Just bought a metal halide from a guy... Little help understanding lighting and such pls!

kilofey

kilofey

Member
Ok, so the MH light I just got (picked it up for $40) is 175 watts. Currently, i have a 75 gal tank with 2x 54 watt t5 bulbs. One is a white color and the other is actanic.
To get my 4 watts per gallon, could I add the bulbs together or does it have to come from one single source? If I add them up, thats about 3.7 wpg so, im close, but im not sure if I need a MH thats like 300 watts or something.
Btw, pls dont go into intensity and lumens and such just yet. Im far too new to the hobby to start understanding all that lol... For now, lets work with wpg, cause thats what I understand atm :laughing:
Also, my MH came with a power box thing and a socket thing where u screw the bulb into... And thats it. What else do I need (like reflectors ect) and can I get them at home depot and the bulb, can that come from home depot? Ive read I may need a fan or something cause mh lights get hot... if I have a 1/2" piece of glass for the light to sit on above the tank, will that keep it cool enough or do I still need a fan?
Im not trying to do it the cheap way, but I am still learning and if the same exact things can be bought at a hardware store for less $, id like to go that route cause good god this hobby is pricey lol. I figure if I can save a little here or there, ill have more $ for other things I may need
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi, I'm not handy at all, or I would fix it myelf.....but sitting in my garage is a 2 X 175w MH with 2 X 96w actinic retrofit (without housing). It has two ballasts. It has a short and needs to be rewired on one side. I paid over $900.00 for it, and used it for 1 year, made by Hamilton. I had it on my 75g and 90g tank. It has the reflectors and everything. Can you use that to get your lighting up?
I imagine the ballasts would be kind of expensive to ship they are pretty heavy but worked great. The short was in the lighting unit itself, the right side if memory serves, would be hard to get to come on. PM me if you are interested.
 
kilofey

kilofey

Member
I definately am, I will talk to my hubby and my dad & see if they are comfortable doing it, if so, that would be awesome!
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilofey http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3399881
Ok, so the MH light I just got (picked it up for $40) is 175 watts. Currently, i have a 75 gal tank with 2x 54 watt t5 bulbs. One is a white color and the other is actanic.
To get my 4 watts per gallon, could I add the bulbs together or does it have to come from one single source? If I add them up, thats about 3.7 wpg so, im close, but im not sure if I need a MH thats like 300 watts or something.
Btw, pls dont go into intensity and lumens and such just yet. Im far too new to the hobby to start understanding all that lol... For now, lets work with wpg, cause thats what I understand atm

Also, my MH came with a power box thing and a socket thing where u screw the bulb into... And thats it. What else do I need (like reflectors ect) and can I get them at home depot and the bulb, can that come from home depot? Ive read I may need a fan or something cause mh lights get hot... if I have a 1/2" piece of glass for the light to sit on above the tank, will that keep it cool enough or do I still need a fan?
Im not trying to do it the cheap way, but I am still learning and if the same exact things can be bought at a hardware store for less $, id like to go that route cause good god this hobby is pricey lol. I figure if I can save a little here or there, ill have more $ for other things I may need
The power box thing is the ballast. It is either magnetic or electronic style, and should have a plug (input) that plugs into a wallsocket for 115v AC input. If it didn't come with an input "wall type" plug, you'll have to wire one in - properly....The ballast should also have an output wire that goes to the screw type socket, and this cord should be 6-8' long, and provides the bulb (socket) with around 285volt ac power from the ballast. usually the socket fits inside a fixture OR refelctor unit and has some sort of glass pane protecting the bulb from water-splash and accidental contact. This glass needs to be 1/8" thick, and the size of your fixture. Also this glass needs to be tempered - so go to a local glass shop and order it by the dimensions you need and thickness (.125")
It's gonna to be easiest to find a used mogul (screw type) fixture to use - as I have about 5 of this style, all found on ebay over the years. Usually they have a powercord attached to them, and you'd just have to find a way to connect it to your ballast. Also - some ballasts have "connectors" mounted on them for the output AND input - so I'd need some pictures of what u got - espically any plugs on it. Then I can give more info.
OR - buy flowers unit - sounds like that might be easier
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3399900
The power box thing is the ballast. It is either magnetic or electronic style, and should have a plug (input) that plugs into a wallsocket for 115v AC input. If it didn't come with an input "wall type" plug, you'll have to wire one in - properly....The ballast should also have an output wire that goes to the screw type socket, and this cord should be 6-8' long, and provides the bulb (socket) with around 285volt ac power from the ballast. usually the socket fits inside a fixture OR refelctor unit and has some sort of glass pane protecting the bulb from water-splash and accidental contact. This glass needs to be 1/8" thick, and the size of your fixture. Also this glass needs to be tempered - so go to a local glass shop and order it by the dimensions you need and thickness (.125")
It's gonna to be easiest to find a used mogul (screw type) fixture to use - as I have about 5 of this style, all found on ebay over the years. Usually they have a powercord attached to them, and you'd just have to find a way to connect it to your ballast. Also - some ballasts have "connectors" mounted on them for the output AND input - so I'd need some pictures of what u got - espically any plugs on it. Then I can give more info.
OR - buy flowers unit - sounds like that might be easier
LOL...I PMed Kiefer, the amount I paid was crazy. I wasn't looking to make any profits just swap my unit and let him pay shipping. The retrofit is just sitting in the garage until I find a home for it. I'm not handy enough to play with it. It sounds like he is willing to mess with lights so I offered them. I told him what I paid so he would understand it wasn't cheapo light.
 
