back!

The cycle part is pretty easy, the following is my personal method

Set up your tank with live rock and have your substrate, power heads and filtration all set, then toss in a chunk of raw shrimp, OR pure ammonia (found in any laundry isle at the supermarket) OR Ghost feed an invisible fish ( I would use flake food for that). Please, I'm begging you...Don't use a live fish!

Check ammonia only, you want it to spike at least to 1.0 ...Once the ammonia drops to 0, check nitrites...once that number goes to 0, check nitrates. If nitrates are above 20, I do a small water change...Then I wait and ghost feed for one more week...after that week, I test all three, and if ammonia and nitrite are still a 0...I do a 3% water change and the tank is set and ready to go.

Setting up a quarantine is a good idea, and let both cycle together. I kept a QT running when I first began to stock my reef tank, later on when you don't add fish and such very often, then I kept a sponge in the sump to set up a QT or HT (hospital tank) if I need it. When first stocking the tank, a quarantine will help not only to prevent disease or parasites, but it helps regulate how fast you add the critters, since too many fish too soon, is the #1 cause of problems for new tanks.

When your ready to do the sump, just begin a new thread called "I need Sump Help!" and the smart ones will chime in and walk you through it, equipment needs, plumbing and all. I do 100% recommend a drilled tank if you want a nice sump system with little hassles.

 

[clownsrcoo]

How many fish do you think a 90 gal and a 125 gal could support safely?

 

[tur4k]

Depends on what type of fish, filtration, frequency of water changes, availability of hiding places, feeding frequency... Some people pack a lot of fish into a tank. The environment is generally more stressful for the fish. It requires more upkeep. Some fish get aggressive if they have too many tank mates. There really is no magic number.

 

[clownsrcoo]

Well can you take a look at the list i put in my first post and tell me if you think that number is good for either size?

 

[mr llimpid]

Both size tanks are perfect for the amount and type of fish you have chosen. If you ever want to add a tang I would go with the 125. As for reef you need to decide if you want LPS or SPS coral or mixture, that will dictate the type of lighting you will need. You are starting out right researching and asking questions.

 

[clownsrcoo]

Mr LLimpid,
Thanks for the response. I honestly dont know what LPS or SPS stand for. Can you explain and tell me what type of lighting is required for each?

 

[mr llimpid]

LPS = Large polyp stone coral, require low level lighting, basic lighting for some others can use 1wat LED's
SPS = Small polyp stone coral, requires high level lighting , 3wat or more LED's
hope this helps

 

[clownsrcoo]

Oh ok thanks.
I found a pretty good deal today for a used 99 Gallon tank so I trying to see what kind of shape all of the equipment is in. It's been running for a year and already has 90lbs of live rock and sand. I think I might get that and just have a FOWLR tank until I get really good at keeping that stable. Then move towards a reef style tank.
If I just want to focus on a FOWLR tank are there any things that are crucial for a reef tank that you can do without on a FOWLR tank? For example can you use standard lighting on this style of tank? Do you have to still run your lights at night for a specific amount of time?

 

[mr llimpid]

Lighting for a fish only is only to view your fish. I have a 4' T8 shop light that I paid $20 at local hardware store. I do run Sylvania day light bulbs they have blue glow to them compared to cool or warm white. You don't need a protein skimmer of worry about nitrates or calcium, just keep up on your water changes and have a clean up crew to eat algae.

 

[seafishlover]

If you want to add tangs (yellow, blue hippo) be sure to add them at the same time and in odd numbers 3, 5, 7 etc. They will fight if you don't. I have had a 125 gallon reef tank for over 30 years now.
In my 125 gallon (includes protein skimmer, sterilizer, two filter systems, wave maker/power pump, moon lights) I have 8 mated pair of seahorses (eating from my hand), 7 firefish, 5 green chromis,
3 yellow tangs, 3 blue hippo tangs, 7 ocellaris clowns, 4 bubble tip anemones, 1 long tentacle anemone, and several pieces of different coral. My tank has been doing very well. I must note that if you decide on getting blue hippo tangs are prone to get ich. However, once they get over this they will live for a very long time...mine are over 5 years old now. Oh, make sure you get plenty of copepods and amphipods to seed your tank.

I also have another 125 gallon tank that houses one snowflake eel (over 2 feet long), one hummus trigger, one star fish and two huge lionfish (measure about one foot across from fin to fin).
If you have any questions...just ask.

 

[clownsrcoo]

I don't think I'm going to get any more advanced fish like tangs for now. The most complicated thing ill end up getting is the flame angel last. Others will mainly be types of gobies and clowns. I want to get really good with them first before I move up to more advanced fish.

 

[clownsrcoo]

I think in going with a 90 gallon tank as well. I found one locally for a really good deal.

