LED'S ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!

242bats

242bats

Member
thanks corey thay will have them in 6 weeks, but thay WILL have the drivers so i will go with that. i have something that i can do with the eln's, for now i will leave it all on the tank.
i am going this way because i do not wont to rewire the LED'S!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks alot for all of your help
david
LED'S ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Hmmmm I'll have to call Robert tomorrow. He assured me they would be in the 15th of July!!!! 15 to be exact.
 
monsinour

monsinour

Active Member
Just reading this now and I think I had a solution to the problem. Since the amp draw at initial turn on was a problem and not the amp draw during actual operatino, onse simple device (probably an ******** of them) would have worked and could have made this easier.
In the realm of car stereo, when playing music really loud, a ton of power is required to make the base notes really hit. Most amplifiers draw current from the battery to produce those notes but when there isnt enough juice in the battery and the alternator is already making the car go, you get what I call the disco car lights effect. To prevent this from happening, capacitors (or multiple caps) are placed inline between the battery and the amps on the hot side ofthe power delivery. I would imagine a few fards of capacitors would be needed for the entire system. Maybe wire up a half fard cap for each driver. The cap would provide the extra amps needed for power up and would take the load off of the house wiring.
The best example I can give you is when your house lights dim when your refrigerator kicks on. The compressor in the fridge needs the extra juice to get started but doesnt need it to actually run. The house lights dim as the power is diverted to the fridge. Installing a cap on the fridge would solve this problem. However, the companies who are in the business of selling devices that would solve this problem want you to purchase them for your electronic devices as opposed to your fridge. You would only need one on your fridge but in my case, I would need atleast 3 for my PC setup, living room entertainment setup, and one for the tank setup. The company makes more selling 3 than 1.
Anyone think I am totally out of my mind with the capacitor idea?
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/386777/led-s-are-the-best/40#post_3403705
Just reading this now and I think I had a solution to the problem. Since the amp draw at initial turn on was a problem and not the amp draw during actual operatino, onse simple device (probably an assload of them) would have worked and could have made this easier.
In the realm of car stereo, when playing music really loud, a ton of power is required to make the base notes really hit. Most amplifiers draw current from the battery to produce those notes but when there isnt enough juice in the battery and the alternator is already making the car go, you get what I call the disco car lights effect. To prevent this from happening, capacitors (or multiple caps) are placed inline between the battery and the amps on the hot side ofthe power delivery. I would imagine a few fards of capacitors would be needed for the entire system. Maybe wire up a half fard cap for each driver. The cap would provide the extra amps needed for power up and would take the load off of the house wiring.
The best example I can give you is when your house lights dim when your refrigerator kicks on. The compressor in the fridge needs the extra juice to get started but doesnt need it to actually run. The house lights dim as the power is diverted to the fridge. Installing a cap on the fridge would solve this problem. However, the companies who are in the business of selling devices that would solve this problem want you to purchase them for your electronic devices as opposed to your fridge. You would only need one on your fridge but in my case, I would need atleast 3 for my PC setup, living room entertainment setup, and one for the tank setup. The company makes more selling 3 than 1.
Anyone think I am totally out of my mind with the capacitor idea?
The issue isn't that they aren't getting enough amps to fire up. It's more about the current that those capacitors pull in order to charge up before initial operation begins. It can be huge depending on how many drivers you are trying to fire up at one time. But the inrush current is really the least of concerns as that really only happens for a fraction of a second. The bigger issue is the high harmonic frequencies that those driver produce when you stack a bunch of them on one fixture. They arent equiped with built in power factor correction. So it's really more about the long term effects of heat on the houses wiring and the problems that can come from the harmonic distortion on other electrical devices on the circuit or in the home and or communication lines.
Not sure if the capacitor idea would do anything in regards to the inrush or not, I don't know anyone who's ever tried it.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I'm following the logic on the capacitors Monsinour, but the bottom line is how efficient is it? You just added cost to the whole build project for 1, and on top of that extra clutter to hide, which isn't always easy for some, and the shielding or protecting them from the elements they would be subjected to in the hobby.
 