kilofey

kilofey

Member

 
The power box thing is the ballast. It is either magnetic or electronic style, and should have a plug (input) that plugs into a wallsocket for 115v AC input. If it didn't come with an input "wall type" plug, you'll have to wire one in - properly....The ballast should also have an output wire that goes to the screw type socket, and this cord should be 6-8' long, and provides the bulb (socket) with around 285volt ac power from the ballast. usually the socket fits inside a fixture OR refelctor unit and has some sort of glass pane protecting the bulb from water-splash and accidental contact. This glass needs to be 1/8" thick, and the size of your fixture.  Also this glass needs to be tempered - so go to a local glass shop and order it by the dimensions you need and thickness (.125")
 
It's gonna to be easiest to find a used mogul (screw type) fixture to use - as I have about 5 of this style, all found on ebay over the years. Usually they have a powercord attached to them, and you'd just have to find a way to connect it to your ballast.  Also - some ballasts have "connectors" mounted on them for the output AND input - so I'd need some pictures of what u got - espically any plugs on it. Then I can give more info.
 
OR - buy flowers unit - sounds like that might be easier
I will post a pic hopefully today, it does have the power chords and stuff. I really appreciate your help!
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3399886
Hi, I'm not handy at all, or I would fix it myelf.....but sitting in my garage is a 2 X 175w MH with 2 X 96w actinic retrofit (without housing). It has two ballasts. It has a short and needs to be rewired on one side. I paid over $900.00 for it, and used it for 1 year, made by Hamilton. I had it on my 75g and 90g tank. It has the reflectors and everything. Can you use that to get your lighting up?
I imagine the ballasts would be kind of expensive to ship they are pretty heavy but worked great. The short was in the lighting unit itself, the right side if memory serves, would be hard to get to come on. PM me if you are interested.
Flower I had the same issue with a Hamilton I had years ago.....Good system, but the 1 side shorted out as well. Actually it took me about 10 minutes to rewire. IMO worth the fix if someone wants to tackle the job. If I was closer I'd do it for you. The ballast box is the heavy portion and is where the cost comes into shipping....
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3399923
Flower I had the same issue with a Hamilton I had years ago.....Good system, but the 1 side shorted out as well. Actually it took me about 10 minutes to rewire. IMO worth the fix if someone wants to tackle the job. If I was closer I'd do it for you. The ballast box is the heavy portion and is where the cost comes into shipping....
LOL...I coud fix the wire problem and I do believe you guys could talk me through it. I purchased another MH light system a few years ago, and this is a retrofit...I wasn't able to make a decent housing for it with my canopy. So it's a little more handywork than just the wires which are all exposed on top and easy to fix. Kiefers could get this system a heck of a lot cheaper even with shipping than the route he is going. I do belive I have two almost new $70.00 bulbs with it. I have to have those self ignighting ones for the coralife I use. I think those they are Phoenix 12K
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilofey http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3399911
I will post a pic hopefully today, it does have the power chords and stuff. I really appreciate your help!
Please post pics and can go from there - if it's already corded - that'll be easier!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3399926
LOL...I coud fix the wire problem and I do believe you guys could talk me through it. I purchased another MH light system a few years ago, and this is a retrofit...I wasn't able to make a decent housing for it with my canopy. So it's a little more handywork than just the wires which are all exposed on top and easy to fix. Kiefers could get this system a heck of a lot cheaper even with shipping than the route he is going. I do belive I have two almost new $70.00 bulbs with it. I have to have those self ignighting ones for the coralife I use. I think those they are Phoenix 12K
I can probably walk you thru it, but it may take some simple tools like screwdeivers/pliers/wire cutters/and a volt meter - and some PM's back & forth with LOTS of pics....
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3399960
Please post pics and can go from there - if it's already corded - that'll be easier!
Quote:
I can probably walk you thru it, but it may take some simple tools like screwdeivers/pliers/wire cutters/and a volt meter - and some PM's back & forth with LOTS of pics....