 

[pegasus]

Once your tank has cycled, don't be in any hurry to stock it. You need to allow time for the beneficial bacteria to populate, so add fish gradually. If you can add some true live rocks, this will help speed the process up as it already contains bacteria and will help "seed" the tank. I know they're expensive, but I feel (and many will agree) that a good skimmer is the most important part of a marine system. While it won't remove Nitrates, they will remove massive amounts of DOC's. There are ways to get around skimming... such as a deep sand bed. This takes many months to fully mature. You will end up spending a lot of money on salt if you rely on water changes alone to keep Nitrates in check. A sump is a good place for a skimmer, but I would opt for a refugium if there was space for one. A deep sand bed and macro algae will help reduce Nitrates, lessening the frequency of water changes... AND there's room for a skimmer. There are different methods that different people swear by. It all depends on who you ask. I have a heavily stocked tank, and feed heavily, and I perform a 25% water change (maybe) once a month. My Nitrates creep up to around 10ppm before a change, but since I don't have any SPS corals, I don't worry about it since it doesn't seem to affect my softies or LPS's. My 2c...

 

[tur4k]

A 90G tank could easily house two or three times what you listed above if it was set up properly. I've had 4 tangs, a niger trigger, a fox face, a mandarin dragonet, a royal gramma, a pigmy angel, a flame hawk, a purple firefish, ten blue/green chromis, a midas blenny and a watchman goby for over three years,

I also have lots of LPS, soft corals, some hardy SPS (like montipora capricornis and porites on christmas tree rock), and a couple of clams.

I did eventually have to get rid of my trigger because he became too agressive for my tank, but I had him in my tank until yesterday. I also had to replace some chromis as the trigger decided to use them as chew toys.

To support my heavy bioload I have:
- Over 100 lbs of live rock
- a good protein skimmer
- a refugium with chaetomorpha
- wet/dry sump
- Chemipure activated carbon
- Phosban reactor


My advice:
- Don't add a lot of fish at once early on. Let your system balance out after adding a couple of fish.
- Always, always, always soak food in garlic extreme for a few weeks after adding new fish if you don't have a quarantine tank.
- Feed your livestock quality food. A mix of frozen food, seaweed sheets, new life spectrum pellets.
- Water changes are your friend. Regular water changes can help with sooo many problems.
- Make sure you have plenty of flow in your tank.



While there is lots of science involved in owning a reef tank, reef keeping isn't an exact science. Read. Read a lot. Try to learn how every thing interacts in your tank and then try to find what works for you.

 

[clownsrcoo]

That sounds like an awful lot of fish for this sized tank. Especially having so many larger fish like tangs in there. I would think it might be fine in the beginning when they are all smaller but once they are all full grown I would think it would require very frequent, large water changes to maintain it.

 

[tur4k]

It is pretty heavily stocked. None of my fish are juveniles anymore. I accidentally left my two ocellaris clowns and my black ocellaris clown off of the above list. I do weekly 30G water changes with natural sea water. My sump and fuge add about 20G of water volume to my system. I've never had issues with nitrates or ammonia. I can probably thank my macro algae (chaetomorpha) for that. Phosphates have always been my biggest battle since I feed so heavily. The phosban in my GFO reactor helps with that. As does the macro algae and water changes.

I wouldn't really consider tangs to be advanced fish. They are pretty hardy once acclimated. Just make sure to take your time acclimating them and keep some nori in a veggy clip. Mine had some ich early on, but I haven't seen any sign of ich in my tank in years. I just soaked their food in garlic extreme for a few weeks after adding new fish and kept the water conditions pristine. The problem took care of itself.

 

[pegasus]

As tur4k mentioned, a refugium adds to the total volume of water. He's able to add more fish (as much as a separate 20 gallon tank can support) to his display. I have a 125G with a 30G refugium, so in reality, I have a 155G system. Adding more water to the system allows for a higher bioload in the display tank, provided you also include additional filtration, IE: Chaetomorpha algae and GFO. I will be adding a 200lb remote deep sand bed to my system later in week (waiting for pump to arrive) to see if I can reduce/eliminate Nitrates. Different story for a different day...

 

[clownsrcoo]

Thanks for the insight. I am not familiar enough with the different algae and how to get them started yet so I'm not confident that I'll have the right ones in my sump system. Any tips on establishing certain beneficial algae and how to make them flourish ?

 

[pegasus]

Chaetomorpha (chaeto) is the easiest and probably most common form of macro algae. Since fish won't eat it, it can be grown in the tank (not really pretty to look at). It resembles a ball of green fishing line, and is sometimes referred to as spaghetti algae. Most people (I included) use it in a refugium with strong lighting. A simple CFL for lighting and good water flow is all that's needed for it to flourish as it grows by consuming Nitrates and Phosphates. There are several other types of macro algae, but some can be tricky (notice I didn't say "risky"?) as they can go asexual and wreak havoc on your tank. You'll want to do your homework if you want to use certain types of Caulerpa.