Liquid Cal. Or Kalk Drip??
- Thread starter kingspade
- Start date
jamie814
Member
Kalk is a far better way to go not only does it add better calcium it helps keep the ph stable becasue it has a very high ph something like 14 if I am correct. And most peple ahve problems with low ph. It needs to be added to a high flow area of the sump or dripped directly into the skimmer it can also precipitate phosphates out of the water when used with a skimmer which is also a plus. Kalk and essential elements is all you should need. (for now) I use Kent marine for both. My sump has a 2.5 gallon tank built in it that uses a float valve to topoff with kalk water at the same rate as the water evaporates. Works great.
db
Member
Kalkwasser will help you keep your ca, alk, and ph stable as stated above. You will still need to a have some sort of two part additive to raise the levels when they fall. I would suggest B-Ionic because it also contains essential elements. You could go with B-Ionic alone if you tank is new and isn't consuming much alk and ca. I use both kalk and B-Ionic on my sps reef.
nm reef
Active Member
Actually....kalk does little to nothing to "raise" calcium levels but it is very effective at "maintaining" established calcium levels.
First step would be to test your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/ph to see where they are and if they are stable.
Second step would be to establish a suppliment schedule to elevate your levels if there is a need to do so.Most typical marine systems can do fine just with water changes if there is no demand on the system.
Third step...in conjunction with step two...is to understand the need/requirement for establishing levels of calcium/alkalinity...and how to dose the selected suppliments in order to achieve desired levels.
Fourth...after establishing desired levels kalk could be used in top off water to assist in maintaining those established levels.
Thats a short version....let me ask you....what size tank do you have? What are your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/PH/magnesium?
What corals do you keep? Do you have problems maintaining your levels? What additives do you use and why?
First step would be to test your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/ph to see where they are and if they are stable.
Second step would be to establish a suppliment schedule to elevate your levels if there is a need to do so.Most typical marine systems can do fine just with water changes if there is no demand on the system.
Third step...in conjunction with step two...is to understand the need/requirement for establishing levels of calcium/alkalinity...and how to dose the selected suppliments in order to achieve desired levels.
Fourth...after establishing desired levels kalk could be used in top off water to assist in maintaining those established levels.
Thats a short version....let me ask you....what size tank do you have? What are your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/PH/magnesium?
What corals do you keep? Do you have problems maintaining your levels? What additives do you use and why?
stanlalee
Active Member
For raising calcium definately liquid calcium. Kalk isn't for "raising" calcium and in order for it to do so you may spike your pH. From what I understand it is mostly to be used with top off water (used to replace evaporated water) to maintain pH and/or to chemically control excessive C02 build up (which would be better dealt with by circulation).
kingspade
Member
NM REEF: i have a 125rr with about 180lbs of live rock, 240lbs od bahama oolite arag-alive sand, 3x150w HQI 4 96w actinic, 4 seio M1500 powerheads, 40 fallon sump/fuge, ASM G3 skimmer, Mag18 return. i just set the tank up last wednesday with water and rock from my previous non drilled 125, sand was new. i dont have a calcium, alkalinity, or magnesium test kit yet, just the basic test kits right now. and i hate getting mixed answers, can i just get one very educated correct answer for the best thing for me to do and to have on hand??? this is a brand new tank that will have no SPS for a while, softies and LPS mostly till i get more experience. there is nothing in my tank now, i just need GOOD ADVICE for the RIGT starting point for me and what i will need to have right away so im not treading water when im waitong for shipping on an item that i should have had on hand. thank you
jumpfrog
Active Member
Here's my shot at a simple answer and please don't think of it as a smart alek answer.
Don't add anything to the tank you cannot test for. A calcium, KH, ph test kit is essential. Once things are up and and running and you have the animals in the tank you plant to add for awhile, test those levels. If they are in acceptable ranges don't worry about it. Test regulary and you will see a pattern develop. Then you supplement to maintain your levels. If you don't plan to use calcium loving animals ,sps clams, you should be fine with regular water changes and maybe a two part to keep you where you want.
I hope that helps and good luck!
