just great...the dreaded mantis!!

[clarkiiboi]

It's becoming a serious possiblility. Few questions: I know from reading here ususally there is clicking, but could hearing a tap on the glass (just one at a time) every few minutes or so be the same difference? (maybe the difference btwn a smasher and a slasher) I have looked and don't see any snails near the glass so it's not their shells hitting, though I was hoping it was. And secondly, is there a light color they may not see? I know some use red lights to look into the tanks, but I can't remember if it's the fish or the inverts that can't see this? Thanks all in advance.

 

[cb]

I use a red light to look at my tank at night and I see fish and inverts both with it.

 

[clarkiiboi]

Yes, I know we can see everything with the red lights. But, it's not so noticable to either the fish or the inverts themselves, I just can't remember which. Anyways, should I be worried? I have lost a few fish (MIA) after hearing this "noise" and that is when the light bulb in my head went off. 1 and 1 is 2, ya know what I mean. Of course, I have checked water parameters

[hr]
ph 8.3, amm and trItes 0, trAtes 10 (normal for me), salinity 1.0024. RO/DI also.

 

[bonermeister]

There is no light you can use that you will be able to see that a mantis shrimp cannot see. Their eyesight is far advanced in respect to humans: humans have three types of photo-receptors and I am reasonably confident that mantis shrimp possess sixteen different types of photo-receptors.
Not to mention that they have triocular vision. (Triocular in the sense they have three "pupils" per eye.)
Good luck getting the dirty bugger out of your tank.

 

[phoenixrising]

Originally posted by Bonermeister
Good luck getting the dirty bugger out of your tank.

When you get him out...send him to me! I think they are awesome little fellas (given the right environment of course)!

 

[lesa]

PhoenixRasing, I was thinking the same thing but you beat me to it

 

[leigh]

PhoenixRising, where were you when I was looking for a good home for the one I caught!!! Seriously though, clarkiiboi, I found frozen plankton to be a very effective lure if that helps at all...
-leigh

 

[justinx]

Originally posted by Bonermeister
There is no light you can use that you will be able to see that a mantis shrimp cannot see. Their eyesight is far advanced in respect to humans: humans have three types of photo-receptors and I am reasonably confident that mantis shrimp possess sixteen different types of photo-receptors.
Not to mention that they have triocular vision. (Triocular in the sense they have three "pupils" per eye.)
Good luck getting the dirty bugger out of your tank.

I'd like to see some concrete evidence of this . . . 'cause i disagree. Almost every marine animal that has any form of visual sensory system has evolved and adapted out through the process of natural selection the ability to "see" red light. Simply because visible light in the red end of the spectrum travels literally a matter of feet if not inches in water. That and "trinocular" vision is impossible. This would imply that the mantis shrimp could see a fourth dimension. Binocular vision is defined as the ability to percieve 3 dimensions in space, and is the result of two over-lapping visual fields.
P.S. Humans only have 2 photoreceptors, Rods and Cones.
HTH
Justin

 

[phoenixrising]

Lesa--gotta LOVE them thar Mantis! Chock full of personality! Smart and quick. Mine live in the refugium. I have never intentionally bought one, these were found as challenged hitch hikers on live rock from the gulf.
Leigh--you don't live that far from me...happy to take one off your hands whenever you have a spare one!

 

[grendelprime]

easiest way i found to catch almost any invert is the old mayo jar trick, take a cleaned out mayo jar and before lights out put some food in it and tilt the jar against the rocks , buggers can get in but they cant get out depending on how big he is, i caught 2 mantis this way, but there smart and wont usualy fall for the same trick twice, good luck

 

[clarkiiboi]

Thanks all, so do you all think that a tap on the glass every few minutes is a great possibility of a mantis? It happens every night, but not all night long. I still am not sure. I haven't actually seen any part of it, just missing fish and dead snails. I have read alot of posts about catching these, so I got a few tricks up my sleeve if need be. PhoenixRising If it turns out to be one and if it comes out like a good critter should, I'll let ya know and you can have it.

 

[leigh]

Definitely sounds like one...mine was so subtle I honestly thought it was just a powerhead mechanical clicking I was hearing since I had it ever since I started up my tank. I was wrong. Good luck!

 

[clarkiiboi]

Leigh--yep, I must say mine is not so much an annoying type of sound, but annoying enough in the sense of "what is that!" I have no idea what rock it may be in, but when I do figure it out, that rock is coming out of the tank and put into a bucket with SW and then the game begins.
Also, I did a search, cause I knew I saw a post with a video and the sound a mantis makes. Found it (sounds the same, but a single tap, not 2 in a row like that video though). So, new questions---DvSkin (in a different post) said that if it took time to "reload" (click/tapping wise) that it may be a pistol shrimp. Well, I have always said it takes a few minutes and then I hear 1 single tap---(a "reload"?) could it be a pistol shrimp? How bad are these?
Again, thanks all and sorry for all the questions and the long post.