I have a new light system, the retrofit is in the garage...it needs a new home.
 
kilofey

kilofey

Member
thanks for the help guys! sorry i couldnt post pics earlier, i work nights so i had to get some sleep -.- ZzZzZz
heres what i bought... ANY info would be greatly appreciated such as which parts i need and where i might be able to buy them

^^^ this is what i bought

^^^ this is where the lable where the light goes

^^^this is the lable on the ballast box

^^^ this is the side of the ballast
the pic below is a pic of the electrical box that goes to the thing u screw the bulb into
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
OK
You've a PFO lighting "Magnetic" style ballast for 175watt mogul base (single ended) bulbs - likely model AQI-175w
In Pic #4 - someone has already changed out the power switch with a new one - the stock switches are VERY high fail parts, but usually fail in the "on" position so the only way to turn off the unit is by unplugging it OR have a timer turn power on/off for ya.
I need a picture of the output plug, the one with the mogul base on the other end. The other weak spot on the PFO ballasts is the plug that plugs into the ballast - this plug should come off with slight pulling pressure - and we need to inspect the 3 copper pins in that plug wire - these pins are bad about corroding & causing heat - and overtime can melt the plug....So pull the plug off and get a pic of the pins, and lets see what they look like first. (someone MAY have already "hardwired" the output plugwire, but we can deal with that too)
Also don't try to power up the ballast till you have a 175w bulb for it. It's likely gonna be easiest to try to find a PFO fixture for it - I got all 6 pfo ballasts & fixtures used on ebay & saved thousands over the cost of new. I really dont have one as a spare, but in an emergency, I could sell it to you and buy another for my up&comming mantis tank.
lets look at that plug first
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
That says pulse...in picture number 2, does that mean it needs the self igniting bulbs like the coralife? I was told (by a coralife rep) that Coralife is a pulse unit and must have self igniting MH lamps or it will burn out the ballast. I had swapped out my Coralife bulbs with Phoenix and went through two ballasts, after complaining and getting the ballasts replaced, the Coralife rep told me this. I replaced the Coralife lamps and never had another problem.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Correct different bulbs require a different type of starting.....If you look at bulb manufactures they usually give a recommendation on what type of ballast is needed to fire their bulbs.....I can't recall specifics off the top of my head without going and looking though.....The info on the power switch is correct and that is an issue with a lot of assemblies like that where the switch fails rather easily. If you run them on a timer; actually takes the switch out of the equation unless it's shorted in the off position. I've used PFO extensively for years and never had any issues with the Romex connector from the light socket to the ballast box, but anything is possible.
No need to find a PFO fixture.....The important component is already there....You can purchase any mogul base sock and mount it into any reflector or such. If you look at the socket holder on the ceramic base I'm pretty sure you'll find 4 little holes (screw holes) for mounting???? This makes it for easy mounting on any reflector. Even if you'd go with something like the LumenBright reflector you would just simple disconnect the wiring from the back of the socket and connect the wiring to the socket supplied with the LumbenBright reflector.