Don't add anything to the tank you cannot test for. A calcium, KH, ph test kit is essential. Once things are up and and running and you have the animals in the tank you plant to add for awhile, test those levels. If they are in acceptable ranges don't worry about it. Test regulary and you will see a pattern develop. Then you supplement to maintain your levels. If you don't plan to use calcium loving animals ,sps clams, you should be fine with regular water changes and maybe a two part to keep you where you want.
I hope that helps and good luck!
kingspade
Member
i do plan to get the test kits i need ie. calcium, phos, alk. i just know i dont need them as of yet since there are no inhabitants in there, but i do want to know what i should have on hand. like i said i dont plan to have SPS right away, i would however like to have a clam or 2 and anemones, so is there atleast some supplements that you would reccomend to have on hand? the reason i am so interested to know is because my LFS has crap for anything that has to do with reef tanks so i will have to pretty much order everything and if i end up needing something i dont want to have to wait for it to be shipped just incase it ends up being imparative that i add something. just the basic supplements that i should have on hand is all i am asking about. thank you very much for your reply.
jumpfrog
Active Member
That makes sense. It's tough when you don't have a ready source. Based on your stocking plan I don't think you have to worry about a bunch of supplements. Your consistent water changes should provide most everything you need. If there is one recommendation I would make it would be a good two part like B-Ionic. When you test your alk and calcium and you find it low, the two part will help you to keep it stabilized. Most everything else out there is a gimmick of some sort. If you go with high calcium consuming animals (and a lot of them) then you will need to monitor your magnesium and strontium levels. You have plenty of time to worry about those as it seems you're taking a patient approach. For example, my 125RR has mostly softies and a handfull of LPS. I find that a 20% water change every two weeks and dosing 2 part 3 times a week keeps me right where I need to be. Everything is thriving.
Here is my tank to give you an idea. Good luck and I hope this helps.
Here is my tank to give you an idea. Good luck and I hope this helps.
kingspade
Member
how do you keep you water so damn clear?? i having a really tough time getting my sand to quit blowing which is making my water look hazy. i also have 4 seio 1500's running in there. i keep trying to piont them in different directions but pretty much no matter where they poin i get sandstorms. also where do i get the B-Ionic from??
azocean709
Member
Originally Posted by NM reef
Actually....kalk does little to nothing to "raise" calcium levels but it is very effective at "maintaining" established calcium levels.
First step would be to test your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/ph to see where they are and if they are stable.
Second step would be to establish a suppliment schedule to elevate your levels if there is a need to do so.Most typical marine systems can do fine just with water changes if there is no demand on the system.
Third step...in conjunction with step two...is to understand the need/requirement for establishing levels of calcium/alkalinity...and how to dose the selected suppliments in order to achieve desired levels.
Fourth...after establishing desired levels kalk could be used in top off water to assist in maintaining those established levels.
Thats a short version....let me ask you....what size tank do you have? What are your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/PH/magnesium?
What corals do you keep? Do you have problems maintaining your levels? What additives do you use and why?
no disrespect...im just trying to clarify.....you say calcium levels do not raise with Kalkwasser....i disagree. when i started dripping kalk, my level of calcium was 400 . i went by the instruction of another member of this site to start at 1 tspn per gallon for a starting point...i tested my water ever day at the same time. and came up with the same relsults for the first 6 days. i have a 3 gallon resivior.....my levels remained the same. the next week, i added 4 tspns, levels rose to 420 ph 8.3, alk 4 meg/l. i wanted it alittle higher <calcium> so the next batch i put 5 tsps in 3 gal. ....my level rose to 450 cal. 4.4 alk, and ph held at 8.3. and has been that way for months. I add no other additives but strontium . no calcium additives at all. now if kalkwasser doesnt "raise" calcium....then what is? I tested the 3 gallons of water with the kalk in it alone...and the calcium is up around 1,000 ppm if i did my math correctly...If you are correct in what you say, and Kalk doesnt raise your calcium level, then i should be able to just dump that 3 gallons of Kalk mix in my fuge and not drip it slowly and everything should be the same? I find that to be very untrue. I thought Maybe i am just misuderstanding what you are saying...but I went back and read it again...and it is very clear. and I fully disagree. I understand that your water perms, must be good before the start of dripping Kalk, but It WILL raise your calcium levels. It will raise them to the point of if you put too much in the mix and drip it fast, or just dump it in your tank that it will demolish your tank. I also add a little vinegar to my kalk mix...but just a tad...to keep it at the exact level that i want. I also found out when i started the whole vinegar thing that it will crash a tank in a hurry too with some added bad crap ya don't want. as i said...I mean no disrespect.. I know your a mod and all...but i totally disagree in what you say.
