Just an observation...

triggerfool

triggerfool

Member
Okay...We all bought Live Sand, and we all bought Live Rock. Why did we do this? Because it has good bacteria. Biological filtration that makes it easier on the little fishies we all love. But since an aluminum can on live sand and rock can become "live" after a time, why do we buy it from these exotic places? WHy do we pay so much money for it? It seems irresponsible to take things out of the ocean for no reason. FIsh i understand, captive bred fish are coming along but its a long way away? But Live Rock and Sand i dont understand. It doesnt matter if it comes from the Carribean, Fiji, Timbuktu or Mars, the filtration is still there. Opinions? Really, im not trying to be a hypocrite.
 
twoods71

twoods71

Active Member
This is why many of us use LS and regular sand mixed together.
The same for LR and base rock.
The LS and LR seed the regular sand and base rock.
 
fshhub

fshhub

Active Member
it does somewhat make sense, but the rock never actually becomes live(just grows bacteria, IMO), but the aluminum can is a defintite NIX, that is one thing you do not want in your system, and all it will do is become bacteria covered and break down in your tank, but the sand, i agree, that is why we use mostly dry sand and just seed it with ls
HTH
 
triggerfool

triggerfool

Member
Okay, bad example with the soda can, maybe i just fished too many outta lakes looking "live." But what about plastic? wouldnt plastic rock formations that were pourous be excellent for aquariums. Im sure mixed with some live rock it would eventually take on the characteristics? Has anyone tried this? Is it possible?
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
triggerfool
I understand completely what you are saying. I think we like to add live rock not only because of the excellent biofiltration, but also cause it just looks do darn good in there. A reef tank with corals growing amongst a stack of premo live rock is what we think it should look like, we have grown to admire this appearance looking at natural reefs, and other reef keeper's tanks.
The addition of live sand from the ocean - is in my opinion, a way to instantly add a ton of biofiltration, sometimes with live critters, sometimes without. It is added to seed the dry sand as twoods71 mentioned, and will help to speed the cycling of an new tank.
I've bought live rock before, and detritivoir kits, but never live sand. I've always felt that given enough time, the sand will eventually be populated with the bacteria required. Not knocking anyone that does, just prefer not to myself.
If it was an accepted practice - who knows what we would or could use instead of harvested live rock. As you said, plastic media like a hardened extruded plastic foam sponge, in the shape of whatever was acceptable, for example. It would certainly look ugly as can be, using our existing standards for what "looks" good .... but would probably offer much of the benefits of live rock.
Aquacultured rock as Mr.Tang mentioned is another excellent option as well.
I liked your observation ;)
 
triggerfool

triggerfool

Member
Sure the plastic or foam would look wretched initially, but it would slowly but surely take on the look of the live rock. It could be good, you just need patience. Im damn sure it would be cheaper, plus you could get the most ideal shapes imaginable. Whatcha think? Do I hear a revolution acomin?
 
twoods71

twoods71

Active Member
Not 100% sure but I think I seen some posts a while back where people were using pvc pipe for a base and then adding LR on top.
 
jakob4001

jakob4001

Member
nope LR the natural way is here to stay so long as there continues to be market for it (US);not to mention there is probably almost no way you could manufacture the boideversity you get the natural way
 
just_got_tanked

just_got_tanked

Member
From what I have read in some books that MOST live rock is not from the ocean. That it is almost always cutivated by distributers. This all makes since to me now. I have about 80# of live rock in my tank. I have bought different mushroom colonies that were on bland rock ( no color). Now the rocks are alot brighter. They still dont look just like my live rock, but it looks alot better than when I just bought it. I think that if I ever set-up another reef that I would use some base rock and seed it with the live rock.
 
fshhub

fshhub

Active Member
weell, again, plastic would not be very efficient, it is not porous at all, it may be whole filled, but never can plastic be porous, and foam may work, the only problem there is it may float,
the only alternative we would have, is to get a rock type material, like rock, or ceramic or concrete, the only thing there is (with rocks) that many rocks that you would assume are safe, may not be reef safe at all, same with concrete,it has many minerals that may leech into your system qreaking havoc, so you need to cure it very well in fw(for a bout 2 months) before adding it to sw to cure somemore, and at best his is risky to any who do not know what they are doing with it, this i would consider, but do not know if i would do, but anyother substance(except plastic or glass)i would be affraid to add to my system and they are not porous at all
not trying to shoot down every attempt, but ther is a logical expanation for almost every substance that we have as an option, believe me, i have thought over many times on what i could use to save money(lr is rediculously priced)
HTH
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
Plastics are some of the most porous materials manufactured.
Pore sizes down to 10 microns are not uncommon - that's 10 millionths of a meter.
Never say never ;)
 
triggerfool

triggerfool

Member
has anyone used the agrocrete stuff they talk about at <a href="http://www.garf.org" target="_blank">www.garf.org</a> ? It seems interesting.
 
fshhub

fshhub

Active Member
sorry broomer, but i thought that plastic did not have the ability to be purous and soak up things, that is why we use it for so many htings, like to contain liquidand keep sterile instruments in, i thank you for pointing that out to me, i admit it was just an assumption,
my mistake
of course, maybe that is because of my perception of porous being the ability to retain water, not holes
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
heck that's okay fshhub !! I only knew that because we use these very porous plastic filters at work for chemicals, and have a friend in the plastic business. Otherwise I would have not normally thought of that myself otherwise ;)
later
 
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