learned alot, still confused

[sparky101]

iv'e been reading posts on this site for a couple weeks now, and im still confused on some things.
im as green as green can get when it comes to saltwater, but after studying I have made a few decisions. I'm going to go with either a 46g bowfront, or a 55g. I'm wanting to do a FOWLR setup and maybe move to a reef tank later down the road. I plan on putting down a thick sand bed for bio filtration and a good amount of lr also. I would like to try to keep agressive fish such as lions, and triggers. Now for my questions
I've heard that for bulk i can use play sand from Home
Depot and similar stores, and top with live sand. Is this smart, safe, positives and negatives?
Are there any sort of corals, mushrooms, zoos and etc, that I can sustain under normal light conditions, such as single or dual flourescent fixture?
Would I need a protein skimmer or not? Iv'e heard they are almost required in keeping a reef aquarium, but heard mixed things about FO tanks.
Filters, should i go with sump/fuge, or canister and bio-wheel style? Iv'e read that sump/fuge is the only way to go but I have money restrictions, so I would like to keep this project fairly inexpensive while still creating the healthiest environmet for the tank.
Thanks for all you help

 

[snipe]

I've heard that for bulk i can use play sand from Home
Depot and similar stores, and top with live sand. Is this smart, safe, positives and negatives?
(depends on what type of sand it is. What is the name of the sand at your local home depot?)
Are there any sort of corals, mushrooms, zoos and etc, that I can sustain under normal light conditions, such as single or dual flourescent fixture?
(there are a few type of mushrooms and polyps that dont need mutch light but as far as sps and leathers go it wouldnt really work with normal output.)
Would I need a protein skimmer or not? Iv'e heard they are almost required in keeping a reef aquarium, but heard mixed things about FO tanks.
(You dont have to with a fo but it wouldnt hurt to have the extra filtration.)
Filters, should i go with sump/fuge, or canister and bio-wheel style? Iv'e read that sump/fuge is the only way to go but I have money restrictions, so I would like to keep this project fairly inexpensive while still creating the healthiest environmet for the tank.
(It really depends on what you can afford. With a fishonly a canister filter would be plenty)
Oh also if your going to keep triggers you will need a bigger tank than a 46 or 55 I think they reguire like 70 gallons or more. And only 1 inch of adult fish per 5 gallons so in a 55 you could have 11 inches of fish.

 

[wocoi]

I have a question to what you said, snipe... You say 1 inch to every 5 gallons... does this apply to a 180 gallon tank?
Thanks

 

[sparky101]

true, i remember reading about the 1 inch per 5 gallons, i guess i just didn't pu 2 and 2 together.
Ok , so triggers are out of the question. What about the lion, are there other compatible fish to keep with lions in a 55g. If not could i get some good options on more doscile fish?

 

[snipe]

The 1 inch rule applies to all size tanks that I know of.
There are many fish that will work with lions. There are anglers and wrasses and all kinds of stuff. You just need to go to a source online that sells fish and look through them and see what you like and if they will work.

 

[jacknjill]

Originally posted by wocoi
I have a question to what you said, snipe... You say 1 inch to every 5 gallons... does this apply to a 180 gallon tank?
Thanks
what do you mean?

 

[mudplayerx]

Here's my 2 cents:
You can use playsand as long as there are no additives and the individual grains are the correct size. Anything less than 1mm or over 2mm is generally frowned upon. Less than 1mm will compact and become hardl ike concrete over the years and easily clouds the water when disturbed. Over 2mm creates pockets which trap detritous and raise your nitrate level.
As far as the agresive fish, their size is going to limit you more than their temperment. The lionfish may need the 55 gallon all to himselvf depending on which species you get. Even a 55 gallon may be too small for an adult lionfish of one of the bigger species. The best way to keep agressive fish is to have a school of the same kind so they take turns picking on different members of the group and no one fish suffers. This severely limits you to the smaller fish like damsels.
As for corals, I would shy away from those until you are ready to do some heavy investment in lighting. This is not to say that you can't keep some of the soft corals and some mushrooms, but odds are you are going to see something you want in the store that your lighting won't fully support. Many lfs's have unscrupulous salespeople and they may tell you the thing you want will survive with your lights, but it will slowly die.
Also, with corals and mushrooms and such, you will need a nice support network of live rock for them to rest on. That being said, this will take up much of the room you want to utilize for your fish. This poses an additional two problems. You fish may dine on your inverts, and you will want to get a protein skimmer.
I would get a protein skimmer no matter what you put in the tank, actually. You can get a rather inexpensive one that works well if you do your research. I recommend you get a venturi-style skimmer and not an airstone driven one. The airstone-driven ones are less effective and the costs of constantly replacing the limewood airstones will eventually outweigh the more expensive venturi-style ones. If you have live rock/corals/inverts/etc you are going to want good turnover (water flow) in your tank, so you might as well kill two birds with one stone and buy a skimmer.
I would get a sump/fuge if I were you. However, these are totally unnecessary in a 55 gallon tank. What it will allow you to do is hide all your equipment under the tank, and is a good place to put additives in the water. Rule of thumb is a sump is always better than no sump. Buy a predrilled tank or one with a overflow box already in it. If you can only get ahold of a tank without an overflow/predrill, I wouldn't even bother with a sump.
Hope this helps. I'm bored at work with nothing better to do then clog up these boards with my rambling.