I have no idea whose supporting PFO products at this time.....The went under a while back, but still a very good product!!!!!
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3400181
That says pulse...in picture number 2, does that mean it needs the self igniting bulbs like the coralife? I was told (by a coralife rep) that Coralife is a pulse unit and must have self igniting MH lamps or it will burn out the ballast. I had swapped out my Coralife bulbs with Phoenix and went through two ballasts, after complaining and getting the ballasts replaced, the Coralife rep told me this. I replaced the Coralife lamps and never had another problem.
That's a generic style ceramic base and has nothing to do with the ballast itself as that mogul base would work for any mogul-base bulb in the 175, 250, or 400w range. The printing on it just lists the ceramic base ratings... The ballast MAY be a pulse start model (with ignitor unit) and if it is, it will ignite ALL 175 watt single ended bulbs EXCEPT the Radium brand which require an HQI (double ended) ballast to light....If the ballast is NOT a pulse start unit (without internal ignitor unit) then it will light MOST single ended bulbs EXCEPT the radium and Aqualine Buschke bulbs for sure.
This is some old data from the PFO website: (a PFO lighting school)
They made the following ballast modles:
BALLAST TYPES:
MH-Standard US ballast which operate most types of single ended lamps
HQI-Ballasts designed to operate most European and double ended lamps optimally
PS-Similar to standard US ballast, but it has an ignitor. The ignitor aids in starting AB lamps
EYE-Mercury ballast designed to operate the Iwasaki lamps optimally
EL-Electronic ballast
IC-Ice Cap Ballast
ALL BALLASTS REQUIRE RETROFIT SOCKET MOUNTING HARDWARE, PENDANTS, OR COMPLETE HOODS
PFO PART # Broken down into:
AQ (Qty of Ballasts)-(Wattage and Type of Ballast)-(Voltage)
AQ1-70MH-120V AQ2-70MH-120V AQ1-150MH-120V
AQ2-150MH-120V AQ3-150MH-120V AQ1-150HQI-120V
AQ2-150HQI-120V AQ1-175MH-120V AQ2-175MH-120V (I underlined and bolded the model number I believe the OP has)
AQ3-175MH-120V AQ1-175PS-120V AQ2-175PS-120V
AQ1-250MH-120V AQ1-250PS-120V AQ1-250HQI-120V
AQ2-250MH-120V AQ2-250PS-120V AQ2-250HQI-120V
AQ1-400MH-120V AQ2-400MH-120V AQ1-400PS-120V
AQ2-400PS-120V AQ1-400HQI-120V AQ2-400 HQI-120V
AQ1-250EYE-120V AQ2-250EYE-120V AQ1-400EYE-120V
AQ2-400EYE-120V AQ1-1000HQI-240V
ELECTRONIC-AQ1-150EL-120, AQ1-175EL-120
The OP may have either the 175MH or the 175PS (pulse start) type - and since the original placard is totally illegible, the ONLY way to know for sure is to have the OP remove the four (4) screws on the front and the 4 on the back cover - then slide the TOP heatsink 1/2 off of the unit and take a picture of the "guts" and post it. If it has an ignitor for pulse start unit - I can identify it and then we'll know. ALSO with the top cover removed - the actual magnetic coil inside SHOULD have a manfactures placard that should say the specs of the coil, AND list bulb style (for example ANSI M57) It's easy to do this and requires a 5/16th wrench or socket and about 5 minutes. THen we'll know EXACTLY what the OP has and which bulbs he can use.
Note: typically when pfo left the "MH" or "PS" blank on the placard - it's a MH style
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
A Picture is worth a thousand words - so 2 should really help:
My PFO 175w unit with the cover removed:

