Kalk/Vinegar? Tizzo?...... anybody?

[turningtim]

OK, I mixed my first batch of kalk w/ vinegar last night, 2 tsp kent kalk, 3 tsp 5% white vinegar and 1.5 gals of RO water. Everything seems well PH 8.2, alk 10, calc is still a little low at 380. But the thing that I noticed was a large amount of precip in the kalk container. From the article (Kalkwasser in depth) that I read about this procedure it says that I shouldn't have large amounts of precip anywhere.
Heres the question did I mix/stir to much and how much is to much?
Is this precip bad, good or indifferent?
I stir the vinegar and kalk in a plastic cup and then placed the cup in the container and poured the water in the cup until overflowing to mix water and solution. Then just remove the cup. I did let it set for an hour or two. but tonight I checked on the container and saw all this precip.......

Thanks for any input
Tim

 

[tizzo]

First off, 2 teaspoons of Kalk will be a lot!! Start with one half teaspoon of kalk and one tablespoon of vinager. Mix it like you did, then put it in the water, but from there you do not have to let it sit. You MUST slowly drip it into your tank, you cannot pour it in like you would a regular top off!! While it's dripping, it will be sitting and you will find precip on the bottum of the jug, but that is nothing to worry about.
I have never mixed 2 teaspoons of kalk so I am unsure how that would turnout.
Kind of off the subject, but have you checked your magnesium level?? If it's low, your calcium will never come up...
And Alk is a good number to have also. Since calcium and alk directly coincide with one another.

 

[turningtim]

Heres the numbers: PH= 8.2, ALK= 10dkh, CA=350 mg/l, MA= 1300mg/l, trate=.5 the rest are zero.
SG 1.025. I use Tropic Marin salt.
Kent kalk directions say max 1/2 tsp per quart. Also this article ("kalk in depth" wish I could find it and post link) says 1/2 tsp kalk to 1 tbls vinegar per quart of ro water. OK so what I did was have a container that holds 6 quarts. My evap is a little less that a gallon a day. So I used 3 tsp kalk, 6 tsp vinegar and 6 quarts of ro water. This keeps with the 1/2tsp per quart and I went light on the vinegar. Yes I'm dripping, I tested with just RO to get the drip rate down first for evap. I also have been dripping kalk for a couple of weeks and then happened to see a post that you had suggested vinegar, someone else gave me the link to the article.
Is this wrong? Are my proportions off? I understand the idea of the vinegar but what increases the strenght of the solution the vinegar or the amount of kalk.
Does any of this make any sense? I feel like I'm talking in circles?

Thanks Tizzo

Tim

 

[mudplayerx]

Careful with vinegar. I dosed a VERY small amount of vinegar with my kalk once and I got an explosion of furry, maroon algae. I have never used vinegar again.

 

[weberian]

I only used 1/2 tsp of Kent kalk per gallon several days in a row in a 30 gal main tank (plus 15 gal in the sump) and I overshot my calcium. It's about midway between 500 and 600 ppm now. Wasn't using any vinegar so I let it sit 3 hours before dripping. I guess I'm just going to sit and hope it goes down on its own. Maybe I shoud add buffer? My alk is between 7 and 8 dKH.

 

[weberian]

If you have the time for the solution to just sit three hours, AND you don't care about maximizing your yield of calcium, then I assume you would not need vinegar. However, if I had more calcium-consuming critters and IF I was going through a lot of kalk, then I WOULD want to use vinegar to get the most out of it, right? Am I understanding this right??

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
Heres the numbers: PH= 8.2, ALK= 10dkh, CA=350 mg/l, MA= 1300mg/l, trate=.5 the rest are zero.
SG 1.025. I use Tropic Marin salt.
Kent kalk directions say max 1/2 tsp per quart. Also this article ("kalk in depth" wish I could find it and post link) says 1/2 tsp kalk to 1 tbls vinegar per quart of ro water. OK so what I did was have a container that holds 6 quarts. My evap is a little less that a gallon a day. So I used 3 tsp kalk, 6 tsp vinegar and 6 quarts of ro water. This keeps with the 1/2tsp per quart and I went light on the vinegar. Yes I'm dripping, I tested with just RO to get the drip rate down first for evap. I also have been dripping kalk for a couple of weeks and then happened to see a post that you had suggested vinegar, someone else gave me the link to the article.
Is this wrong? Are my proportions off? I understand the idea of the vinegar but what increases the strenght of the solution the vinegar or the amount of kalk.
Does any of this make any sense? I feel like I'm talking in circles?

Thanks Tizzo

Tim
Just for something to do, you should raise your Mag a little. 1350 is good.
I understand your logic about the kalk but 2 teaspoons per gallon seems like a lot!!
The purpose of the vinager is to break down the calcium so that it does not precipitate in such a small amount of water. One gallon of water is not a lot for 2 or even 1 teaspoon of kalk. If, when you put it into your gallon sized jug, it doesn't cause flakes then you should be OK, if it does, use a little more vinager.
If the precip you have is a white film on the bottum of the jug, then that's normal and just about unavoidable, but if it's flakes (or snow flurries) then add a little more vinager.

 

[tizzo]

FYI, the kalk directions are for those who have the patience and equipment to mix it, let it sit for three hours, skim the top and use all but the sediment. I think you'd be able to use 5 teaspoons if if you went this route. But our quick kalk/ vinager method will hafta use a little less kalk, IMO

 

[turningtim]

This is what the article "Kalkwasser in depth" states about why you should add vinegar.
1. It will get more Calcium ions (Ca++) into the solution b/c you are dissolving the ca(OH)2 in an acid instead of water, and forming Calcium Acetate, which exists as a dissociated equilibrium of free Calcium ions and Acetate ions.
2. The Acetic Acid (vinegar) provides an equivalent of all the CO2 you need to avoid precipitating the newly-added Calcium ions as useless white Calcium Carbonate powder.
3 After the Calcium ion chemistry is over, the leftover Acetate ions from the broken-down vinegar leaves you with free organic Carbon in the water that feeds the bacteria in your tank so that it converts more trate to NO2........
It also states that there should be no sediment in the mix or very little so you don't have to wait before dripping. I guess simply put the desired reaction happens in the drip container and not in the tank itself. Right?
This says 1/2 tsp of kalk + 15mls of vinegar (1tbls) + 1 litre/quart of water.
For what ever reason my tank CHEWS UP calcium. I can get it up with calc adds but have to fight ALK side of things. This is why I went to kalk. Just trying to stop the yo-yo effect and getting the top-off done as well.
Thanks All
Tim

 

[turningtim]

I think you're right on Tiz (as usual). I just went over my calcs and they are WRONG! The kalk is right but the vinegar was to little. The ratio should be 1 part kalk (1/2 tsp) to 6 parts vinegar (1 tbls) so 1-6, I only had 1-1, 3 tsp- 2tbls.
Last night I did see some "snow" but, today nothing in the tank and way to much in the dripper.
Time to regroup! DUH!!!!

I blame things like this on my kids b/c they do cause me severe BRAIN DAMAGE!!

Thanks
Tim

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
I blame things like this on my kids b/c they do cause me severe BRAIN DAMAGE!!

Thanks
Tim
EXACTLY!! Blame the kids!! Them little brain suckin' money grubbin' yappin' runnin' crazy little fools!!!
I have 3, I knooooow what you mean, LOL.