 

[sparky101]

no, the rambling helps, really. The 55g i want to get belongs to my friend who currently uses it as a FW setup. It has no pre-drills or overflow. Im just kinda scared at the doing the whole sump/fuge idea since i've never done anything like this before. I wanted to stick with the simplest way to set things up without compromising the quality of the tank.
Also, how much gph should i need for a 55g? Advice on pwr heads, skimmers, filters.
I'm thinking of doing this...
55g tank
thick sand bed
live rock (per lbs/gal)
canister filter (? on brand)
hob filter (emperor 400 or other bio-wheel style)
protein skimmer (if i can afford)
2 pwr heads (? on brand)
300w heater
dual flour light (? on bulb styles)
Does this sound ok? Anything I should add, remove?
Thanks for everyones help. This board rocks!
:happy:

 

[snipe]

55g tank "good way to start"
thick sand bed "best way to go"
live rock (per lbs/gal) "anywhere from .5 to 2.5 lbs per gallon depending on how dense the rock is"
canister filter (? on brand)"Eheim or Mag canister filters are what I see everyone useing "especially the mags"
hob filter (emperor 400 or other bio-wheel style)"There alright but now all ppl say they are"
protein skimmer (if i can afford)"I would make room in my budget to afford it"
2 pwr heads (? on brand)"maxijet is what everyone sais to get but I like the jebo ap1500 "for my use' it dont have the big suction cups hanging out past the powerhead there right behind it"
300w heater"Go titanium there the best"
dual flour light (? on bulb styles)"If your going normal output then get 50/50 bulbs they will brighten your tank up better than just one or the other.

 

[sparky101]

well after posting my last thread I read up on lighting and have decided to go with HO OR VHO. This way I can keep some types of polyps and mushrooms.
Also, how much water flow should i have running through my tank (gph)?
And is it best to have water movement throughout the whole tank, as is in no place should have stationary h2O?

 

[swnewb]

Like you am a green horn at this stuff, but I will try to help you with what little I have picked up here so far.
As far as turn over, you want at a very minimum 10X turn over. With corals and the like, you want closer to 20X turnover.
I would go VHO if money doesn't allow for MH. I just got two VHO ballasts the other day for $80 total. I am going to do a DIY light strip that will allow me to install 4 36" tubes at 96 watts each for a total of 384 watts on a 65 gallon tank, so I am good on most of the stuff I like.
You want to avoid dead spots as it will allow debris to settle in those areas causing water problems. You might want areas of less flow, but not no flow areas.
Powerheads, I am a fan of the aquaclears. I also love their filters. I am running a 500 filter on my tank and I have a 70 and two 4000's for powerheads. That is giving me close to 1200gph before I add a skimmer.
Skimmers, you will hear ALOT of opinions on this subject. Mine is get the most skimmer that you can afford. I would rather spend more today and be done with it than have to spend alittle today, alittle more in 6 months, alittle more 6 months after that......see what I am saying. If you have to, save up. You can geat a really good skimmer for around $150. You can get a CPR Bak-pak new for that or less if you hit "the auction" site or you can get an Aquac Remora used for that price or less. Those seem to be the two most reccomended skimmers.
For LR, do your research on where to get it. Online will likely give you the best price and best selection. If you email me, I can turn you on to a great place that has awesome rock and sand that they sell by the pound and will bend over backwards to give you what you ask for if you request specific shapes or sizes.
Hope this helps alittle.
Chad cashton@hotmail.com