Keeping Mandarins without a fuge?

wartooth1

wartooth1

Member
So I really, really like Mandarins, but I don't have a refugium (so growing copepods in a seperate area is impossible). I've read from a lot of sources that Mandarins are tough to keep alive because of this... but I there are live copepods available for purchase. So did I miss something? Wouldn't I be able to just place live copepods into the tank instead of growing them?
I was thinking I could put live copepods into the tank after feeding the fish their normal food, that way they probably won't eat them right away and that way the Mandarin(s) can eat them OR I could put copepod eggs into the tank at night when all the fish are in hiding, that way the egs can get into all the cracks and crevises of the rocks and have a good chance of hatching.
Would that work since I don't have a refugium?
 
jerth6932

jerth6932

Active Member
I take it that you are doing this in your 40g, right? If so doesn't it have a part in the back where water is pulled in, filtered and redistributed? Why don't you make that your fuge area? Peel the backing off, put a light on the back and throw some cheato/LR in there for pod production? Its what I use on my 24g. Pods aren't cheap to buy, and mandarins eat a lot of them a day....
 
wartooth1

wartooth1

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerth6932 http:///forum/thread/386573/keeping-mandarins-without-a-fuge#post_3396274
I take it that you are doing this in your 40g, right? If so doesn't it have a part in the back where water is pulled in, filtered and redistributed? Why don't you make that your fuge area? Peel the backing off, put a light on the back and throw some cheato/LR in there for pod production? Its what I use on my 24g. Pods aren't cheap to buy, and mandarins eat a lot of them a day....
I removed that part when I upgraded my filter and added my skimmer. I suppose if I really want too I could find a cheap nano cube on craigslist or something and use that as a pod incubator. How quickly do you think a single Mandarin could go through a package of live pods?
 
jerth6932

jerth6932

Active Member
Quote:
I suppose if I really want too I could find a cheap nano cube on craigslist or something and use that as a pod incubator.
Kinda a lot of work, and really expensive for a $15 fish isn't it (not being condescending, just thinking how much work you would put into ONE fish.....
)
Even though this is dancing around your question, it will be questions that will be asked: How much LR do you have in your tank in LBS? What fish do you have in the tank, that might compete for the pods?
These have baring on how long it will last due to natural pod production.
 
wartooth1

wartooth1

Member
Yeah that is a lot of work for just one little fish lol. As far as nano cubes go... I was thinking if somone listed one for less than $50 or if one was listed with some livestock and corals included it might be worth it.
As for your question, I currently have roughly 30 lbs of LR in the tank. The fish in the tank right now are a False Clown, a Blue/Green Chromis, a Firefish, and a Yellow Tail Damsel. The inverts in the tank currently are a Cleaner Shrimp, an Arrow Crab, a Tuxuito Urchin, 3 Turbo Snails, about a dozen of Hermit Crabs, and a Nasarrius snail (LR hitchiker).
 
jerth6932

jerth6932

Active Member

Yeah that is a lot of work for just one little fish lol. As far as nano cubes go... I was thinking if somone listed one for less than $50 or if one was listed with some livestock and corals included it might be worth it.

As for your question, I currently have roughly 30 lbs of LR in the tank. The fish in the tank right now are a False Clown, a Blue/Green Chromis, a Firefish, and a Yellow Tail Damsel. The inverts in the tank currently are a Cleaner Shrimp, an Arrow Crab, a Tuxuito Urchin, 3 Turbo Snails, about a dozen of Hermit Crabs, and a Nasarrius snail (LR hitchiker).
Actually getting another tank for pod production and make it a nice coral tank would be fun........ hard to transfer the pods imo....... but who wouldn't want another reason to get another tank!!!
Lr would ideally need to be upped over 50lbs, so natural production would keep pace with your mandi. Back corners you could add some cheato, hidden by rock scape, for pod production.... but it can get free and grow elsewhere.
Somthing else I failed to say, manderins do best in established setups of 6+ months. Just another thing 2 keep in mind.:cry:
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator
You have to seed the tank. You can't just add them at feedings. The tank needs to have a constant source of them as mandarins will graze on live rocks all day in search of pods. Adding one thing of pods won't work, the mandarin will make short work of them. Look into the hang on refugiums.
 