monsinour

monsinour

Active Member
This is a premium 1 fard cap designed for car installation.
http://www.creativecaraudio.net/products/productdetail/part_number=PFC1M/3266.0?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleshopping
It talks about volts and storage of volts but it is storing amps as well. It chargest practically instalntly and discharges instantly. Back when I sold these things, they were far more expensive and didnt have the volt meters on them. I searched for 1 fard as that is a more common size in car audio. I would imagine half fards are cheaper and smaller, but its not like this thing is monsterously huge.
edit: If THD is a problem and we are going over 60 hz, then I suggest connecting the lights to a APC UPS battery unit. It will condition the line so that anything over 60 hz will not pass back through it to the socket in the wall.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/386777/led-s-are-the-best/40#post_3403864
This is a premium 1 fard cap designed for car installation.
http://www.creativecaraudio.net/products/productdetail/part_number=PFC1M/3266.0?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleshopping
It talks about volts and storage of volts but it is storing amps as well. It chargest practically instalntly and discharges instantly. Back when I sold these things, they were far more expensive and didnt have the volt meters on them. I searched for 1 fard as that is a more common size in car audio. I would imagine half fards are cheaper and smaller, but its not like this thing is monsterously huge.
edit: If THD is a problem and we are going over 60 hz, then I suggest connecting the lights to a APC UPS battery unit. It will condition the line so that anything over 60 hz will not pass back through it to the socket in the wall.
Monsi are you saying to run the drivers off of the APC? How much would something like that cost for this type of application?
I haven't heard of anyone yet running into issues of not getting enough amperage draw to fire up the drivers. In my case at work if I run into an issue with a a/c unit or fridge that's not getting enough kick to fire up the compressor then the first thing I'll do is check the capacitor. If the value of the capacitor tests within range and there's nothing wrong with it then I'll usually just throw a hard start on there and see what happens. All a hard start is, is simply just another capacitor hooked up on the main capacitor. And then the combined values of both 9 times out of 10 will typically provide enough kick to get the motor running. If it doesn't then I know there are other issues and have to start looking at the compressor itself.
When it comes to running several ELN drivers the inrush really would be the least of my concerns. Even though the amperage draw is high on start up it only lasts for a fraction of a second. And if it was too much then it would simply just trip the breaker and you'd have to figure something else out. I have tools in the garage that pull more amps then these things do when their running but that doesn't really stop me from running them. But then again they also don't produce much harmonic distortion either when in operation.
You're a computer guy so let me ask you a hypothetical question. Say you were running a business out of your house and decided you wanted to set up a network. So you go ahead and clean out a spare bead room or den for your network. Say you wanted to hook up 12 computers, each with their own power supply on the same circuit in that room. Maybe you even have a few small things on the circuit as well like a small fan to keep yourself cool and possibly a little desk lamp or two, maybe even a scanner/fax/copy machine. Would you foresee any problems with doing this from your personal experiences in your field? Obviously power supplies differ, some are linear some non linear, some with pfc capabilities and some with out. But in general, do you think that would be wise to do so without taking specific measures in regards to your household circuitry?
 
monsinour

monsinour

Active Member
My house is over 100 years old and I am sure the wiring is all original. I wouldnt do 12 PCs with accessories on one circut in a new house. 2 circuts would be fine and each PC would be plugged into an APC BackUPS office 450 or so. In the corporate offices that I have worked in, the floors were divided into 4 circuts and each one had around 30 PCs with accessories on them. The only exception to this was the DataCenter on the 13th floor at a former employer. That floor had 25 circuts and each one in the data center powered around 4 servers. There may have been some cases where one circut powered more and I know there was one dedicated circut to run the PeopleSoft server. At the time it was the most advanced server ever built. Compaq, back when they were compaq and not HP, built the server special for our company. It was the first 8 way xeon processor server. It was a monster of a box and was lighting fast. Once peoplesoft was loaded on it, it came to a crawl, LOL. I am sure they were better quality than what we might in our homes, but with line conditioners on the PCs etal., it doesnt effect the power wiring that much. BTW, keep any kind of electrial motors off of the same surge strip as a PC (the fan mentioned) as the motor will create interference with the PC and networking cabling regardless of the shielding. The APC units will ensure a regulated draw from the outlet and will condition the noise (THD) before putting it back onto the house wiring as well as condition the noise going to the PCs. In the suggestion mentioned, think of the APC UPS as a filter to keep the 'noise' out of the equation. Even a cheap $45 unit would do as you dont really need the battery power.
 
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