Just entered Hyposalinity and Calcium is very low - is that normal?

[diane4]

We just reached the beginning of our Hypo treatment. SG at 1.010 and salinity 14. We did the drop over a 4 day period.
90 Gallon overflow - removed rock and inverts to QT before hypo
Current inhabitants are 3.5 inch dog face puffer and 3.5 Purple Tang
Nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
ph=8.1
Temp=80
And Calcium reads 100.5 now (was 95.8)
I am using a digital meter that I calibrated at 100 and 1000, plus a liquid test kit. Both are coming out around 100. I tried adding a little Red Sea liquid Calcium supplement and it hasn't moved much. I added aout 3 teaspoons - very slowly.
What is a healthy required caclium level for the fish alone during Hypo. I read that with the inverts and live rock it should be around 450 to 500. But is it the same for the fish alone. And, what is the best way to raise it?
Ich is almost fully fallen off the Tang. Cant ever see it on my puffer, he is all white - hard to tell. Tang seems well, swims about. Puffer seems to be resting a lot, eating, but very mellow.
What are the normal symptoms or things I might notice on fish during hypo?
Any input is much appreciated.

 

[the reef]

your calcium should be anywhere from 450 up to 650 is fine but mostly just raise it when it is below 450 400 is not bad as well so i would say if it is below 400 you need to bring it up I would moniter your ph level when your calcium is low it could drop if your buffer zone is either to high or to low so you need to check your alkalinity and magnisum levels i bet your alkalinity is very high and your magnisum levels low I noticed when my calcium level depleted my alkalinity started going up the alkalinity is a carbonate hardness and when adding calcium and magnisum will help to deplete the alkalinity when I added my calcium every day I saw my calcium levels go up and my alkaline go down thus helping stabalize the ph relationship to the alkalinity calcium and magnisum level and having a to high of a level of calcium will take down the alkalinity below where you want it Also moniter your ph level this combining relationship between calcium ions and the carbonate ions could have an inderect affect on your ph level as long as your ph dosent raise or fall between .05 incrments a day it should be fine

 

[beth]

Calcium is totally NOT important for hyposalinity and fish. Only corals need calcium, so you don't need to be concerned about it during the fish treatment.
You many notice that the fish want to EAT more. So, since they are sick and need their strengh, go ahead a feed them more. You may also notice that they become more active. Basically, since the fish do not have to spend so much energy on balancing osmotic pressure, they have energy to spare for eating and more activity.
What you really need to keep an eye on [daily] is pH. If it drops, buffer as needed.

 

[diane4]

WOW Beth. I thank you for answering my post and offering your advise.
I don't know what I would do without this forum and the people on it. Thank you Beth.
I noticed that my Purple Tang has more energy and seems generally well. Most of the ich spots are gone now. I am waiting for the last spot or two to fall off her, then begin the 6 week countdown for the treatment.
My dogface puffer, however - seems somewhat lethargic or mellow. Sleeps or rests a lot. I will try to entice him more to eat. He doesn't seem as hungry as he used to. My purple Tang is eating more - lots more. She is responding well to the treatment. I worry about my dogface puffer, Ipo - though. He is deeply, and I mean deeply loved by me.
Then again, dog face puffers are not usually very active fish and they do rest.
I will watch his ph daily with my Milwaukee meter - which I love. Beth, when do you think I should begin to see some signs of improvement to he general state of health and well being? Thanks a bunch.

 

[beth]

Can you post a picture of your puffer? In the other thread you said he was bloated?
Notice any cloudy eyes or raised scales.
I have to say, I did not have much luck with accuracy using a digital meter. Can you get a refractometer??

 

[diane4]

Originally Posted by Beth
Can you post a picture of your puffer? In the other thread you said he was bloated?
Notice any cloudy eyes or raised scales.
I have to say, I did not have much luck with accuracy using a digital meter. Can you get a refractometer??
I use a refractometer for testing my SG/salinity. I use a Milwaukee digital meter for testing my PH/TDS. I have also calibrated my diital meter and confirmed it's accuracy with a liquid test kit. my ph today is 8.0, I keep adding buffers to try to keep it at 8.2
I am so upset. We lost our purple tang this morning. We called her Mandy.

