LFS Running Copper

[morayeels]

A week or so ago I started a thread on a LFS running copper in theire systems and I was not trying to bash them but I wanted everyone to be aware of the issue. Shops should let there customers know that they are running copper in their thank and it would not hurt to post flyers through out the shop. Not every one know that you should not put water in your tank from your LFS. You never know what in the water. So If I made some people mad I did not mean it. I was just making people aware and I hope when purchasing a fish they might ask the shop if they run copper in their tanks.

 

[ejensen]

I wished all LFS ran copper in some of there tanks. Most fish do just fine with copper. They have so many fish that come threw thier tanks that it is impossible for them to avoid ick to go around and kill all the life stock.

 

[stanlalee]

You should be glad they do. Good pet stores either quarantine everything before selling it or run seperate systems for fish and inverts with the fish system profilacticly medicated. with the amount of stock that enters and leaves the system why would you want it any other way. Perhaps they need to tell some people not to use the bag water but you shouldn't use that regardless. Even if you did add it copper has to reach a therapeutic level before it will kill inverts. a bag of fish water at therapeutic levels wont do it. I had my quarantine tank at a constant .03 or whatever seachem culpramine recommends and many amphipods survived past the quarantine period.

 

[murph]

I would have to agree. Unfortunately many people have been conditioned to resist the use of any chemical in this hobby no matter how sound the logic or lifesaving the substance might be.
Puts me to mind of the DDT ban. Since its across the board ban the rate of malaria caused deaths in Africa are pretty much back where they were before ddts use. The misuse of this chemical and its environmental damage was blamed on the west (coad word for the United States) of course after its ban the rise in malaria deaths are also the fault of the west.
Ever get that damned if you do damned if you don't feeling. Here are some interesting things cut and paste from a site I cant link here.
Environmental Laws: Currently, one third of all federal laws are devoted to the protection of the environment. In 1997, the Environmental Protection Agency set new records by assessing $264.4 million in fines from 704 civil and criminal cases referred to the Justice Department. In addition, U.S. federal law identifies as criminal fully 10,000 activities, based on 3,000 federal criminal laws.
Safe Water: Americans consume 110 million gallons of water every day! Utilities routinely perform several thousand tests annually to insure safe drinking quality. Chlorine, a chemical which Greenpeace wants banned, is essential to the purification of water and the manufacture of countless life-saving chemicals.
Clean Air: The air in U.S. cities has improved significantly. Airborne lead has decreased by 89%, carbon monoxide by 37%, sulfur dioxide by 26%, and ground level ozone has dropped 21%, from 1984 to 1993. The Environmental Protection Agency, however, has pushed through more stringent air quality standards that even includes "dust."
Radiation Exposure: Natural sources, not man-made, account for upwards of 80% of exposure. Sources of radiation include Radon gas ( 55% ), outer space ( 8% ), rocks and soil ( 8% ).
DDT and Pesticides: A 1989 health study reported in the American Journal of Public Health revealed no link between cancer risks and DDT. The banning of DDT has led to a dramatic increase in the mosquito-borne disease of malaria. Insect and rodent pests not only destroy one third of all the world's food each year, but are also the primary vectors of a wide variety of diseases. The United Nations not only banned DDT, but is now trying to ban eleven other pesticides and herbicides.

 

[searanch]

I agree copper should never be used onless they need it for treatment when they are sick reguardless if the fish is able to handel it you have to remember that even if they look ok that dosent mean they are ok the #1 mistake is careless use of a producked or being added to a new system because of how stresst out to begin with a little cober could easly kill the animale.

 

[skipperdz]

i was looking at a christmas wrasse my lfs had and they told me they didnt want anyone to buy out of their tanks that were marked, since they were treating ich. and showed me the tanks that were marked so i knew not to look in there. good to know not all lfs are out to just make a buck.

