kick ick?
- Thread starter mlt
- Start date
lesleybird
Active Member
No, I have used this product many times and it never turned the water cloudy. Lesley
mlt
Member
Tank has cycled, but I have noticed alot of algea the last few days. I just started to use the kick ick and need to add second dose today. How log before I notice an improvement if this does work? I only have a few fish with a few spots and it just started so the LSF suggested I try this first. I am feeding flake food everyday but once or twice a week I feed frozen or fresh brine shrimp. My QT is not large enough to Q all my fish at once and I have inverts so I cant"t try hydpro. I really wish I would have found this site sooner and I wouldn't have try to rush so fast. I learned so much from this site. Thanks to everyone who has helped me.!
joe carey
Member
Terry is DEFINITELY RIGHT! I tried a few "reef safe" treatments that did not work on the Ich and killed most of my snails. (Marine Max - which didn't really seem to harm anything and Greenex - nasty stuff!) The fish also developed a bacterial infection while being treated with the Greenex. I now have them all in a QT and between Spectrogram for the infection and Hyposalinity for the Ich, they are doing great. They were all clear in just a few days, but I am keeping them in QT for a full 30. I was lucky enough not to lose any fish. I'm not familiar with "Kick Ich", but if it's anything like any other reef safe treatments, I would be surprised if it works and doesn't kill something in your tank. Wish you the best of luck.
mlt
Member
Thank you everyone! I did get a QT w/heater and filter-no light yet. I am going to the LFS today and will check out lighting. What kind of Meds do I need to buy-just to have on hand? I do live a distance from my LSF and I want to be prepared. I have only 2 fish with ick spots-so I plan on putting them in the QT and treat-and then continue to treat the rest of the tank with the kick ick and hope that none of my other fish end up with anything.
Does this sound like an ok plan? Also-I do not have time to paint the bottom of my QT black right now-If I place the tank on a piece of dark blue cloth will that work for right now?
Does this sound like an ok plan? Also-I do not have time to paint the bottom of my QT black right now-If I place the tank on a piece of dark blue cloth will that work for right now?
lesleybird
Active Member
Originally posted by jlem
Why have you had to use it so many times?
Because I have bought a lot of new fish that turned up with ich.
lesleybird
Active Member
Originally posted by fshhub
lesley, do you have a QT tank? I think that is more his/her question. IF things were handled properly(even with new sickly additions), you should not have needed it even once.
maybe for other reasons, but not for ich.
Yes, I used it in the quaranteen tank and then in the main tank when I bought a large majestic angelfish that would have been too stressed in a 25 gallon quarenteen tank so I put him and another new fish into the main display. The Kick curred the ich. I guess it just works for me? Or maybe some of you need to keep more of an open mind and read how I use it when it has worked. Maybe the ones that it has not worked for are not using it like I have suggested. Lesley
jlem
Active Member
Originally posted by Lesleybird
Or maybe some of you need to keep more of an open mind and read how I use it when it has worked. Maybe the ones that it has not worked for are not using it like I have suggested. Lesley
Your exact post was that you have used this product many times, and you have bought a lot of new fish that turned up with ICH.
We would not need an open mind to figure out how you used KICK ICH with the info you gave us. We would need mental telepathy which is quite rare. Got to give the facts unless you want people to assume.
125intx
Member
I will have to agree with Terry, KI did not work for me. Hypo is the only thing that has worked for me. It is a real pain in the arse, but it does work. Make sure you READ and REREAD everything you can about hypo before you start. Good Luck!!!
Here is a bit of the sticky on hypo.
NOTE: This procedure can not be performed in an environment containing live rock, live sand or inverts [including crabs, corals, etc.] If you have a strictly Fish-Only setup, then the treatment can be done within the display, otherwise, you will need to treat infected fish in a quarantine/hospital tank.
You will need: Refractometer or a glass hydrometer calibrated to tank temperatures, pH buffers, a tank or quarantine area for the infected fish that is adequately filtered.