She was starting to rebound from the ich, but I think with all the water changes to enter Hypo, she ate something that got drudged up from the sump when I restarted my system. I am so upset. I bought a battery operated vacume cleaner today to use for any food debris cleanup without doing a water change and I find the drawing power on it is weak and the wand doesn't go deep enough. I have used the hand held vacumes before with the little sock like collection attached, but they never quite have the pull that you need. I want to be able to do clean up to be sure they don't eat any uneaten food that might be spoiled without a water change. Especially right now becuase with the hyp going on, the protien skimmer isn't collecting anything wihtout the level of normal salt. We had to say goodbye to our baby Tang.
We loved our Tang. But we are even more in love with our dogface puffer that we call Ipo (means my sweatheart in HI). He is the only fish in the tank now and he is going to stay that way until life is better for him and he is totally well.
I am a bit encouraged today, he seems to be moving about the tank a little more today. Happy to see that.
I will take some pics of my puffer so you can see him. His eyes seem clear and I don't see any raised scales that I can tell. I wil try to get a pic in the next couple days and post it up.
Beth, when you first started in saltwater fish, did you have lots of problems or fish die? I am working so hard to try to learn all I can, do things right, test every day and yet - I feel like a failure. I am so afraid of loosing him - that would destroy me. He seems pretty good today compared to the past few days.
When I get through the hypo and things are stable, I am worried about when I return all my live rock (appx 75 lbs of it) which has anthelia and some green carpet back to the main display tank, I worry if has ich on it, will it reinfest the main tank with my fish in it. Some people say that ich can live in live rock for ages. If that is true, then how can a fish hobbyist rid a tank once and for all of ich and never have it return. I have a 50 gallon tank as my QT where the rock is running my Aqua C remora protien skimmer. And, that tank will be my salt QT tank for any future inhabitants I get. I have heard that a UV sterilizer helps, and yet some folks say they are a waste of money. I think on a 90 gallon tank I will need a 40 watt and I am not sure what flow pump I should use. I have a lot to learn about that next. I do know that I want to get the Aqua Ultraviolet UV. I have spent a fortune with all this. I hope eventually it all calms down to a routine and my fish are well.
This forum has been a godsend for me. I live on this board. And I thank all folks that contribute to it. I hope to be 1/2 as knowledgable and helpful to other someday, as you all have been for me. Thanks Beth. I will keep you posted.
I am so discouraged.

 

[triggerfis]

for more conclusive results you may want to lower to 1.009.
even 1.008 would allow for slight evaporation increases.
regarding the rock, most of the tomonts will rupture within 3-28 days and thus die off when no fish host is found.
by keeping your main tank fallow of fish for 8 weeks this should basically ensure that no parasites have survived without a host for that duration.
regarding tomonts not hatching for months..not sure if there has been any literature that has documented that..at least nothing that i have come across.
there has not been a dormant stage discovered to date.

 

[diane4]

Thanks for the reply.
My dogface puffer is doing much better today. Not eating much, but swimming around and socialing with us. Since he is now alone, I think he looks to us more for attention, and boy does he thrive on it. Dog face puffers are just awesome, and cute as a button.
I do miss my purple Tang, "Mandy". Someday, I will get another one and a tusk too.
Want to hear something crazy? Last week, I spent 600 on a 50 gallon QT tank to put my live rock in, anthelia and green carpet mushroom while I hypo my puffer. The dining room is extreemly hot (thats where the rock is) and with all the tanks in the living room, it is very hot and air condition is doing triple time. So's my electric bill Yikes.
Anyhow, the QT tank with the rock has been climinb upwards of 80-85 F degrees. Much Much to hot. So, now we bought a portable air conditioner...for the rock.
What a sicko. If someone who doesn't understand or know anything about the aquarium hobby, and you told them you spent a thousand US dollars to keep your live rock alive while your salt fish is in hypo - they would think I am a real basket case. Which I am.
I don't care. I love Ipo so much. Luv this forum too.

 

[triggerfis]

why would a 50g tank cost 600? normally you can get them for 25-50 bucks.
i must be missing something or was that including the ac?
just blow a box fan on the top of the tank..keep it under 84 and you'll be fine.

 

[diane4]

Originally Posted by Triggerfis
why would a 50g tank cost 600? normally you can get them for 25-50 bucks.
i must be missing something or was that including the ac?
just blow a box fan on the top of the tank..keep it under 84 and you'll be fine.
In US dollars brand new at a lfs, the tank, hood, lights and stand was around 500. I might have had a few things besides that, but it was the bulk of it.
As I understand it, live rock and inverts require 80 or below. With the temp hitting 85, I noticed color changes in my rock, not for the better.
I am ok now. I figured getting the portable air is better than investing 800 for a chiller which only helps 1 tank. We an use the cook too.

 

[beth]

You sound like you have the lifetime marine hobbyist blood running in your veins. Good for you!
I agree, dogpuffs are awesome and so utterly sweet. They are a true pet fish. If I ever setup again, it will likly be for a puffer pet tank.