Actually....kalk does little to nothing to "raise" calcium levels but it is very effective at "maintaining" established calcium levels.
First step would be to test your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/ph to see where they are and if they are stable.
Second step would be to establish a suppliment schedule to elevate your levels if there is a need to do so.Most typical marine systems can do fine just with water changes if there is no demand on the system.
Third step...in conjunction with step two...is to understand the need/requirement for establishing levels of calcium/alkalinity...and how to dose the selected suppliments in order to achieve desired levels.
Fourth...after establishing desired levels kalk could be used in top off water to assist in maintaining those established levels.
Thats a short version....let me ask you....what size tank do you have? What are your current levels of calcium/alkalinity/PH/magnesium?
What corals do you keep? Do you have problems maintaining your levels? What additives do you use and why?
no disrespect...im just trying to clarify.....you say calcium levels do not raise with Kalkwasser....i disagree. when i started dripping kalk, my level of calcium was 400 . i went by the instruction of another member of this site to start at 1 tspn per gallon for a starting point...i tested my water ever day at the same time. and came up with the same relsults for the first 6 days. i have a 3 gallon resivior.....my levels remained the same. the next week, i added 4 tspns, levels rose to 420 ph 8.3, alk 4 meg/l. i wanted it alittle higher <calcium> so the next batch i put 5 tsps in 3 gal. ....my level rose to 450 cal. 4.4 alk, and ph held at 8.3. and has been that way for months. I add no other additives but strontium . no calcium additives at all. now if kalkwasser doesnt "raise" calcium....then what is? I tested the 3 gallons of water with the kalk in it alone...and the calcium is up around 1,000 ppm if i did my math correctly...If you are correct in what you say, and Kalk doesnt raise your calcium level, then i should be able to just dump that 3 gallons of Kalk mix in my fuge and not drip it slowly and everything should be the same? I find that to be very untrue. I thought Maybe i am just misuderstanding what you are saying...but I went back and read it again...and it is very clear. and I fully disagree. I understand that your water perms, must be good before the start of dripping Kalk, but It WILL raise your calcium levels. It will raise them to the point of if you put too much in the mix and drip it fast, or just dump it in your tank that it will demolish your tank. I also add a little vinegar to my kalk mix...but just a tad...to keep it at the exact level that i want. I also found out when i started the whole vinegar thing that it will crash a tank in a hurry too with some added bad crap ya don't want. as i said...I mean no disrespect.. I know your a mod and all...but i totally disagree in what you say.
stanlalee
Active Member
Originally Posted by AzOcean709
no disrespect...im just trying to clarify.....you say calcium levels do not raise with Kalkwasser....i disagree. when i started dripping kalk, my level of calcium was 400 . i went by the instruction of another member of this site to start at 1 tspn per gallon for a starting point...i tested my water ever day at the same time. and came up with the same relsults for the first 6 days. i have a 3 gallon resivior.....my levels remained the same. the next week, i added 4 tspns, levels rose to 420 ph 8.3, alk 4 meg/l. i wanted it alittle higher <calcium> so the next batch i put 5 tsps in 3 gal. ....my level rose to 450 cal. 4.4 alk, and ph held at 8.3. and has been that way for months. I add no other additives but strontium . no calcium additives at all. now if kalkwasser doesnt "raise" calcium....then what is? I tested the 3 gallons of water with the kalk in it alone...and the calcium is up around 1,000 ppm if i did my math correctly...If you are correct in what you say, and Kalk doesnt raise your calcium level, then i should be able to just dump that 3 gallons of Kalk mix in my fuge and not drip it slowly and everything should be the same? I find that to be very untrue. I thought Maybe i am just misuderstanding what you are saying...but I went back and read it again...and it is very clear. and I fully disagree. I understand that your water perms, must be good before the start of dripping Kalk, but It WILL raise your calcium levels. It will raise them to the point of if you put too much in the mix and drip it fast, or just dump it in your tank that it will demolish your tank. I also add a little vinegar to my kalk mix...but just a tad...to keep it at the exact level that i want. I also found out when i started the whole vinegar thing that it will crash a tank in a hurry too with some added bad crap ya don't want. as i said...I mean no disrespect.. I know your a mod and all...but i totally disagree in what you say.