mx#28

mx#28

Active Member
Mandarins are actually a very hardy fish with the obvious - and very big - exception that they are prone to starvation. The biggest reason seems to be their ability to decimate live-food populations and their reluctance to accept non-live foods combined with their slow/steady eating habits. In other words - they rarely find enough food in our tanks to sustain them.
The most pragmatic solution, in my opinion, is to get them eating frozen food (variety is always best), feed them often (3-4 + times per day), and be sure their tank-mates aren't out-competing them. Having 'pods' in the tank is always good, but it's not impossible to keep a dragonette in a smaller tank, nor is it infallible to keep one in a large tank with a refugium.
ORA now has tank-raised dragonettes (this is very cool) - I would highly recommend going that route (they should accept frozen food right away), but only if you're willing/able to meet all of the fish's needs… otherwise it's doomed to a slow death.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX#28 http:///forum/thread/386573/keeping-mandarins-without-a-fuge#post_3396362
Mandarins are actually a very hardy fish with the obvious - and very big - exception that they are prone to starvation. The biggest reason seems to be a reluctance to accept non-live foods combined with their slow/steady eating habits. In other words - they rarely find enough food in our tanks to sustain them.
The most pragmatic solution, in my opinion, is to get them eating frozen food (variety is always best), feed them often (3-4 + times per day), and be sure their tank-mates aren't out-competing them. Having 'pods' in the tank is always good, but it's not impossible to keep a dragonette in a smaller tank, nor is it infallible to keep one in a large tank with a refugium.
ORA now has tank-raised dragonettes (this is very cool) - I would highly recommend going that route (they should accept frozen food right away), but only if you're willing/able to meet all of the fish's needs… otherwise it's doomed to a slow death.
+1
The ORA's are probably a better way for you to go. They are bred and raised from birth to eat frozen foods. A little more expensive but easier to keep alive.
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator
Many people are complaining that even though the ORA mandarins eat frozen, many are still starving because there aren't enough pods for their health to be sustained long term.
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator

... clearly meaning that the aquarists are not supplying enough food or enough nutrition. Getting them to eat frozen is only one step.
 
 
Yes. Too many people go, "oooh, my mandarin eats frozen, I don't have to worry about pods" and then their fish just withers away.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Probably a good idea to supply a food with pods in it. I know my lfs has had success keeping the mandarins in their display tank with the rods food which is what I use. Seeding with "live" certain couldn't hurt either.
I've seen folks online making pod piles or pod condos... Essentially creating some piles of rock work that the mandarins can't penetrated into, thus giving them a area or refuge spot to be able to breed without being totally decimated. Any little thing you could do to help would be beneficial. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f76/diy-pod-condos-92373.html?highlight=pod+condo
 
wartooth1

wartooth1

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/386573/keeping-mandarins-without-a-fuge#post_3396414
Probably a good idea to supply a food with pods in it. I know my lfs has had success keeping the mandarins in their display tank with the rods food which is what I use. Seeding with "live" certain couldn't hurt either.
I've seen folks online making pod piles or pod condos... Essentially creating some piles of rock work that the mandarins can't penetrated into, thus giving them a area or refuge spot to be able to breed without being totally decimated. Any little thing you could do to help would be beneficial. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f76/diy-pod-condos-92373.html?highlight=pod+condo
Thanks 2Quills! That is a great idea! BTW, is it wrong that as soon as I finished reading that article, the first thing that popped in my head was the Geico commerical "It's so simple, even a caveman can do it!" lol
 
wartooth1

wartooth1

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///forum/thread/386573/keeping-mandarins-without-a-fuge#post_3396344
You have to seed the tank. You can't just add them at feedings. The tank needs to have a constant source of them as mandarins will graze on live rocks all day in search of pods. Adding one thing of pods won't work, the mandarin will make short work of them. Look into the hang on refugiums.
Yeah I might be able to do a HOB fuge... the company that makes my skimmer also has a fuge that fits onto the skimmer like a puzzle piece so that could work.
 
mx#28

mx#28

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///forum/thread/386573/keeping-mandarins-without-a-fuge#post_3396411
Yes. Too many people go, "oooh, my mandarin eats frozen, I don't have to worry about pods" and then their fish just withers away.
Agreed. Same as too many also assume that a larger tank / good starting pod population / refugium / etc will also guarantee long term success only to see the same sad result over a year or two. The trick (to any species) is directly and constantly addressing their needs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wartooth1 http:///forum/thread/386573/keeping-mandarins-without-a-fuge#post_3396474
Yeah I might be able to do a HOB fuge... the company that makes my skimmer also has a fuge that fits onto the skimmer like a puzzle piece so that could work.
Following my theme here: The refugium is a good thing, but don't rely soley on it. Make absolute sure that you're supplying the fish with enough food (that it's actually getting) - check out feeding stations and other ways of getting food to this slow eating (and poor competeting) fish.
 
gemmy

gemmy

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wartooth1 http:///forum/thread/386573/keeping-mandarins-without-a-fuge#post_3396474
Yeah I might be able to do a HOB fuge... the company that makes my skimmer also has a fuge that fits onto the skimmer like a puzzle piece so that could work.
On my 55 this is what I have to help sustain my mandarin:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
HOB fuge with chaeto this is where I seed the copepods.
[*]
Seed the tank with pods every 1-3 months
Converted my mandi to eat frozen. Whenever I feed the tank, I target feed my mandi since it hangs out in the same spot of the tank. I target feed this area 3 times a day and the mandi devours the food.
[/list type=decimal]
This is working for my mandi and it is even a little on the pudgy side.
 
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