Just An ich Medication Question

[aanthony]

Ok, so my 90 gallon has ick, the only fish that seems to have it affecting them is my powder blue, and ick has hit him hard, i have about 4 cleaner shrimp, and one cleaner wrasse, i dose their food with selcon and garlic, but this powder blue has tons of spots, and ive noticed he has gotten a bit thinner. Now at my lfs they have this ick medication called medic, its made by a company called polyp labs. now since i cant post other sites ill just copy and paste the description of the product, this stuff is 40 bucks a bottle, i dont really want to take down my whole tank though, last time i did that my shrimp got super stressed and then died , but i do want to save my $60 pb. read the description, tell me what you think
Medic is a highly effective water conditioner used to control external fish parasites present in both marine and freshwater environments. It contains a reef-safe oxidizing agent and is particularly effective against:
Marine Ich - Crytpocaryon irritans Freshwater Ich - Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Marine Velvet - Amyloodinium ocellatum
Features
• Completely reef-safe
• Buffered to maintain physiological pH • Does not harm invertebrates • Does not harm nitrifying bacteria
Size: 30mL - (Treats 550G of aquarium volume)
How Medic works: Many external fish parasites have very similar life cycles. In particular, these parasites have an "attached" stage (trophonts), a "matured" stage (protomonts), a "reproductive" stage (tomonts), and a "free-swimming" stage (theronts/dinospores). Most available treatments do not target the free-swimming stage of the parasite which is one of the primary difficulties in dealing with these infections.
Research with ciliated protozoans has shown that the "free-swimming" stage of these parasites have remarkably consistent hatching times. We have engineered our product to be most efficient during this stage.
Our conditioner targets the trophont stage of the parasite but is also very effective in disrupting the life cycle during the "free-swimming" stage. Thus, when using Medic, hobbyists should try to maintain the highest concentration of the medication during this "free-swimming" timeframe - when the oxidative component in the medication is particularly effective against theronts/dinospores.
Active Ingredients: Crystallized Peroxide Salts.
Directions:
For in tank treatment:
Use one level scoop of Medic for every 50G of your system volume twice per day.
Dose once in the morning (Before 10am if possible).
Dose once in the evening (After 10pm if possible).
Continue to dose for 10 days.
Note: UV, ozone and carbon must not be used during the treatment. Protein skimmers can be run as normal.
The infection may seem to disappear when white specks are no longer visible on the fish. This is merely part of the natural cycle of the parasite and you must continue dosing the product for the entire course (10 days) to be maximally effective.
After treatment is complete, run granular activated carbon for 2 or 3 days.

 

[srfisher17]

I'm afraid I have never had, or heard any success stories for anything other than copper or hypo-salinity to treat ich. I've tried a couple similar products, not this particular one, that seemed to do nothing. I'm sure someone will chime in on this product and if its positive; it will be the first good report on any of the new miracle products that come and go. I hope it does work, an in the DT cure would be great...but I'll continue to Qt anyway...Good luck!

 

[beth]

I haven't heard of it. Does it actually suggest to dose a tank with inverts in it??

 

[perfectdark]

I have tried 2 different types of so called reef safe medications for treating ich on my fish. I went into this already knowing I had a low if any success rate but my issue was getting my fish out of the tank. It was seemingly impossible and unless I took my whole tank apart I wasnt getting them out. So, I decided to try these produts, BIG MISTAKE. What they fail to tell you about these types of produts is although they are not harmful to your inverts as a poision doesnt mean they like it. My corals all choked up slimmed everything I lost almost every invert i had because of the viscus film these products created seemed to sufficate my inverts and corals. I fortunatly didnt lose any corals but almost all my inverts. In conclusion I took apart my reef took out all my fish and they currently reside in a qt in hypo.