Hyposalinity is a procedure involving lowering the salinity from normal tank levels to 14 ppt (1.009 Specific Gravity) over the course of 48 hours. This is done by doing a series of small water changes using fresh dechlorinated water. During the procedure, pH must be closely monitored as pH tends to drop as water become less saline. Fish are maintained in hyposaline conditions for three weeks after all symptoms are gone. Again, accurate measuring is essential, and the standard swing arm hydrometers are not going to work. A refractometer or large glass lab grade hydrometer calibrated to tank temperatures is needed. Once the fish have been asymptotic for three weeks, the salinity is then raised back to display tank levels over the course of a week. Fish can not tolerate rapid increases in salinity. Leave the fish in quarantine at display tank levels for another week.
Your display will now have been fishless for at least four weeks, sufficient time to allow the parasite’s life cycle to be interrupted. ****** is an obligate parasite that requires a fish host. No fish=No host=No parasite. Ich is a fish-only parasite, it will not affect inverts.
Continue to monitor pH daily during the process and be prepared with buffers to address any pH problems. Also keep the water clean through proper filtration.
Refractometer Info by broomer5
Temperature does matter when using a refractometer with ATC Automatic Temperature Compensation. But in most every case ...... only when we calibrate it.
Refractometers used to measure salinity have an optical glass prizm inside.
As light enters the prizm, the light is bent.
This light is bent and projected through to the eyepiece, where we see the upper and lower color line, as it's projected through the scale graduations.
We place a sample of our tankwater on the glass prizm, flip down the light diffusing lid, and allow light to shine through the device.
The amount the light is bent, is a direct result of how much "stuff" is in the sample.
The stuff in this case is salt ( and all the other minerals and elements in our saltwater ).
When we look at pure water - the light is not bent much.
When we look at saltwater - the light is bent more.
The whole thing about using these types of refractometers, and getting good accurate results, is by following the calibration procedure.
When we calibrate it - we place a few drops of distilled water on the prizm. Then we MUST allow this distilled water to come to the same temperature of the refractometer. Normally this is 68 degrees F.
The device is built to be calibrated at 68 degrees F.
If you calibrate it with distilled water at any other temperature - then you will introduce error into the calibration procedure.
Basically - you'd be calibrating it to a different temperature than it was designed for. This would give you false readings every time you used it from that point on.
It's the room temperature that the refractometer is kept in, and used in, that is important when you calibrate it with distilled water.
The drops of distilled water will become whatever temperature the unit is. In other words - you place a few drops of distilled water on the prizm that is already at 68 F.
The drops will either warm up to or cool down to 68 F rather quickly.
Then, after a short period of time, you zero the device by turning the screw to align the scale's 1.00 SG and 0.0 ppt to line up with the two color boundary line. We shift the scale when we calibrate it.
As long as you do this calibration at 68 F, then you're good to go.
Afterwards - should the room temperature that you keep and use your refractometer stay within the 50 to 86 degrees F range, then the ATC auto temp compensation will adjust the reading for you. It's the room temperature ( refractometer temperature ) not the tankwater temperature that is temperature compensated and corrected.
The ATC is just another piece of glass ( prizm ) inside the unit that bends the light backdown. It sort of bends the light in the opposite direction as the main prizm. Not very much - just a little.
This feature "corrects" the image as the scale is viewed through the eyepiece. But again .... this auto temp compensation will only correct the reading we see if the refractometer and sample are at a temperature between 50 to 86 F.
Both salinity ppt and specific gravity "readings" are affected by temperature when using a refractometer. They have to be - they are on the same scale.
The salinity of the tankwater is not greatly affected by temperature, within the ranges we keep our aquariums. That tankwater contains so many parts per thousand of salt no matter what the temperature.
It's when we try to measure it, or convert this ppt into the specific gravity scale ...... that's when temperature comes into play.
Salinity in PPT or parts per thousand is just that.