 

[sepulatian]

Many LFS's run copper in their FO systems. The inverts are on a seperate line. This is to reduce the amount of parasites in the system. Yet another reason not to add LFS water to your tank. The amount of copper running through is not enough to kill all parasites. Please don't think that it is.

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by searanch
I agree copper should never be used onless they need it for treatment when they are sick reguardless if the fish is able to handel it you have to remember that even if they look ok that dosent mean they are ok the #1 mistake is careless use of a producked or being added to a new system because of how stresst out to begin with a little cober could easly kill the animale.
that may be a good practice for a home aquarist or a shop that quarantines ALL there fish before putting them in their display tanks for sale but for the typical shop that gets a large shipment in every tuesday with livestock from all different sources and dumps them directly in the tank some profilactic measures are in order. As stated its not a cure all but its better than just dumping 50 new fish in their system every week and hoping nothing happens.

 

[murph]

Originally Posted by Stanlalee
that may be a good practice for a home aquarist or a shop that quarantines ALL there fish before putting them in their display tanks for sale but for the typical shop that gets a large shipment in every tuesday with livestock from all different sources and dumps them directly in the tank some profilactic measures are in order. As stated its not a cure all but its better than just dumping 50 new fish in their system every week and hoping nothing happens.
Exactly. Curators of large commercial displays copper everything that can handle the chemical and usually toss other chemicals into the equation. They simply cant risk it otherwise.
I agree that there are a few species commonly sold that should not be exposed but even at the hobbyist level the hassle of treatment and risk of cross contamination during QT from fish purchased from tanks without a therapeutic levels of copper just ain't worth it.

 

[undulated guy]

Originally Posted by Murph
I would have to agree. Unfortunately many people have been conditioned to resist the use of any chemical in this hobby no matter how sound the logic or lifesaving the substance might be.
Puts me to mind of the DDT ban. Since its across the board ban the rate of malaria caused deaths in Africa are pretty much back where they were before ddts use. The misuse of this chemical and its environmental damage was blamed on the west (coad word for the United States) of course after its ban the rise in malaria deaths are also the fault of the west.
Ever get that damned if you do damned if you don't feeling. Here are some interesting things cut and paste from a site I cant link here.
Environmental Laws: Currently, one third of all federal laws are devoted to the protection of the environment. In 1997, the Environmental Protection Agency set new records by assessing $264.4 million in fines from 704 civil and criminal cases referred to the Justice Department. In addition, U.S. federal law identifies as criminal fully 10,000 activities, based on 3,000 federal criminal laws.
Safe Water: Americans consume 110 million gallons of water every day! Utilities routinely perform several thousand tests annually to insure safe drinking quality. Chlorine, a chemical which Greenpeace wants banned, is essential to the purification of water and the manufacture of countless life-saving chemicals.
Clean Air: The air in U.S. cities has improved significantly. Airborne lead has decreased by 89%, carbon monoxide by 37%, sulfur dioxide by 26%, and ground level ozone has dropped 21%, from 1984 to 1993. The Environmental Protection Agency, however, has pushed through more stringent air quality standards that even includes "dust."
Radiation Exposure: Natural sources, not man-made, account for upwards of 80% of exposure. Sources of radiation include Radon gas ( 55% ), outer space ( 8% ), rocks and soil ( 8% ).
DDT and Pesticides: A 1989 health study reported in the American Journal of Public Health revealed no link between cancer risks and DDT. The banning of DDT has led to a dramatic increase in the mosquito-borne disease of malaria. Insect and rodent pests not only destroy one third of all the world's food each year, but are also the primary vectors of a wide variety of diseases. The United Nations not only banned DDT, but is now trying to ban eleven other pesticides and herbicides.
this is not a farmers website DDT has nothing to do with the fact that LFS's even though its ok to run copper dont tell people that they are running it. LFS's should educate people who buy fish about proper acclamation and not introducing other water into you fish tank. pesticides and radiation is nothing like fish meds.