 

[rudedog40]

This is what their web site says:
Features
• Completely reef-safe
• Buffered to maintain physiological pH
• Does not harm invertebrates
• Does not harm nitrifying bacteria
Active Ingredients: Metronidazole, Peroxide acids.
Will treat approximately 550G of system volume
This is a review on another site that sells it:
Doesnt work by CHRIS
Comments: I used this product for 10 days straight. I followed the directions on the label, removed all carbon and filters. My clown fish died and yellow tang still has ich. Cleaner shrimp is the only hope now!
I would not recommend this product to my friends.
Can't find anything else on it. Does it work? Juries not completely out yet with just one review. Probably only one considering they want $40 for it. However, he may have followed the instructions on the bottle, but may misunderstood the dosage. He doesn't give the size of his tank. Here are the directions:
For in tank treatment:
Use one level scoop of Medic for every 50G of your system volume twice per day.
Dose once in the morning (Before 10am if possible).
Dose once in the evening (After 10pm if possible).
Continue to dose for 10 days.
So if I have a 55G tank, I need enough of this product to do 1100G for the 10 day duration (55 x 2 x10). As the bottle states, it holds enough to treat 550G of water. So I'd need TWO bottles to treat my 55G. That's $80. Do the math for someone with a 100 or 200 gallon tank. I'd give it a shot if Polyp Lab had a 100% money back guarantee. Don't see that anywhere on their web site.
As far as the active ingedient Metronidazole:
Metronidazole (INN) (IPA: [mɛtrəˈnaɪdəzoʊl]) is a nitroimidazole anti-infective drug used mainly in the treatment of infections caused by susceptible organisms, particularly anaerobic bacteria and protozoa. It is marketed by Pfizer under the trade name Flagyl, and also by various generic manufacturers, who sell it at a cheaper price. Metronidazole is also used in the treatment of the dermatological condition rosacea, where it is marketed by Galderma under the trade names Rozex and MetroGel.
In the human world, is used to treat parasitic infections including Giardia infections of the small intestine, amebic liver abscess and amebic dysentery (infection of the colon causing bloody diarrhea), bacterial vaginosis, trichomonas vaginal infections, and carriers of trichomonas (both sexual partners) who do not have symptoms of infection.

 

[mie]

Stay away from chemicals if at all posible, i have heard nothing but tragic stories of frustaration and loss

 

[aanthony]

hmmm, well the other one i looked at was stop parasites, made by chem marin heres a little descciption. Basically all im looking for is a temporary solution while i wait for my uv sterilizer to come in
A 100% all natural reef safe alternative for your aquarium!
Stop Parasites works by speeding up the fishes natural slime coat production, causing parasites to detach themselves. While this is taking place, another agent attracts the parasites as a non-nutritional food source. All this is accomplished while Stop Parasites is is building your fish's immune system and increasing their appetite!
Best if used as a preventative measure administering twice per week.
This copper free treatment is safe for all reef invertebrates.
Each 16oz. bottle will treat approximately 100 gallons for the course of the recommended treatment (five days).

 

[rolxism]

I just spent 30 on some stuff like this at LFS. It didn't work. I just bought a 10g, heater, 10gal filter at ***** for 40 and will never have problems again.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by AAnthony
hmmm, well the other one i looked at was stop parasites, made by chem marin heres a little descciption. Basically all im looking for is a temporary solution while i wait for my uv sterilizer to come in
A 100% all natural reef safe alternative for your aquarium!
Stop Parasites works by speeding up the fishes natural slime coat production, causing parasites to detach themselves. While this is taking place, another agent attracts the parasites as a non-nutritional food source. All this is accomplished while Stop Parasites is is building your fish's immune system and increasing their appetite!
Best if used as a preventative measure administering twice per week.
This copper free treatment is safe for all reef invertebrates.
Each 16oz. bottle will treat approximately 100 gallons for the course of the recommended treatment (five days).

There has been a ton of debates on swf over this product. A lot of people, including me, have used Stop Parasite with success. I will tell you this, from all the debates and a bunch of opinions on both sides, I have come to a conclusion about this product.
It is often an effective treatment against ich. Many people have used it and the infected fish is clear of ich at the end of the cycle (actually when I used it the last spots dropped off a couple of days after the last dose). This product increases the fish's slime coat so that the parasite cannot attach to the fish.
However this is not a cure for ich. Use of Stop Parasite can treat the infected fish but will not kill the parasite. If there is no QT, hypo or copper, there is always a chance that ich will come back.
Do a search of ich medication threads and you'll see a lot of positive and negative experiences with these meds.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by AAnthony
hmmm, well the other one i looked at was stop parasites, made by chem marin heres a little descciption. Basically all im looking for is a temporary solution while i wait for my uv sterilizer to come in
A 100% all natural reef safe alternative for your aquarium!
Stop Parasites works by speeding up the fishes natural slime coat production, causing parasites to detach themselves. While this is taking place, another agent attracts the parasites as a non-nutritional food source. All this is accomplished while Stop Parasites is is building your fish's immune system and increasing their appetite!
Best if used as a preventative measure administering twice per week.
This copper free treatment is safe for all reef invertebrates.
Each 16oz. bottle will treat approximately 100 gallons for the course of the recommended treatment (five days).
I'm afraid that a UV system will do little, if anything, to help an already ich infested tank. If you read up on the life cycle of this parasite, you'll see why. Every little parasite that emerges from the cysts (buried in substrate, usually) must get sucked thru the UV before it finds a host fish. The odds of this happening are zero. IMO, every minute you delay getting your fish into Hypo or copper, decreases chances any will be saved.