Seawater is normally around 35 parts per thousand.
If you had 3500 pounds of saltwater, and boiled off all the water, you'd be left with 35 pounds of salts.
Specific gravity is not the same at all.
Specific gravity is a comparison of the saltwater to that of pure water.
Pure water having a specific gravity of 1.000
If you take 1 milliliter of pure water ( 1 cubic centimeter or cc ) and weigh it ...... it would weigh exactly 1.000 grams at 68 F.
If you take 1 milliliter of saltwater ( 1 cubic centimeter or cc ) and weigh it ..... it would weigh more than 1.000 grams at 68 F.
Why would it weigh more ? Because there's more stuff in it than just water. Theres' salt in there too, along with the pure water.
So it's going to weigh a little more. It's going to weigh 1.0XX
XX being the weight of the salt in that little cubic centimeter box.
How much more it weighs ? It all depends.
It depends on the actual amount of salt and minerals dissolved in the sample .... and it depends on the temperature. Now we're talking about density. How much stuff is dissolved in the water.
And the density of a given volume of liquid changes as the temperature changes.
If you're using a refractometer with ATC - and calibrate it right - and stay within the 50 to 86 F range, then you need not worry.
If you're using a refractometer without ATC - you still must calibrate it right ....... but you'll need a chart to correct the reading to the temperature of the sample.
If you are using either a floating or swing arm hydrometer - then you MUST know what temperature it has been calibrated at ( designed at ) and what the temperature of your tankwater is at the time you measure.
Then you look at a chart that plots temperature vs specific gravity - and determine the actual salinity in ppt.
Also realize that there are refractometers used to measure other liquids as well .... and some of them are designed to be calibrated/used at temperatures other than 68 F
Here is a bit of the sticky on hypo.
NOTE: This procedure can not be performed in an environment containing live rock, live sand or inverts [including crabs, corals, etc.] If you have a strictly Fish-Only setup, then the treatment can be done within the display, otherwise, you will need to treat infected fish in a quarantine/hospital tank.
You will need: Refractometer or a glass hydrometer calibrated to tank temperatures, pH buffers, a tank or quarantine area for the infected fish that is adequately filtered.
Hyposalinity is a procedure involving lowering the salinity from normal tank levels to 14 ppt (1.009 Specific Gravity) over the course of 48 hours. This is done by doing a series of small water changes using fresh dechlorinated water. During the procedure, pH must be closely monitored as pH tends to drop as water become less saline. Fish are maintained in hyposaline conditions for three weeks after all symptoms are gone. Again, accurate measuring is essential, and the standard swing arm hydrometers are not going to work. A refractometer or large glass lab grade hydrometer calibrated to tank temperatures is needed. Once the fish have been asymptotic for three weeks, the salinity is then raised back to display tank levels over the course of a week. Fish can not tolerate rapid increases in salinity. Leave the fish in quarantine at display tank levels for another week.
Your display will now have been fishless for at least four weeks, sufficient time to allow the parasite’s life cycle to be interrupted. ****** is an obligate parasite that requires a fish host. No fish=No host=No parasite. Ich is a fish-only parasite, it will not affect inverts.
Continue to monitor pH daily during the process and be prepared with buffers to address any pH problems. Also keep the water clean through proper filtration.
Refractometer Info by broomer5
Temperature does matter when using a refractometer with ATC Automatic Temperature Compensation. But in most every case ...... only when we calibrate it.
Refractometers used to measure salinity have an optical glass prizm inside.
As light enters the prizm, the light is bent.
This light is bent and projected through to the eyepiece, where we see the upper and lower color line, as it's projected through the scale graduations.
We place a sample of our tankwater on the glass prizm, flip down the light diffusing lid, and allow light to shine through the device.
The amount the light is bent, is a direct result of how much "stuff" is in the sample.
The stuff in this case is salt ( and all the other minerals and elements in our saltwater ).
When we look at pure water - the light is not bent much.