The little grey thingy on the right is the CAPACITOR, there is NO ignitor, so mine is a AQ1-175MH-120V... If the OP has a third little cylinder or oval unit in here - that will be the ignitor, making his unit the AQ1-175PS-120v.
And a nice close-up of the nifty placard on the coil: (note it lists the lamp types the unit will light)

SO - this ballast will (from the placard above) light the 175w Metal Halide type M57 bulb, the 175w Mecury Vapor type H39 bulb and the 150w Metal Halide type M107 bulb.
Hope this helps. (my placard is totally unreadable too! but I knew what it was)
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3400196
That's a generic style ceramic base and has nothing to do with the ballast itself as that mogul base would work for any mogul-base bulb in the 175, 250, or 400w range. The printing on it just lists the ceramic base ratings... The ballast MAY be a pulse start model (with ignitor unit) and if it is, it will ignite ALL 175 watt single ended bulbs EXCEPT the Radium brand which require an HQI (double ended) ballast to light....If the ballast is NOT a pulse start unit (without internal ignitor unit) then it will light MOST single ended bulbs EXCEPT the radium and Aqualine Buschke bulbs for sure.
This is some old data from the PFO website: (a PFO lighting school)
They made the following ballast modles:
BALLAST TYPES:
MH-Standard US ballast which operate most types of single ended lamps
HQI-Ballasts designed to operate most European and double ended lamps optimally
PS-Similar to standard US ballast, but it has an ignitor. The ignitor aids in starting AB lamps
EYE-Mercury ballast designed to operate the Iwasaki lamps optimally
EL-Electronic ballast
IC-Ice Cap Ballast
ALL BALLASTS REQUIRE RETROFIT SOCKET MOUNTING HARDWARE, PENDANTS, OR COMPLETE HOODS
PFO PART # Broken down into:
AQ (Qty of Ballasts)-(Wattage and Type of Ballast)-(Voltage)
AQ1-70MH-120V AQ2-70MH-120V AQ1-150MH-120V
AQ2-150MH-120V AQ3-150MH-120V AQ1-150HQI-120V
AQ2-150HQI-120V AQ1-175MH-120V AQ2-175MH-120V (I underlined and bolded the model number I believe the OP has)
AQ3-175MH-120V AQ1-175PS-120V AQ2-175PS-120V
AQ1-250MH-120V AQ1-250PS-120V AQ1-250HQI-120V
AQ2-250MH-120V AQ2-250PS-120V AQ2-250HQI-120V
AQ1-400MH-120V AQ2-400MH-120V AQ1-400PS-120V
AQ2-400PS-120V AQ1-400HQI-120V AQ2-400 HQI-120V
AQ1-250EYE-120V AQ2-250EYE-120V AQ1-400EYE-120V
AQ2-400EYE-120V AQ1-1000HQI-240V
ELECTRONIC-AQ1-150EL-120, AQ1-175EL-120
The OP may have either the 175MH or the 175PS (pulse start) type - and since the original placard is totally illegible, the ONLY way to know for sure is to have the OP remove the four (4) screws on the front and the 4 on the back cover - then slide the TOP heatsink 1/2 off of the unit and take a picture of the "guts" and post it. If it has an ignitor for pulse start unit - I can identify it and then we'll know. ALSO with the top cover removed - the actual magnetic coil inside SHOULD have a manfactures placard that should say the specs of the coil, AND list bulb style (for example ANSI M57) It's easy to do this and requires a 5/16th wrench or socket and about 5 minutes. THen we'll know EXACTLY what the OP has and which bulbs he can use.
Note: typically when pfo left the "MH" or "PS" blank on the placard - it's a MH style
The picture #2 says clearly pulse....I am talking about a lamp bulb having a self ignitor not the ballast.
Look at my pictures (sorry a photographer I am not) if you can tell..they have different insides.
Phoenix lamp with no ignitor

Coralife with a self ignitor (a little dohicky just behind the bulb..on top) LOL..I think, because its the only difference I can see.

 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/386842/just-bought-a-metal-halide-from-a-guy-little-help-understanding-lighting-and-such-pls#post_3400241
The picture #2 says clearly pulse....I am talking about a lamp bulb having a self ignitor not the ballast.
Look at my pictures (sorry a photographer I am not) if you can tell..they have different insides.
Phoenix lamp with no ignitor

Coralife with a self ignitor (a little dohicky just behind the bulb..on top) LOL..I think, because its the only difference I can see.

Please understand that picture #2 is of a ceramic BASE only and the writing on it is ITS RATING - as tested by UL (underwriters labortory) It has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING TO DO WITH BULB TYPE OR BALLAST TYPE!!!! The writing on the white ceramic base in PIC #2 means it can handle "safely" UP TOO 600volts and/or 2000watts - PULSE RATED versus "continous" rated. This mogul base will work just fine for ANY type of bulb that'll screw into it - AND any ballast output of 600vac AND/OR 2000watts or less.
I am discussing and attempting to help the OP determine WHICH TYPE of magnetic ballast he has - pulse start OR probe start SO he can get the proper bulb for it when the time comes. A simple removal of 8 screws will reveal the placard on the coil stating which types of bulbs it'll fire, AND weather or not he has an ignitor. I took mine apart for the benefit of the OP and to show about the only good way to determine PFO lighting balast type once the placard is gone/illegible......(Which happens 99% of the time)
The ignitor unit is in the ballast, not the bulb. The difference in the bulbs you pictured is that one has a resistor in it - but bulbs "guts" vary ALOT by the maker of them and one really cannot determine "pulse" or "probe" start from glancing at the bulbs internal guts.
Rather than debate the "innerds" of various bulbs - lets just go to the horses mouth to a lovely chart that'll SAY which ballast you SHOULD have for which bulb style, color, maker, type, and power:
http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/metal-halide-ansi
Now if we could only discover which ballast the OP has, this'll be alot easier...A 5/16 or 8mm wrench or socket, 5 minutes of his time, and a handy picture will tell us.
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
A bulb with a resistor and a (shortened interal arc required to start) - so probe start

The resistor is the black thingy at 11:30 with the 2 copper wires on either side of it.
versus yours with out the resistor for Pulse Start ballasts only. BUT this is only 2 bulbs from 2 makers - there some very different looking ones out there - and just because one does/don't have a resistor in it is NO way to tell if it's pulse start or probe start.
 
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