although he said Kalk does little to nothing to raise calcium you need to put the amount of dosing you did with Kalk in perspective or comparison to if you did the same thing with liquid calcium supplement. For example you said you started with 1 tsp per gallon for 6 days with no changes and then went to 4tsp for a 20ppm increase. Then you went up a little more for another moderate increase. Now do you realize 1 tsp of a typical liquid calcium supplement like Kent Liquid calcium is enough to dose50 gallons of water with none of the risk associated with overdosing Kalk besides too high calcium levels. I garauntee you if you dosed 1tsp per 50gallons (compared to your 1tsp per gallon) over a 6 day period with a starting calcium of 400 by the end of 6 days your calcium would be well beyond desireable unless you had a high demand for calcium in your tank. You didn't specify if you tank had a high demand for calcium but if it were a rapidly depleting tank how much more would you be willing to dose just to raise calcium (as opposed to maintaining it like your initial dose was doing). With some tanks you wont be able to raise calcium enough with Kalk without overdosing/other side effects. Your tank doesn't seem to have that problem.
jamie814
Member
Kalkawasser is sold as a calcium supplement to raise and maintain calcium and PH levels and most reefers can get by just fine without using any other calcium supplement with kalk. It really depends on how strong you mix the solution. And if you are running a heavy coral load mainly SPS's, Clams ect you may need more than just kalkawasser. In the 210 gallon that I had set up with lots of softies I never had problems maintaing calcium levels with just kalkawasser and superbuffer to maintain alkalinity. :happyfish
azocean709
Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
although he said Kalk does little to nothing to raise calcium you need to put the amount of dosing you did with Kalk in perspective or comparison to if you did the same thing with liquid calcium supplement. For example you said you started with 1 tsp per gallon for 6 days with no changes and then went to 4tsp for a 20ppm increase. Then you went up a little more for another moderate increase. Now do you realize 1 tsp of a typical liquid calcium supplement like Kent Liquid calcium is enough to dose50 gallons of water with none of the risk associated with overdosing Kalk besides too high calcium levels. I garauntee you if you dosed 1tsp per 50gallons (compared to your 1tsp per gallon) over a 6 day period with a starting calcium of 400 by the end of 6 days your calcium would be well beyond desireable unless you had a high demand for calcium in your tank. You didn't specify if you tank had a high demand for calcium but if it were a rapidly depleting tank how much more would you be willing to dose just to raise calcium (as opposed to maintaining it like your initial dose was doing). With some tanks you wont be able to raise calcium enough with Kalk without overdosing/other side effects. Your tank doesn't seem to have that problem.
Ok...that makes sense..I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT>>>lol.
jumpfrog
Active Member
Sorry, it took a few days before I could get back to this site. Thanks for the complement on the clarity but I'm not sure I have a specific answer. Just running some carbon in a canister filter. The rest of the system is just a normal sump with a skimmer and a refugium.
If sand is blowing around it may be the placement of the your power filters. Then again, sand will tend to move around more in a new tank. Once the bacteria has a good hold on the sand, the sand will fall down and tend to stay down better. It may just be a matter of getting the tank more biologically mature.
The ESV B-Ionic is available from most online fish stores. Usually goes for around $22 for both bottles. That lasts me about 2 months. My LFS will do refills for $11.00 if I buy the originals from him. Great customer service there.
Good Luck!
If sand is blowing around it may be the placement of the your power filters. Then again, sand will tend to move around more in a new tank. Once the bacteria has a good hold on the sand, the sand will fall down and tend to stay down better. It may just be a matter of getting the tank more biologically mature.
The ESV B-Ionic is available from most online fish stores. Usually goes for around $22 for both bottles. That lasts me about 2 months. My LFS will do refills for $11.00 if I buy the originals from him. Great customer service there.
Good Luck!