When we look at saltwater - the light is bent more.
The whole thing about using these types of refractometers, and getting good accurate results, is by following the calibration procedure.
When we calibrate it - we place a few drops of distilled water on the prizm. Then we MUST allow this distilled water to come to the same temperature of the refractometer. Normally this is 68 degrees F.
The device is built to be calibrated at 68 degrees F.
If you calibrate it with distilled water at any other temperature - then you will introduce error into the calibration procedure.
Basically - you'd be calibrating it to a different temperature than it was designed for. This would give you false readings every time you used it from that point on.
It's the room temperature that the refractometer is kept in, and used in, that is important when you calibrate it with distilled water.
The drops of distilled water will become whatever temperature the unit is. In other words - you place a few drops of distilled water on the prizm that is already at 68 F.
The drops will either warm up to or cool down to 68 F rather quickly.
Then, after a short period of time, you zero the device by turning the screw to align the scale's 1.00 SG and 0.0 ppt to line up with the two color boundary line. We shift the scale when we calibrate it.
As long as you do this calibration at 68 F, then you're good to go.
Afterwards - should the room temperature that you keep and use your refractometer stay within the 50 to 86 degrees F range, then the ATC auto temp compensation will adjust the reading for you. It's the room temperature ( refractometer temperature ) not the tankwater temperature that is temperature compensated and corrected.
The ATC is just another piece of glass ( prizm ) inside the unit that bends the light backdown. It sort of bends the light in the opposite direction as the main prizm. Not very much - just a little.
This feature "corrects" the image as the scale is viewed through the eyepiece. But again .... this auto temp compensation will only correct the reading we see if the refractometer and sample are at a temperature between 50 to 86 F.
Both salinity ppt and specific gravity "readings" are affected by temperature when using a refractometer. They have to be - they are on the same scale.
The salinity of the tankwater is not greatly affected by temperature, within the ranges we keep our aquariums. That tankwater contains so many parts per thousand of salt no matter what the temperature.
It's when we try to measure it, or convert this ppt into the specific gravity scale ...... that's when temperature comes into play.
Salinity in PPT or parts per thousand is just that.
Seawater is normally around 35 parts per thousand.
If you had 3500 pounds of saltwater, and boiled off all the water, you'd be left with 35 pounds of salts.
Specific gravity is not the same at all.
Specific gravity is a comparison of the saltwater to that of pure water.
Pure water having a specific gravity of 1.000
If you take 1 milliliter of pure water ( 1 cubic centimeter or cc ) and weigh it ...... it would weigh exactly 1.000 grams at 68 F.
If you take 1 milliliter of saltwater ( 1 cubic centimeter or cc ) and weigh it ..... it would weigh more than 1.000 grams at 68 F.
Why would it weigh more ? Because there's more stuff in it than just water. Theres' salt in there too, along with the pure water.
So it's going to weigh a little more. It's going to weigh 1.0XX
XX being the weight of the salt in that little cubic centimeter box.
How much more it weighs ? It all depends.
It depends on the actual amount of salt and minerals dissolved in the sample .... and it depends on the temperature. Now we're talking about density. How much stuff is dissolved in the water.
And the density of a given volume of liquid changes as the temperature changes.
If you're using a refractometer with ATC - and calibrate it right - and stay within the 50 to 86 F range, then you need not worry.
If you're using a refractometer without ATC - you still must calibrate it right ....... but you'll need a chart to correct the reading to the temperature of the sample.
If you are using either a floating or swing arm hydrometer - then you MUST know what temperature it has been calibrated at ( designed at ) and what the temperature of your tankwater is at the time you measure.
Then you look at a chart that plots temperature vs specific gravity - and determine the actual salinity in ppt.
Also realize that there are refractometers used to measure other liquids as well .... and some of them are designed to be calibrated/used at temperatures other than 68 F
motoreef
New Member
I'm sort of skeptical too... about "reef-safe" ich medications. It seems most of them do not state the ingredients on the lebel even, which scares me a lot.