 

[ccampbell57]

Hey all just thought I would jump in here. My 180 DT came down with ich this week and I didnt want to move anything to QT because of the nightmares involved. So like most, I searched and searched for a medication that was safe for my inverts and my LR. I was told that Kick-Ich and Rx-P were the way to go, but after looking into it more, these are nothing more than stress coat applications. It basically gives the fish a little more amour against the ich, but the parasite goes free inside the tank. Some will get lucky and their fish will fight off the parasite without any major issues, but most will think that this formula is working and boom one day, their fish will be dead.
In my experience the only thing that has cured Ich has been copper. I have done this 4 times now because of my hypocondriac Hippo tang.
Good luck and make sure you feed them vitamins and garlic during the treatment process.

 

[ccampbell57]

Needless to say, in order to not distress the fish any more, I moved all the inverts and LR to my QT's and coppered the DT last night.
The fish are doing fantastic.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by ccampbell57
Needless to say, in order to not distress the fish any more, I moved all the inverts and LR to my QT's and coppered the DT last night.
The fish are doing fantastic.
Glad to hear it! I know, or at least I think, hypo is the treatment of choice among forum members; but I have, and will continue to use copper. If monitored correctly, I've never had it fail. I'll even admit to using on occasion in my QT just as preventative medicine. A word of caution: some fish, ie Flame angels are extremely sensitive to even small levels of copper. I use Sea-Chem copper (Cupramine), copper test, and copper remover (Cuprisorb), even had one of their tech support people give me a lot of advice. IMO, a real good company.

 

[ccampbell57]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
Glad to hear it! I know, or at least I think, hypo is the treatment of choice among forum members; but I have, and will continue to use copper. If monitored correctly, I've never had it fail. I'll even admit to using on occasion in my QT just as preventative medicine. A word of caution: some fish, ie Flame angels are extremely sensitive to even small levels of copper. I use Sea-Chem copper (Cupramine), copper test, and copper remover (Cuprisorb), even had one of their tech support people give me a lot of advice. IMO, a real good company.
I agree that it seems that hypo is preferred. I like copper because it is tried and true and if done correctly, it is awesome and works like a charm. I have not had a relapse of ich while using it, EVER (except when I am stupid and introduce it myself

).
I also use SeaChem Cupramine. This is the best. With my angels, I always start off with 1/2-3/4 the amount the bottle says to use because of their sensitivity.
Once the first dose is in, I wait 24 hours and increase and get the level to .25 and maintain that for 14 days. This gets tricky in a 180, but havent failed yet.
The only fish I ever lost to ich was my Powder Blue and it was due to my attitude that it would eventually go away. Not so much. I dosed and boom next morning he was sleeping with the fishes.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by ccampbell57
I agree that it seems that hypo is preferred. I like copper because it is tried and true and if done correctly, it is awesome and works like a charm. I have not had a relapse of ich while using it, EVER (except when I am stupid and introduce it myself

).
I also use SeaChem Cupramine. This is the best. With my angels, I always start off with 1/2-3/4 the amount the bottle says to use because of their sensitivity.
Once the first dose is in, I wait 24 hours and increase and get the level to .25 and maintain that for 14 days. This gets tricky in a 180, but havent failed yet.
The only fish I ever lost to ich was my Powder Blue and it was due to my attitude that it would eventually go away. Not so much. I dosed and boom next morning he was sleeping with the fishes.

Right! Cupramine is effective at well under the recommended dose; I think the bottle even says so. For such a strong med; there's a lot of leeway. I've also think that the idea or residual copper hiding in silicone seams is a urban myth and nothing to worry about. BTW, there is some copper in many prepared foods and even in Instant Ocean salt mix; probably others as well.