 

[bonermeister]

Originally posted by JustinX
I'd like to see some concrete evidence of this . . . 'cause i disagree. Almost every marine animal that has any form of visual sensory system has evolved and adapted out through the process of natural selection the ability to "see" red light. Simply because visible light in the red end of the spectrum travels literally a matter of feet if not inches in water. That and "trinocular" vision is impossible. This would imply that the mantis shrimp could see a fourth dimension. Binocular vision is defined as the ability to percieve 3 dimensions in space, and is the result of two over-lapping visual fields.
P.S. Humans only have 2 photoreceptors, Rods and Cones.
HTH
Justin
The retina contains two types of photoreceptors, rods and cones. The rods are more numerous, some 120 million, and are more sensitive than the cones. However, they are not sensitive to color. The 6 to 7 million cones provide the eye's color sensitivity and they are much more concentrated in the central yellow spot known as the macula. In the center of that region is the " fovea centralis ", a 0.3 mm diameter rod-free area with very thin, densely packed cones.
The experimental evidence suggests that among the cones there are three different types of color reception. Response curves for the three types of cones have been determined. Since the perception of color depends on the firing of these three types of nerve cells, it follows that visible color can be mapped in terms of three numbers called tristimulus values. Color perception has been successfully modeled in terms of tristimulus values and mapped on the CIE chromaticity diagram.
You are correct, I used the incorrect terminology. I meant that humans have three different types of color reception. There is definitive evidence that mantis shrimp can see a very wide range of radiation on the electromagnetic spectrum. I do not have direct documentation on hand, but if you provide your email I will see to it that you receive a copy. Sorry for the incorrect information. Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[justinx]

Sweet . . . I wasnt trying to be an ass or anything. Just trying to get things straight thats all, and I do know that the mantis is capable of seeing much more of the light spectrum than humans, like UV for example. If you ever find the article, please . . . post it! (I have a degree in neuroscience and am currently conducting research in the field, i love reading about marine life realted neuroscience!)
Thanks,
and again, i wasnt try to be mean or anything.
Justin

 

[bonermeister]

Originally posted by JustinX
Sweet . . . I wasnt trying to be an ass or anything. Just trying to get things straight thats all, and I do know that the mantis is capable of seeing much more of the light spectrum than humans, like UV for example. If you ever find the article, please . . . post it! (I have a degree in neuroscience and am currently conducting research in the field, i love reading about marine life realted neuroscience!)
Thanks,
and again, i wasnt try to be mean or anything.
Justin

No problem man, I understand completely and appreciate the correction. I will hunt down the articles on this that I have read and create a new thread later. Keep an eye peeled for it.

 

[leigh]

Originally posted by ClarkiiBoi
DvSkin (in a different post) said that if it took time to "reload" (click/tapping wise) that it may be a pistol shrimp. Well, I have always said it takes a few minutes and then I hear 1 single tap---(a "reload"?) could it be a pistol shrimp? How bad are these?


DvSkin is a wise man--and that is the most classic indicator of the difference. Pistol shrimp sound similar--once you get a look at whatever it is it is easy to tell the difference by appearance. Pistol shrimp are more prone to burrowing in the sand--do you have any 'dug out' holes that you see near your rockwork? Manti are clicking as they dig out holes in the rock. (Once I found the rock mine was in I was AMAZED at the number of tunnels he had created--my starfish now loves that rock--his body will be in the center with each leg coming out a different tunnel). Pistol shrimp, however, are quite peaceful. I've heard some people claim they killed fish or inverts but I think those people were most likely confusing them with manti or catching a pistol shrimp that had scavenged up an already ill/dead fish. I also personally had no issues getting my mantis out of the rock. Once I pulled out the rock and stuck him in a bucket I started to walk with the bucket to my LFS (fishstore is close by)...well anyhow the jostling t-d him off and he hopped out of the rock and swam around. Once I stopped he went back to the rock so I found all I had to do was slosh the bucket around and once he bails quickly yank the rock out. Then I just had a mantis in a bucket. No harm no foul. Good luck!
-leigh

 

[clarkiiboi]

That's some in depth info Bonermeister, thanks. I do see 2 spots where the sand is more like a cave dug out under the rocks, not a hole though. 1 of these I know for sure is by my chromis---it's got a habit of making little caves and that one seems to be it's new home, the other I thought was from the chromis also, but have never seen it hang out there---maybe at night when I am not looking. Thanks though for the info.