However, in one occasion I did try "ICH*ATTACK" by Kordon, in my 57 gallon reef setup.
This, since I "really" didn't want to disassemble my established reef rocks and some inexpensive but happy soft corals to chase after the fish for a QT. I thought I'd give it a go since fish seemed happier in the reef than in a bare tank with all his mates in close proximity and without much hiding places.
I keep 3 common tangs, purple tang, powder brown Japanese tang, and a hippo blue tang...the 3 victims of ich this time. The two sand gobies and the single clownfish seemed to be somewhat more immune.
The result was mixed...
Ich was gone and never came back in the last several months and all fish and inverts did survive, including cleaner shrimps that often do not make it through any form of chemical madness.
What I can't prove though, is if the fish was tough enough to shake them on their own with some garlic dosed foods, or if the "Kordon ICH ATTACK" additive actually had an effect on the eradication.
I'm assuming the combination of both and I never really thought or researched about it much after this incident.
I believe the same with all the experts here though, since I am no doctor or paid scientist; that best way to fight "ich" in a more immediate and permanent solution is, of course, copper or other 100% proven ways. This is if one needs to be POSITIVE that it's gone. (of course, in a Quarantine Tank!)
In my case, it was more a battle and a decision, to figure out...if the very crowded QT tank for long duration was healthier than leaving them in a normally therapeutic reef and seeing if they can shake it on their own with some help from me (with addition of reef-safe chemical meds and garlic laced foods)... I chose the latter, and this time I was lucky (I am assuming).
But I can't say if I will recommend this, or if I can even repeat the same results... Reef Tanks can rock on or whither away for a million reasons, and for me, I won...just this time, that's my view.
The odds it seems, from the results of lots of others...is probably as good as Vegas blackjack game though, for "reef-safe" medications (additives). It seems somewhat relatively safe, but effectiveness...I can't say yes or no.
However, in one occasion I did try "ICH*ATTACK" by Kordon, in my 57 gallon reef setup.
This, since I "really" didn't want to disassemble my established reef rocks and some inexpensive but happy soft corals to chase after the fish for a QT. I thought I'd give it a go since fish seemed happier in the reef than in a bare tank with all his mates in close proximity and without much hiding places.
I keep 3 common tangs, purple tang, powder brown Japanese tang, and a hippo blue tang...the 3 victims of ich this time. The two sand gobies and the single clownfish seemed to be somewhat more immune.
The result was mixed...
Ich was gone and never came back in the last several months and all fish and inverts did survive, including cleaner shrimps that often do not make it through any form of chemical madness.
What I can't prove though, is if the fish was tough enough to shake them on their own with some garlic dosed foods, or if the "Kordon ICH ATTACK" additive actually had an effect on the eradication.
I'm assuming the combination of both and I never really thought or researched about it much after this incident.
I believe the same with all the experts here though, since I am no doctor or paid scientist; that best way to fight "ich" in a more immediate and permanent solution is, of course, copper or other 100% proven ways. This is if one needs to be POSITIVE that it's gone. (of course, in a Quarantine Tank!)
In my case, it was more a battle and a decision, to figure out...if the very crowded QT tank for long duration was healthier than leaving them in a normally therapeutic reef and seeing if they can shake it on their own with some help from me (with addition of reef-safe chemical meds and garlic laced foods)... I chose the latter, and this time I was lucky (I am assuming).
But I can't say if I will recommend this, or if I can even repeat the same results... Reef Tanks can rock on or whither away for a million reasons, and for me, I won...just this time, that's my view.
The odds it seems, from the results of lots of others...is probably as good as Vegas blackjack game though, for "reef-safe" medications (additives). It seems somewhat relatively safe, but effectiveness...I can't say yes or no.
sepulatian
Moderator
Hey Moto, this post is from 2003. You may want to start your own thread. By the way, Welcome to the boards!!